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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either) :(
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Message started by TCF on 03/06/25 at 08:54:58

Title: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either) :(
Post by TCF on 03/06/25 at 08:54:58

HI, having had a look through the topics etc on the forum I don't really seem to be able to find much in the way of reference to machines running hot - maybe its me, if so apologies in advance.

I've managed to acquire a 1996/7 Savage, tbh I'm not sure of its origin and I was told when I purchased it from a private seller that it was an import, supposedly from New Zealand.

I've had to do some mods to the controls to allow me to ride it - I'm an amputee, but they are purely mechanical linkages etc.

I've only been able to ride the bike once as I'm rather concerned about how hot it gets - there's also evidence of heat build up in the past as the tank rubbers seem melted somewhat! (Hopefully pic attached)

Initially, I assumed it was due to a dirty carburettor etc. So I stripped the carb down and gave it all a good clean, I replaced some items for new, others were cleaned and the put back. Having also done an oil change, making sure that the filter was in the correct way around and that both the seals were in place, I checked the air filter - clean, although it has a lingering smell of petrol. For want of anything better to do, I also changed the spark plug. I may have very slightly over filled the oil, but I've never known that to cause an major problem like this in the past.

To put things in perspective, the spark plug is coming out of the bike with a tan/grey dusting, which looks okay to me. But in reality the bike was so hot after only riding it just one mile, it was impossible to put your hand on the end can!

I do have a Clymer Manual and a Suzuki Workshop manual, which I have been following. I also managed to get hold of a parts book too, which has been useful for exploded diagrams etc.

So, I accept that the bikes are going run physically hotter than I'm used to, but just what is 'normal'? If anybody has any suggestions I'd appreciate the feedback.

As an additional, I've got some T6 oil coming and will do an oil and filter change when it arrives.

Ride Safe All. TCF.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by Savard 05 on 03/07/25 at 03:20:28

A few tips to look for is make sure the air screw on carb, the one usually covered by brass plug, is turned out up to 3 turns no more, when I got my bike someone put wrong air screw in carb and after 1 min idle the exhaust was glowing red. Also make sure idle speed is up to 1100 to 1200 rpm . Those got my bike to cool down along with carb clean. Hope this helps. I'm sure more ppl are about to give ideas. Good luck.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by TCF on 03/07/25 at 04:40:22

Thank you for the pointer ref the air screw mixture - as it is, I've set it as per the manual, so I may just wind it out a bit more and assess things then.

The bike has indications of being worked on in the past, and I am beginning to wonder if its had a replacement cam chain and that the timing may be out as well.....

Ride Safe. TCF

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/07/25 at 05:58:55

First. Welcome.

I doubt the gas tank cushion condition is related to overheating. It looks like the gas tank has been removed and reinstalled 1000 times and chewed the crap out of the cushion by taking it on/off. If it was heat related, I’d suspect you’d have melted wires and other cooked parts in the area.

How are you judging “too hot”? Are you just letting the bike idle on the side stand for 10-20 minutes? The bike needs airflow (air cooled) to keep from overheating. It also needs oil moving to the top of the head (oil cooling).

These bikes have very low oil pressure at low idle speed, and low oil pressure to the head is worsened when just idling on the side stand. A lot of people have raised their idle speed to 1300rpm to help with oil pressure while idling.

Do you know the heat range of your spark plug (brand and number)? A "hot" spark plug has a longer heat transfer path, keeping more heat at the tip, while a "cold" plug has a shorter path, dissipating heat faster. A hotter plug may help a little.

These bikes do run fairly hot being a big air cooled single. I notice a difference compared to my water cooled bikes with a radiator and fan.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by TCF on 03/07/25 at 08:34:08

Hi Paul, thank you for the welcome :)

I get where you are coming from ref the tank mounts, but I do think its heat related......

The bike has only been ridden twice so far, once by me and once by a buddy. On both occasions the bike exhaust got extremely hot. I rode the bike approx 1 mile at urban speeds and by the time I returned to my home the exhaust end can (muffler) was so hot you could literally boil a can of water on it! I have noticed that many owners wrap their down pipes in heat proof material, which is what I intend to do eventually.

No I'm not letting the bike sit at idle either, imho that doesn't do any engine a lot of good!

I will, as suggested turn the idle up to boost oil pressure.

The spark plug is the correct one for the bike, and its brand new. As I mentioned in an earlier message, there's evidence of previous 'work' on the engine etc so maybe its going to have to be a rip down and check to make sure its set up correctly, without blockages in the oil paths, oil pump and the timing is right....... Deep joy ::) ::)

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/07/25 at 09:53:45

Gotcha.

I’m not a big fan of exhaust wrap. It traps heat inside rather than allowing it to dissipate out.

The header pipe is actually a “double wall”. It has an inner pipe wall doing header stuff and then pretty chrome outer wall doing pretty stuff.

Do your bike have the stock muffler? A clogged up muffler could cause heat buildup.

I’m out of ideas. Good luck.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by LANCER on 03/07/25 at 19:53:50

What is the jetting setup on your carb ?
Is it a CV or something else, what jets are in it, what is the position of the pilot adjustment screw ?
If it’s running lean, that can lend to heating things up.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/25 at 22:07:14

62646F42424B402E0 wrote:

I get where you are coming from ref the tank mounts, but I do think its heat related.

If heat was getting to these cushions (which are right next to gas) the whole bike would be melted.

I bet those are from new zealand environment

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/25 at 22:14:48

090F042929202B450 wrote:

On both occasions the bike exhaust got extremely hot. I rode the bike approx 1 mile at urban speeds and by the time I returned to my home the exhaust end can (muffler) was so hot you could literally boil a can of water on it!

hot tail pipe is not unusual for a savage, they are known to glow red after a ride.

tell lancer what carb you have and what jets

another thing that can cause the bike to run hot is if it has the wrong rotor. this will throw the timing off, very hard to tell if it is though.

and tail pipe heat shouldn't be a major concern, if you can't put your gloved hand on the cylinder or if it's so hot you can't keep your feet on the pegs then it's time pull over and shut it off.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by Savard 05 on 03/08/25 at 02:45:13

You say it has signs of someone else tinkering maybe someone used too much rtv on the valve cover and its blocking oil passages from what I've seen on here its common. I'd check that maybe someone had the famous head plug leak and used too much rtv. Again tho I would think you would hear bad noise coming from engine. Before going deep inside for cam chain I'd check timing marks and make sure they line up maybe even a valve adjustment while doing that.Good luck

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by TCF on 03/08/25 at 03:15:09

Thank you all for your feedback. Its been really useful.

Some further investigation and decision making has been made.

Unfortunately, despite my best efforts I can not find any markings on the carb, which is annoying to say the least. Without removing it again, I don't know what the jettings are (yes, I know, I should've noted them down when it was apart!!) - Lesson learned.

I've also done a compression test, which peaked out at 120 psi - which isn't good. Before I let myself get carried away, I'm going to do a valve train set up and run the test again.

All duly noted about the exhausts getting hot, for what its worth I'll pull the end can off, and the down pipe, and double check for blockages etc.

Further updates later, once I have found an 'S' shaped 10mm spanner to get into the rocker box covers......

Ride Safe All.

Lin - TCF

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/08/25 at 05:10:08

See the attached link for good info on the stock carb. There is an illustration which you can probably eyeball and determine is you have the stock Mikuni BS40ss.

Being an older Savage and from New Zealand, it’s hard to say what size jets might be in there and if someone has played around with the white spacer (shim) on the needle.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/08/25 at 08:01:59

The thing that's always puzzled me is how the CA model (and similar European) for 1997-2004 is setup so much leaner.

A) #125 Main Jet VS #145
B) #47.5 Pilot Jet VS #52.5
C) And the bigger 52.5PJ is set at 3 turns out (richer) vs 47.5PJ at 1.75 turns out (leaner). This one is particularly weird. Seems like the CA/European models would be COOKING at idle.

Can't really see what's happening with the Main Air Jet, Needle Jet, and Jet Needle.

I've come to agree with Dave that a #150MJ and #50PJ (or maybe a #52.5) is a good starting point for a stock motor and maybe a somewhat free-er flowing exhaust (like a HD Dyna muffler).

But for a CA/European model and not knowing the main air jet, needle jet, and jet needle, it's hard to say what a good sized Main Jet should be without swapping out those items to match the standard USA version. Maybe one of our European members or someone else knows.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by verslagen1 on 03/08/25 at 11:26:19

If not clear "CA" should be refered to as Canadian and not Californian.
We're not that far left at least at that time.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by Dave on 03/09/25 at 03:29:13

You have plenty of people helping - so I won' jump in and add another.

However - I am a bit skeptical about heat doing the damage to the fuel tank cushions. The frame and fuel tank will carry away heat in quick order - the fuel in the tank also works to keep the heat under control.

If the heat in the cushion area was hot enough to melt the cushions - why is the plastic coating on the clutch and throttle cables and electric wiring still good? Also the ignition coil, plastic turn signal relay, etc. would also be cooked?

Getting a temperature gauge on the head would help - or even an infrared thermometer that you could use to "point and shoot" to obtain temperatures at various engine parts.

https://www.amazon.com/RunLeader-RL-TM004-Temperature-Thermometer-Snowmobile/dp/B01G6SJW8U/ref=asc_df_B01G6SJW8U?mcid=f0632f1fa3963a02b46bce2eaefe4cf7&hvocijid=13502983605122503667-B01G6SJW8U-&hvexpln=73&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=730312820598&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13502983605122503667&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014387&hvtargid=pla-2281435177578&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Trail-Tech-742-ET1-Temperature-Digital/dp/B071HKW8R9?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=AN638R3PFM9Y5&gQT=1

https://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Lasergrip-1080-Non-Contact-Thermometer/dp/B00DMI632G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2CB9WUVWFPOHY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.7e6Ttqoun8gWp-A8tcAwLA-1RiasIOhC1dYfuI5zqHNnmvcMTbNMJhRvMONpBCmPGwQK1S426H1H9TUGtIRCG7Ksy7nwgDQF0pHeIUxifAvmWTmLJO91n_ynKkTKzjHU4_eyYBk0T_zO4Ot8Lu7fSkqozGPb6Ttywnmr1Xwct2Oprkc2t0URvv-X8cMsITngtq0koPOl_1J3fdBx7QsAKhu3iVxxdY-c_NBRNVmr2IHbTOw9XsU_msGV0Surq6AjDRdzttXVslMR7OMYOX-foBtU6TjxcEjsZkvimlN0A_4.MARyLowNiukkSKiauf7BcF9TkAzHjytaGPEwruhqJhM&dib_tag=se&keywords=infrared%2Bthermometer%2Bgun&qid=1741516134&s=industrial&sprefix=in%2Cindustrial%2C119&sr=1-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by TCF on 03/09/25 at 04:52:36

Thanks Dave,

I have a laser guided thermometer - just need to replace the battery, so when I head out later today I'll get one.

You've kind of reiterated a point made earlier about items like the wiring etc not melting. So I'm going to go along with the idea of long term deterioration due to heat etc, rather than a specific event that's caused them tank mounts to look the way they do.

Thank you for your response.

Ride Safe. Lin - TCF.

Title: Re: Super Hot Bike (and not in a good way either)
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/09/25 at 14:14:57

Dave,
The heat gun idea is pretty cool. I want one!

Are there any specs or temperature ranges that are considered 'normal' when the bike is up to full operating temp (say after a 1 hour ride in traffic)?

Like at the:
1) top of head
2) left and right side engine case
3) cylinder
4) header at exhaust port, mid pipe, muffler