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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Backfiring please help /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1087407562 Message started by Elizabeth on 06/16/04 at 10:39:22 |
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Title: Backfiring please help Post by Elizabeth on 06/16/04 at 10:39:22 ??? My husband got me a 1999 Savage this past week. My problem is it is backfiring when I let off the throttle to shift and when I shut it down. We took it to a local Suzuki shop yesterday and the service guy there seems to think it is the baffels and told us to order a new pipe. He also said it seems to sound louder than it should, so husband ordered a Jaradine (?) but is not convinced that is it for sure. The bike has power when I ride it it is just that the backfiring is sooo anoying. Can anyone help us with a solution. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by jendesigner on 06/16/04 at 13:27:51 Savages backfire! If you get the Jardine and rejet the carb that will fix it. They always backfire when you turn them off, they run very lean. They come from the factory that way because of the EPA regulations. The service guy should have known this. They have always been this way. The previous owner may have punched a hole in the baffle so maybe that's why he said it was louder than normal. By the way the Jardine slip-on pipe is much louder than the stock pipe. Sounds much better to me. If it's jetted correct you will like the increase of sound and an increase in power, especially in the mid range. I have a Raask drag pipe on my bike and I love it. If you want to see what it looks like check out http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jendesigner/album?.tok=phh2bPBBkb4bi94S&.dir=/4fb4&.src=ph Congratualtions on your bike! It's a great bike! |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Elizabeth on 06/16/04 at 14:00:41 Did you have your carb rejetted by someone or is this something you can do on your own? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by jendesigner on 06/16/04 at 14:08:37 I had my bike in for some other things so I brought them the pipe and they rejetted it. If you are handy it seems easy enough to do. Do you have a Clymers manual? If not, that should be your first purchase for the bike. There are plenty of people who rejetted who could help you. I'm helping a friend put a Harley muffler on her Savage this weekend, so I will have some experience after that. Go to http://www.jonline.org/savage/ and check out his How-to section. He just added a Jardin slip-on. You will find that Savage owners are very helpful. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 06/16/04 at 14:33:40 The service guy doesn't know what he's talking about and it will rip you off buying a new pipe (especially for a '99). It will still backfire. As Jen said, they have done that since about 1995 when the carbs were changed. It is a jetting thing. Won't cause any problems for you, but it is annoying for some. It is also easy to fix. Also read an article in Rider magazine today that explained how to make changes to the idle mixture for the backfiring problem too. Maybe the service guys should start reading more. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 06/22/04 at 14:18:43 I subscribe to Rider magazine, and I can't remember where I got the first issue (maybe from a dealer's mailing list)....anyway, it is from a May edition so it may be hard to find. Basically Rider only echos the same fix that you'll read in all the Savage forums. The later year Savages backfire...end of story. It is because of the big single engine and changes made to satisfy the EPA requirements. They leaned that puppy out....plain and simple. To get rid of them, carefully drill out the brass plug on the right side of the carb and adjust the idle mixture screw. This is the part mentioned in the Rider magazine. This should help some of the closed throttle backfires. For the other backfires, go to any Jap bike shop and ask for a #152 main jet for a Mikuni BS40 carb. This will replace the #145 in yours. (That should set you back about $3 or 4 bucks.) The older Savages had a #155 but the carb was different too.....you will immediately notice a different tone in the exhaust, and when you ride there will be more mid range power. As well, 95% of the backfires will be gone for good..... I am assuming that you have a stock exhaust, so I don't recommend much more change for now. Let me know how you do. Ride safe. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 06/22/04 at 14:30:35 Oh yeah, if you get the Jardine (your husband is right to be wary), you might want to get a #155 main jet instead. Whatever you do...do the rejetting at the same time that you change the exhaust....you run a real good chance of discoloring your new pipe if you don't. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Elizabeth on 06/22/04 at 20:23:26 I've heard of ones using a #150 and you mention a #152. I got a #150 today but am sure if a #152 is better I can get one of those. Which one is the best for the stock pipe? I am not changing right now. Would like to know the best one before I tear it apart. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Bob on 06/22/04 at 22:01:39 I just bought a new 2004 and it only puffed a little when shutting off or once and a while a medium puff on deceleration. at about 1000 miles the stock muffler develope a leak in the inner sleave near where the heat shield hooks on. I could hear the leak and that's when the loud and often backfiring really became a problem. I replaced the muffler with a SuperTrapp 4 inch megaphone slash cut. The real easy and cheapest fix is to remove that little plastic washer that holds the needle down. Backfires are completely gone, ridability or smoothness is way up, and response will jerk your head off. Acceleration is like my old Intruder! No rejetting was needed with the SuperTrapp with the included 8 discs. Sound is fantastic and deep. amy 2004 California model has a 155 main. That idle screw that was covered was just about right on. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Elizabeth on 06/23/04 at 09:10:48 We have checked for leaks and there are none. Backfires mostly between 2, 3 and sometimes 4th. When I roll off it dies on my. It acts like it is getting no gas but all air. The washer has already been removed by a previous owner. We have put in a new battery and ordered a new pod filter. I will put in a larger jet if it is only a #145 today. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by AL_DOWN_UNDER on 06/24/04 at 23:27:04 check fuel line hose clamps could be sucking air . dont forget to check header pipe gasket : |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Elizabeth on 06/25/04 at 08:15:24 Took the carb back apart because it was puking gas out the overflow. Was a steady flow. The float is bad. Has a crack in one side. Soo had order a new one will be in on Tuesday. Also I think a previous owner tried to get the pilot jet out to check and stripped it. It goes in on Wed to be looked at. I will be checking the gasket later because if a new one is needed it will likely have to be ordered since the local Suzuki shop has nothing in stock for this bike. Almost feels link in the end the cost won't be much below the cost of a new one.. very disapointing for a first bike to say the least at this point. We haven't had it but for 2 weeks this Sunday. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by maria on 06/27/04 at 08:57:05 my bike backfires a lot especially when i shut down the throttle to brake on hills (quite a lot around here) - i have learnt to live with it - it used to backfire when i cut it off when i stopped, bug shot of flames and a thunder crack of a backfire but she doesn't do that anymore. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 06/28/04 at 14:02:36 Sounds like the previous owner did a little "learning" on your bike. Don't be too hard on the dealer (I'm saying that?). None of them stock a lot of parts anymore. Years ago you could walk in and ask for a simple bolt, and dig through a box to find it...now a days, you have to order those too. Was it puking gas when the bike was off? If so then you had the petcock turned to the PRI position. If it is in the ON or RES position the petcock is vacuum controlled and shuts off with the engine. That doesn't change the cracked float, but it shouldn't leak (puke much) when the engine is off :o) Elizabeth wrote:
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 06/28/04 at 14:08:03 Interesting :o) Must be some kind of "parental controls" going on....in my last post, I tried to use the correct name for the fuel "valve" on the tank, and it was changed to "petthingy"....cute. Let's try this...p,e:t*c-o+c_k :P |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Elizabeth on 06/28/04 at 17:30:33 The last owner bought from a dealer. I guess it had been a trade in. The last owner didn't even put 200 miles on it. Was his first bike he said and did not know much about it. It only puked gas when it was on. It had to have been the float because hubby sealed the crack and it was fine. The new one should be in tomorrow. I think so far I have put 200 miles on it so far and have only had it for 2 weeks. Took it out yesterday for about 50 miles and it ran much better than before. So whatever I have been doing seems to be working. I have changed the air filter, battery, main jet and adjustment screw has been turned out 1 1-2 turns. I also put in a new header pipe gasket. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 06/29/04 at 13:55:46 Sounds like you've got a handle on the situation. Did you ever install the Jardine? (Time to dry out, just rode home in a thunderstorm :o) |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by gitarzan on 07/02/04 at 20:50:10 Quote:
I saw that too. ;D When I saw the references to petcock I thought that either it was an inside joke or that some folks here were so uptight their fannys squeaked. I tested a few other words, they do it too. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by maria on 07/09/04 at 19:10:37 now talking about backfiring - she has gone back to huge backfires, massive KERPANGS!! i think it's the timing and she sounds seriously tappetty |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/10/04 at 06:20:06 maria wrote:
Now, back to the beginning...what have you changed? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/10/04 at 06:22:08 maria wrote:
BTW - the timing is "fixed", unless you have opened the engine and done something in there. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by sunny on 07/16/04 at 14:33:15 Greg_650 wrote:
my incredibly neglected and abused 97 came to me with a jardine pipe but the standard jet. other than the visual problem of discoloration, can using the standard jet cause other problems? i'm not sure if the white spacer is even still in the carb as it had been taken apart and put back together by someone who did not know what they were doing, before i got it. needless to say it didn't run at first. and the person who fixed it for me didn't recall seeing a spacer when i asked him about it. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/17/04 at 04:33:14 First, it might be simpler if you read my last post about the Raask pipe..... Now, let's start over.... Is the Jardine muffler or header pipe discolored now? Do you still have backfires? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by sunny on 07/19/04 at 12:22:31 Greg_650 wrote:
done. Quote:
1. did the airmix screw adjustment on the carburetor according to the heise site last weekend. the massive backfires i had are now little puffs on shutting down. there are still backfires of small to medium size on deceleration. 2. yes there is a spot of discoloration. we had thought it was due to a small fire. 3. occassionally the engine(but not electrical) will die if i pull in the clutch while in fourth gear as i decelerate. not regularly though. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/19/04 at 13:34:49 sunny wrote:
1. Good. That one is done. 2. Yes, a little fire...actually hot exhaust. But it is hotter than the pipe was engineered. Is the discoloration on the pipe up by the engine or at the beginning of the Jardine? 3. Still a stock main jet (#145)? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by sunny on 07/19/04 at 13:56:27 Greg_650 wrote:
at the beginning of the jardine IF the jardine begins directly below the stock airbox cover. Quote:
yes. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by atiger on 07/19/04 at 14:08:06 I bought my 2002 Suzuki from a guy who had the Jardine pipe put on but didn't change the jetting. The pipe is discolored (bike has 2200 miles on it). I have had bike for two weeks and so far it only seems to backfire when I shut down the engine, not while riding. Should I get the jet changed? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Savage_Rob on 07/19/04 at 14:20:18 Mine is a 98 and, so far as everything else I've seen, is totally stock. I have not actually looked inside the carb yet though. Mine only backfires on shutdown, so I haven't been too worried. I may opt for rejetting later just for additional power but I always ride single (wife is terrified of bikes) so that's not really an issue either. I am more inclined to keep reading and learning before I do anything other than possibly adjust the idle. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/20/04 at 08:50:02 sunny wrote:
Thought so.... Get a #152.5 main jet, and pop that puppy in there. It is harder to get the bowl off the carb, than to change the jet, but you will immediately see the difference. Know where the jet is? Need pictures? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/20/04 at 08:51:43 atiger wrote:
Does it "pop, pop, pop" when changing gears or decelerating? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by sunny on 07/20/04 at 11:57:46 Greg_650 wrote:
thanks for the info greg! i'll get that jet ordered today. believe it or not, i can take it from here (in other words: have clymers manual, can dissassemble!) jean |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 07/20/04 at 12:06:23 sunny wrote:
The jet will cost you a hefty $3-4 and most dealers have it in stock....even a Harley dealer has Mikuni parts. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Susan on 09/14/04 at 06:25:51 I have a 2004 and just passed a 1000 miles. When I first got the bike, there were very few backfires more like little puffs. Recently backfires have increased. Several times when my husband was riding behind me, he actually saw flames. I have made no changes to the pipe or jetting and I bought the bike new. I thought it was a tank of bad gas as it started happening right after I gassed up. It did seem to get better after I cycled through that tank but it still happens with a greater frequency and intensity than before. Someone mentioned getting a leak in one of the posts in this thread. Could that cause the change? If so, how do I check for a leak? Any other ideas? Also, I have re-read this thread, and am curious what "sounds tappetty" means (see quote below): maria wrote:
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 09/15/04 at 02:59:10 Susan wrote:
Must be about time for your 1000 mile service check, eh? I don't believe that you'll really have that just because of bad gas The leaking that is referred to could be at the cylinder head gasket and the muffler clamp (fun to get to). These things will loosen up a bit after a while. Take a look down at the sight glass for the oil level and see if there is any black stuff on the engine case anywhere. That will happen when the clamp is loose. Also, when the engine is cold, check the tightness of the 2 bolts on the cylinder head end. Air leaks on the pipe can cause backfires. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Tony on 09/15/04 at 14:06:39 Get a #152.5 main jet, and pop that puppy in there. It is harder to get the bowl off the carb, than to change the jet, but you will immediately see the difference. Know where the jet is? Need pictures?[/quote] I have never worked on a carb before. Is this something a rookie should attempt? My 2005 s40 backfires on decel a lot and my pipes are already showing a good amount of blueing. I have also seen a good amount of messages regarding the removal of the spacer at the jet, how hard is this to do. Does anyone know of a website with a detailed description of the process from beggining to end? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Jon on 09/15/04 at 14:10:37 >My 2005 s40 backfires on decel a lot and my pipes are >already showing a good amount of blueing. I have >also seen a good amount of messages regarding the >removal of the spacer at the jet, how hard is this to do. Don't rejet, it's not necessary with the stock S40. E-me off list for info on removing the needle spacer. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 09/16/04 at 02:31:57 Jon wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know ??? so get out that 3rd pin and stick it in my voodoo doll. What makes your "Savage40" carb different from the Savage? No fair taking the discussion offlist, we need to know too. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by jbird on 09/16/04 at 16:00:28 man i can pull into the parking lot with other bikes shut mine down and it will back fire everytime never fails thats a savage love it and live with it |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by cowboylukas on 09/16/04 at 17:58:49 Yeah, last night my friend and I went over to a city strip near Lake Michigan and I was riding my 2004 Savage and he was riding his 2002 Savage. He has changed his exhaust and put on a Jardine and I still have the stock exhaust. Now that he has the Jardine on his bike hardly ever backfires and when it does it is not as noticeable as the stock muffler was. So anyway, we are driving and there are buildings all around us, I am leading and bike keeps backfiring--it was so sweet everyone walking on the streets and people in other vehicles were looking over at me. I can just only imagine what they are thinking...yup that is definately a Savage. I love the fact that these bikes backfire it is just cool. It is my first bike and I just turned over 5500 miles (I bought the bike in early April). :) |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Mr 650 on 09/16/04 at 18:52:04 Welcome Cowboy, Ya know if you practice, you can backfire on demand w/ just the right throttle opening. Something I have not tried- while deceling in high gear, little or no throttle,flip the kill switch off for a couple of seconds then flip it back on. BOOM! :o Long ago a pal mastered this technique w/ his Corvair, worked every time. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by cowboylukas on 09/16/04 at 20:47:40 I appreciate that Mr 650. I will have to give that one a shot. I can do it pretty well by decelling in high gear like you say, but I have not tried to hit the kill switch while doing that. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Paladin on 09/17/04 at 05:48:29 Mr 650 wrote:
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 09/18/04 at 05:47:55 Paladin wrote:
It does seem that we are regressing a bit doesn't it? Oh well, it all depends on your interpretation of the title of this topic ::) "Backfiring, please help (me do it better)".... |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by rkutzner on 10/18/04 at 17:32:17 Greg_650 wrote:
Just drove home my S40 today and that backfire at decel and turnoff is annoying. I have jetted my Z400 after several mods and this looks easier to get to so can you give more detail on adjusting the idle mixture screw? Which way is richer? FSM is on order ;D Also, is the plastic spacer thingy worth the effort or will this correct 99% of the problem? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 10/19/04 at 02:55:57 rkutzner wrote:
Counter-clockwise is richer. The best results that I've had were to replace the spacer with another one that is about 1/2 the stock thickness. When you take the carb apart, it will be interesting to see if there are any new changes. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Tim Rumple on 10/19/04 at 13:27:30 Hey guys, I have a '98 Savage with 3200 miles. I just bought it last month. It has a Supertrapp exhaust on it. The previous owner said when he had the exhaust put on, he had a new jet kit installed. The pipe is discolored and so is the Supertrapp. The bike backfires on deceleration and when I shut it off. I hear that removing the white spacer would help, But how do I know if it has been removed or not. Is there a way to tell what jet kit is in it too? I have no idea how to do these things. I am pretty mechanically inclined, but have never worked on a motorcycle. I was thinking of putting on a Jardine exhaust, should I get a jet kit and have this all done at the same time? Can I do this myself? What jet kit do I need? I know it's alot of questions and I appreciate the help! Thanks Tim |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 10/20/04 at 02:27:28 Being that you are mechanically inclined, the work shouldn't be any problem for you if you have a manual. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Walter Helmke on 03/09/05 at 14:26:57 I have a 2001 Savage LS650 and it backfires big time. It's kind of fun, but sometimes annoying. What I want to know is: if I take the white spacer out, should I also put in a #152.5 main jet in or do I do both? I would like to see an increase in power also. And should I replace that spacer with a half size spacer and what is half size? |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Nightrain on 03/09/05 at 14:33:26 I did both mods. I filed the spacer down to about half (eyeballed it) and used a #152.5 main. No more backfires except a really small "pfft!" when I kill the engine. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Savage_Rob on 03/09/05 at 18:47:37 Wow, this is a resurrected thread. Changing the air filter and exhaust will help too. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 03/11/05 at 12:39:01 Kinda like "Goundhog Day" with Bill Murray, too 8) |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by RG on 03/11/05 at 12:49:27 As someone else said, the Savage backfires. It is known for it. I have the Jardine and didn't rejet and it backfires more. I don't mind it at all. It reminds me I'm riding a Savage. There are some things you can do while riding to decrease the backfiring. When letting off your throttle, don't let it pop back, slowly let off. This will help tremendously. -RG |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by gitarzan on 03/11/05 at 12:57:05 This thread will never die because the issue is real. Myself, I too find it to be a trait of the bike, it kind of announces that you are there. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Savage_Rob on 03/11/05 at 13:23:26 And sometimes pedestrians duck! |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 03/11/05 at 13:56:53 gitarzan wrote:
Okay, is it an "issue" or a "trait". Don't issues imply a problem? It is definitely a trait of a stock bike, but it becomes an issue when the jetting needs to be corrected. |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by gitarzan on 03/11/05 at 18:34:22 You mean when the jetting is altered from meeting the Federal emission standards? Isn't Mt. St. Helens enough for you people? ;) |
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Title: Re: Backfiring please help Post by Greg_650 on 03/12/05 at 07:53:30 gitarzan wrote:
No, I mean when the jetting needs to be corrected because the mixture is different than the original factory setting due to other changes to the engine. That's when backfiring is an issue rather than a trait. Now, Mt. St. Helens has her own backfiring issue, but does seem to be in the process of rejetting ::) |
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