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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> What is a Liberal? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1754656544 Message started by Needles on 08/08/25 at 05:35:44 |
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Title: What is a Liberal? Post by Needles on 08/08/25 at 05:35:44 Ron Howard has summed up what many of us believe. Including me.... “I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does. Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines: 1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. PERIOD. 2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen. 3. I believe education should be affordable. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt. 4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist. 5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare. 6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live. 7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine. 8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you. 9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc). 10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation. 11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past. 12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized. 13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is the enforcement of present laws and enacting new, common sense gun regulations. Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine. 14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person? 15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else. 16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be? I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.” Ron Howard |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Eegore on 08/08/25 at 06:25:05 This was not authored by Ron Howard. The original text was posted on Lori Gallagher Witt's Facebook page in January 2018. It was plagiarized and posted on the website Medium, it has since been deleted but this is the ghost URL to cross-reference through archive. https://medium.com/@georgembrenckle/the-devil-is-in-the-details-4507c62daee8 This keeps being added to each year. Ron Howard has claimed no contribution to the content. https://www.google.com/search?q=Lori+Gallagher+Witt&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1027US1027&oq=Lori+Gallagher+Witt&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTExMDBqMGoxNagCCLACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Needles on 08/08/25 at 07:59:03 It's still true, no matter who said it. No one owns a fact. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Eegore on 08/08/25 at 09:30:57 It's still true, no matter who said it. No one owns a fact. It's still a fact that Ron Howard never said any of this. You are correct, no ownership is required for that fact to be true. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/25 at 09:47:27 11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past. There are some valid points in that list and many of them are contained within conservative platforms for years, but including number 11 disqualifies anyone posting this as being serious. If you’re obtuse enough to compare any US presidential administration with Nazi Germany or the Third Reich, you’re ignorant of reality. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Serowbot on 08/08/25 at 09:54:58 Vance is ignorant, he called Trump the American Hitler How obtuse is that? MAGA |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by JOG on 08/08/25 at 11:08:21 1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. PERIOD. But, homeless Veterans who have served their country ,hungry, sleeping outside? That is Fiiine! Let's take care of illegal aliens first! 2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Well, you're wrong. Nobody has a Right to the labors of another. Oopsies, erased it,, try again.. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Serowbot on 08/08/25 at 11:30:55 You imply that NHS are slaves. They are paid Just like Police, Firemen, Garbage men, soldiers, etc Silly argument The entire civilized world has NHS but not us nooooo We have the freedom to go bankrupt or die Pubetards are against everything until they need it Then they make the unfounded argument that illegals and coloreds get it but they don't |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by JOG on 08/08/25 at 12:24:12 Yeah, PAID, based on Their work. How do you propose they be paid? By taxpayers? And We get to pay for the healthcare of others? Do WE get to control their behaviors? Their diets? Eliminate their dangerous hobbies and demand everyone hit the gym? Take their shots? The Amish can't drink their own milk? What U propose is idiotic. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by JOG on 08/08/25 at 12:30:44 For some reason it wouldn't allow me to post this while it had spaces,,IDK if it is gonna work. 3. I believe education should be affordable. . It WAS, before idiots decided to get government in the picture. Suddenly the colleges were offering new classes. The staff exploded. Graduates of studies with no employer waiting. Genius. Take the time, watch the guys walking around campus asking How many weeks in a year? Name three countries, other than the US. You would be amazed at how few get it right. Absolute morons IN COLLEGE. You Know they are Not studying to be Electrical Engineers. 4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. Agreed. have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Understand what happens when Demand, for Anything, outstrips Supply. Availability decreases, Price increases. The More People there Are, the more The Product is needed. Flooding the country with PEOPLE, no matter How they got here, legally or not, more people means More Need. Do the math. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist. 5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare. 6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live. That problem was caused by decades of corruption and Mismanagement. This would be a several beers long discussion and then that would only trim down the list of reasons why we're where we are. 7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine. Agreed! Now, backthFUKKOFF with the tranny nuts. 8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you. Define Rights. The deluded, mentally ill trannies wanting to use the same restrooms as our wives and daughters? Shove it. Okay, I'm done for a while. 9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc). 10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation. 11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past. 12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized. 13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is the enforcement of present laws and enacting new, common sense gun regulations. Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine. 14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person? 15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else. 16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be? I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.” Ron Howard[/quote] |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/25 at 13:27:13 6E786F726A7F72691D0 wrote:
He’s said that was a stupid thing to say. You clowns believe it with all your being. Wachos. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Serowbot on 08/08/25 at 14:54:44 When his boss caught him saying it Ooooops! That was a stupid thing to say He still said it Slip of the tongue? Hardly All the Republltards know not to say what they think Tow that line |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by JOG on 08/08/25 at 15:35:19 6A7C6B766E7B766D190 wrote:
Dumbass. It's TOE. the Line isn't freight. Why should I be surprised that you don't even know the meaning of the phrases you use? |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by JOG on 08/08/25 at 16:00:31 But No actual response yet my posts. Take them apart. Use your Beeg Boi wurds |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Needles on 08/09/25 at 06:03:51 The American press has just recounted what former President Jimmy Carter said to Donald Trump during his recent interview about China. "You're worried that China is getting ahead of us, and I agree with you. But do you know why China is getting ahead of us? I normalized diplomatic relations with Beijing in 1979. Since then, do you know how many times China has gone to war with anyone? Not once, even though we're constantly at war. The United States is the most warlike nation in the history of the world because it wants to impose states that respond to our government and American values [ch8203][ch8203]throughout the West, and to control companies that own energy resources in other countries." China, for its part, invests its resources in projects such as railways, infrastructure, intercontinental and transoceanic bullet trains, 6G technology, robotic intelligence, universities, hospitals, ports, buildings, and high-speed trains instead of using them for military spending. "How many kilometers of high-speed trains do we have in this country? We wasted $300 billion in military spending to subjugate countries that sought to escape our hegemony. China hasn't wasted a penny on war, and that's why it surpasses us in almost every area. And if we had spent $300 billion to install infrastructure, robots, and public health in the United States, we would have high-speed transoceanic bullet trains." We would have bridges that don't collapse, free healthcare for Americans, thousands of Americans who wouldn't be infected with COVID-19 more than any other country in the world. We would have roads that hold up properly. Our education system would be as good as South Korea's or Shanghai's." - Jimmy Carter. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Needles on 08/09/25 at 06:39:10 Let's try a controversial one here as it's always worth having conversation about the effects of propaganda on the populace. And no, this isn't about adopting communism, just about seeing the propaganda that is believing in the religion of capitalism: "Never let the absurd identities of “socialism” and “communism” confuse you. There is no meaning to these words without referencing anti-capitalism or anti-market economics. And realizing the problems of market capitalism simply means: realizing the problems of market, capitalism, and working towards solutions. And the true solutions require the establishment of a new kind of economic model. A model based on fundamental sustainability and public health principles that are empirically proven. That perspective and basis of reasoning is never to be confused with anything that has come before or has been propagandized by the cult of “free markets.” You see, dualities serve an important purpose. They are associative trash bins. And all you have to do is associate people a certain way, and their critical thought completely shuts down." - Peter Joseph ;) |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Needles on 08/09/25 at 06:43:17 https://ultimatelexicon.com/definitions/a/anti-capitalism/ |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by MnSpring on 08/09/25 at 06:56:26 Yep Jimmy LOLOLOLOL The Highest Borrowing rate in the history of the USA. The most spineless who LET TERRORIST do what they want with American Citizens. The most LIBERAL, D.F.I. POTUS in recent history. Yep, MALC !!!!!!!!! Please provide info on how many, Habitat for Humanity, houses, that are 5 + years old, are still in the hands of those that were given one. ?????????? When the house was given, or a very low price, and the 'owner' was responsible for upkeep, maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc. A-Yep. Someone that was compliant in growing Peanuts, but very little else. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by thumperclone on 08/09/25 at 07:07:36 habitat for humanity doesn't give away housing they have to be earned by sweat equity no taxpayer monies are used in the program there is nothing wrong with giving another a helping hand unless you have no compassion like many rightwing nut jobs and maga idiots |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by MnSpring on 08/09/25 at 07:15:25 "...Please provide info on how many, Habitat for Humanity, houses, that are 5 + years old, are still in the hands of those that were given one. ??????????..." |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by Eegore on 08/09/25 at 08:50:15 ...Please provide info on how many, Habitat for Humanity, houses, that are 5 + years old, are still in the hands of those that were given one. ??????????..." This is a clever approach. This is a question that can only have an accurate count of zero because it is a scenario that never existed. That's not how that program works. You are on the right track in regard to program abuse but insisting the program works in a way it does not will just create a circular argument of people telling you the homes aren't given away, and you asking how many people stay in homes given to them. The answer is clear: Habitat for Humanity, houses, that are 5 + years old, are still in the hands of those that were given one = 0. It can only be 0 because nobody has ever been given one. |
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Title: Re: What is a Liberal? Post by MnSpring on 08/09/25 at 18:51:00 09292B233E294C0 wrote:
Did you not chose to, 'observe', the words: ... or a very low price, and the 'owner' was responsible for upkeep, maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc. ... |
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