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Message started by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 02:04:21

Title: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 02:04:21

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/103UkabW7N4

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 04:53:54

I can post a video too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ99GBGtb2Q&pp=ygUZSXNyYWVsIGhhcyByaWdoeWZ1bCBjbGFpbQ%3D%3D

Bottom line, there’s only one side perpetuating this war/conflict: Arab states using the Palestinians as sacrificial pawns in their war on Jews. Right now, Hamas is doing their dirty work aided by some bazaar phenomenon, where the popular and entertainment cultures have grabbed ahold of the Palestinians as innocent victims and Israel as Darth Vader or something.

Do you want this to end? Tell the Palestinian people to rise up against Hamas and Arab states. Otherwise, they’re doomed and it’s their own fault.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 06:11:38

I see it differently.

Israelis have an expansionist drive, a collective trauma, and from that pain, they are aggressive toward anything that threatens them in any way.

The promised land is known in the Bible as Canaan, which corresponds to an area that now encompasses Israel, the West Bank, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.
It was in the Bible, but "the promised land" was never Jesus' words, and what is happening now in Gaza is entirely in the name of the Israelis themselves.

The true promised land is a spiritual state of being, which is instantly available when someone enters.

The whole promised land thing is a misunderstanding, used now and in the last century as an excuse/pretext/nonsense story to bring Jews to present-day Israel. It was colonial England that approved of conquering land, and the idea originated with them. Combined with the Jewish mindset, the desire for expansion, clever business, and seeing themselves as the chosen people, this cocktail of ideas creates a deadly combination.

They are the Hitler they armed themselves against to ensure that no Hitler would ever rise again to harm them.

They never seriously intended to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians.

I used to have a friend who lived in a kibbutz because she found it idealistic, but she came back with stories about the seizure of land from Palestinians, where Palestinians who were killed were buried in orchards with a cutting of a tree on top because the soil wasn't fertile. And that's the history of Israel, and that's why they're so hated in the Middle East, and this mentality still exists collectively.

And their attitude is, "We are the promised people, we will use you as we see fit, and given what was done to us, our ruthlessness is justified."

In your video, they conveniently forget to mention that they were the ones who crucified Jesus.

So what right do they have to use a book about enlightenment to conquer and commit genocide?

I could also draft a mandate in a large building with a lot of fanfare and have it signed by the international community.

But I'm not impressed. That same international community is now fiercely opposed to what's happening in Gaza, and their official bodies are labeling it as genocide.

Even now, the Trump administration and Israel are manipulating the entire world to revolt against Israel.

Wars are currently being used to gain geopolitical leverage, and that's what bombing Iran actually entailed.

You come up with a video from the Club 700, featuring a fake preacher/media entrepreneur.
But I'm sophisticated enough to see right through that. And I see religion as nothing more than a tool for power.

And that's because I see the difference between religion and true spirituality, which, by the way, is pure unconditional love.
So explain to me, how people get the idea to use tat as an excuse to commit genoside.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 07:06:34

Do you want this to end? Tell the Palestinian people to rise up against Hamas and Arab states. Otherwise, they’re doomed and it’s their own fault.

Israel is pulling your leg. The whole "episijn" affair could well consist of spying on and blackmailing high-ranking officials, including Trump.

How will this end? Not with a genocidal attack. The Arab world will never forgive this, and the rest of the world will never forget it.

How will it end? History is difficult, so the future will be difficult. So what?The way right now, is for America to stop Israel.
And draw the line.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/18/25 at 07:36:30

3C2330232823282334212F23460 wrote:

"... Israel is pulling your leg ..."

So the October 7 attacks, the first invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Means NOTHING to you ?

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 07:36:35

796675666D666D6671646A66030 wrote:

I see it differently.

Israelis have an expansionist drive, a collective trauma, and from that pain, they are aggressive toward anything that threatens them in any way. Raping and torturing women and children is more than threatening….

The promised land is known in the Bible as Canaan, which corresponds to an area that now encompasses Israel, the West Bank, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.
It was in the Bible, but "the promised land" was never Jesus' words, and what is happening now in Gaza is entirely in the name of the Israelis themselves.

The true promised land is a spiritual state of being, which is instantly available when someone enters.

The whole promised land thing is a misunderstanding, used now and in the last century as an excuse/pretext/nonsense story to bring Jews to present-day Israel. It was colonial England that approved of conquering land, and the idea originated with them. Combined with the Jewish mindset, the desire for expansion, clever business, and seeing themselves as the chosen people, this cocktail of ideas creates a deadly combination.

They are the Hitler they armed themselves against to ensure that no Hitler would ever rise again to harm them. It’s beyond pathetic to equate those two

They never seriously intended to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians.
Here, let me fix that for you: They, or no country, should consider living next to a neighboring country who repeatedly expresses a desire, and follows through with actions, to wipe them off the earth

I used to have a friend who lived in a kibbutz because she found it idealistic, but she came back with stories about the seizure of land from Palestinians, where Palestinians who were killed were buried in orchards with a cutting of a tree on top because the soil wasn't fertile. And that's the history of Israel, and that's why they're so hated in the Middle East, and this mentality still exists collectively.

And their attitude is, "We are the promised people, we will use you as we see fit, and given what was done to us, our ruthlessness is justified."

In your video, they conveniently forget to mention that they were the ones who crucified Jesus. Every one knows that, but so what?

So what right do they have to use a book about enlightenment to conquer and commit genocide? No one’s committing genocide. You can throw that word around all you want but it’s not true

I could also draft a mandate in a large building with a lot of fanfare and have it signed by the international community.

But I'm not impressed. That same international community is now fiercely opposed to what's happening in Gaza, and their official bodies are labeling it as genocide.

Even now, the Trump administration and Israel are manipulating the entire world to revolt against Israel.

Wars are currently being used to gain geopolitical leverage, and that's what bombing Iran actually entailed.

You come up with a video from the Club 700, featuring a fake preacher/media entrepreneur.

But I'm sophisticated enough to see right through that. And I see religion as nothing more than a tool for power.

And that's because I see the difference between religion and true spirituality, which, by the way, is pure unconditional love.
So explain to me, how people get the idea to use tat as an excuse to commit genoside.

I grabbed the first video that came up, I didn’t even watch it. Point is, I can find any video to refute another video.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 07:39:56

607F6C7F747F747F687D737F1A0 wrote:

You mean return to the conditions in place on October 6th? No thanks.

Here’s the solution. Kick everyone out of Gaza. Make those Arab countries who pretend to be so upset at the plight of the Palestinians, take them in. Then bulldoze everything into the ocean. Irrigated the land, build it up, civilize it, and don’t let anybody in who is even remotely anti-somatic which I’m afraid would include you based upon your ridiculous Hitler, comparisons and claims of genocide.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 08:31:25

586A6D7C7B6A7D426E7D640F0 wrote:

[quote author=796675666D666D6671646A66030 link=1752829462/0#2 date=1752844298]I see it differently.

Israelis have an expansionist drive, a collective trauma, and from that pain, they are aggressive toward anything that threatens them in any way. Raping and torturing women and children is more than threatening….

The promised land is known in the Bible as Canaan, which corresponds to an area that now encompasses Israel, the West Bank, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.
It was in the Bible, but "the promised land" was never Jesus' words, and what is happening now in Gaza is entirely in the name of the Israelis themselves.

The true promised land is a spiritual state of being, which is instantly available when someone enters.

The whole promised land thing is a misunderstanding, used now and in the last century as an excuse/pretext/nonsense story to bring Jews to present-day Israel. It was colonial England that approved of conquering land, and the idea originated with them. Combined with the Jewish mindset, the desire for expansion, clever business, and seeing themselves as the chosen people, this cocktail of ideas creates a deadly combination.

They are the Hitler they armed themselves against to ensure that no Hitler would ever rise again to harm them. It’s beyond pathetic to equate those two

They never seriously intended to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians.
Here, let me fix that for you: They, or no country, should consider living next to a neighboring country who repeatedly expresses a desire, and follows through with actions, to wipe them off the earth

I used to have a friend who lived in a kibbutz because she found it idealistic, but she came back with stories about the seizure of land from Palestinians, where Palestinians who were killed were buried in orchards with a cutting of a tree on top because the soil wasn't fertile. And that's the history of Israel, and that's why they're so hated in the Middle East, and this mentality still exists collectively.

And their attitude is, "We are the promised people, we will use you as we see fit, and given what was done to us, our ruthlessness is justified."

In your video, they conveniently forget to mention that they were the ones who crucified Jesus. Every one knows that, but so what?
You can't just go around nailing people to the cross. That's what this whole discussion is about.

So what right do they have to use a book about enlightenment to conquer and commit genocide? No one’s committing genocide. You can throw that word around all you want but it’s not true

I could also draft a mandate in a large building with a lot of fanfare and have it signed by the international community.

But I'm not impressed. That same international community is now fiercely opposed to what's happening in Gaza, and their official bodies are labeling it as genocide.

Even now, the Trump administration and Israel are manipulating the entire world to revolt against Israel.

Wars are currently being used to gain geopolitical leverage, and that's what bombing Iran actually entailed.

You come up with a video from the Club 700, featuring a fake preacher/media entrepreneur.

But I'm sophisticated enough to see right through that. And I see religion as nothing more than a tool for power.

And that's because I see the difference between religion and true spirituality, which, by the way, is pure unconditional love.
So explain to me, how people get the idea to use tat as an excuse to commit genoside.

I grabbed the first video that came up, I didn’t even watch it. Point is, I can find any video to refute another video.[/quote]Just take a good look.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 09:27:42

41625F7C7E65626B0C0 wrote:

[quote author=3C2330232823282334212F23460 link=1752829462/0#3 date=1752847594]"... Israel is pulling your leg ..."

So the October 7 attacks, the first invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Means NOTHING to you ?

All my life here in the Netherlands, I've seen documentaries on TV, in the news, and in newspapers, show how Israel misbehaves with its neighbors. I had an Iranian diplomat as a client. I've heard the other side of the coin. And I've had several experiences with Israeli soldiers myself, seeing how they broke the shoulders of Palestinian children under eight for throwing stones. My stomach turned.
So I don't think much of Israeli tactics, and I've seen the desperation of the Palestinians.

That doesn't mean I approve of it, but it seemed inevitable to me.
[/quote]

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 09:41:38

Did you ever consider that all your life, all those documentaries you’ve seen, have been propaganda and unfairly slanted to portray the Palestinians as innocent victims as opposed to victims of Arab states? Did those documentaries mention the leader ship of nearby Arab states funding terrorist activities in Israel. Does it occur to you that the Palestinian people have been turned into pawns?

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by thumperclone on 07/18/25 at 10:49:48

Most Arab states don't recognize Israels' right to exist...

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 10:52:34

Did you ever consider that all your life, all those documentaries you've seen, have been propaganda and unfairly slanted to portray the Palestinians as innocent victims, as opposed to victims of Arab states? Did those documentaries mention the leadership of nearby Arab states funding terrorist activities in Israel? Does it occur to you that the Palestinian people have been turned into pawns?

No, I have a fairly neutral view of the matter, but I doubt you do. For example, I'm watching a video you sent because I'm interested in what shapes your opinion. My perceived reality is quite broad.
But I'm also fairly familiar with the Arab world. My girlfriend studied Arabic, and I know people from the Sufi movement. And I know the dark side of the Arabs quite well.

And I know that the entry of the Jews into the promised land caused them a lot of resentment, and how that does not resonates with their culture.

The Israeli state was simply a bad idea. My view of the Palestinian case differs from yours, and I live in The Hague, where the International Criminal Court is located, and they hase ruled that Israel is committing genocide. However, the trial hasn't yet been held. There is overwhelming evidence for it. Amnesty International is also very clear about it.

Why do you doubt it? You see what's happening yourself, or don't you? Or is it not in the news where you are?

An entire population is being systematically exterminated. And if you think that's a good thing, you should go and see it. Because maybe it will dawn on you.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/18/25 at 11:50:20

46594A59525952594E5B55593C0 wrote:

"... An entire population is being systematically exterminated. ..."

Yet it is perfectly OK for Arab states, funding/encouraging, killing/capturing, Israels.

OK, got it.