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Message started by WebsterMark on 01/16/25 at 05:45:27

Title: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/16/25 at 05:45:27

Got the figures below from a weather site so I’ll assume they’re correct enough, even drop by a little bit. That’s a total of about 3 degrees in 90 years and only a little more than single degree in the past 50 years.

1 How much of this is caused by anthropomorphic global activity?
2 How much of this is caused by the heat island effect as Los Angeles population exploded? I read a 1950 the LA population was just under 2 million in today it’s around 3 1/2 million.
3 Were these LA fires actual evidence of the existential threat some claim global warming is or is this evidence of poor management in large metropolitan areas in geographic areas prone to high wind and brush fires?
4 Is there’s some combination of the two whose ratio is difficult, if not impossible to state accurately?

High °F Decade
75.8 2010s
74.6 2000s
76.1 1990s
76.3 1980s
74.5 1970s
74.2 1960s
74.3 1950s
73.1 1940s
73.4 1930s
72.7 1920s

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by thumperclone on 01/16/25 at 07:07:11

I lived in the San Fernando valley(suburbs) from the 50s to the 70s
we had smog days where we stayed home from school
the Santa Anna winds blew through every year along with the annual wildfires
city of Los Angles and county encompasses 4,083 square miles

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Eegore on 01/16/25 at 14:07:37

All I know is that it is impossible for any change in climate to have a measurable negative impact. Right?

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/16/25 at 15:28:03

None of us can point to a single thing in our personal day to day lives that has changed due to mankind’s impact on the climate.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Eegore on 01/16/25 at 16:32:13

None of us can point to a single thing in our personal day to day lives that has changed due to mankind’s impact on the climate.

So you keep switching between "mankind's impact" and climate change as a whole. I for one can reference tons of negative impacts due to consistent climate change, which I have been told is not possible, however I do not claim the changes are due to mankind in any way.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/16/25 at 20:10:27

I’m 63 and have been camping on the same spring fed river in Southern Missouri for 40 years. My brother and I rode bikes and camped next to the river right before Halloween. It’s a protected watershed area so there’s no farming or cattle nearby. Other than the river cutting a new channel now and then,it’s the same now as first I saw it in early 80s.

So don’t try to convince me climate change is an existential threat. If it were, I’d easily see evidence but I see nothing and neither do you.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/17/25 at 04:06:49

Interesting article with historical data.

https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2025/01/why-la-wildfires-have-little-to-with.html

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by LANCER on 01/17/25 at 04:36:02

What are the primary natural driving forces behind the making of the climate we experience on earth ?
They are the sun, earths travel around the sun, rotation of the earth, and in a passive role, the oceans.
The planet is heated & cooled + the air is swirled + evaporation takes place = weather.
Look at the planet as a whole, like from the moon, and you see the entire atmosphere with clear and clouded areas, high and low pressure areas, stormy and calm, and it’s all in constant movement, and none of that is under our control. What we can do personally is prepare to deal with weather.
It’s just common sense for us to do things to protect ourselves, like door locks, or insurance, or efforts to prevent a fire inside our house, and outside our house. To do otherwise is just plain foolish.
A managed Forrest is a healthy Forrest.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Eegore on 01/17/25 at 05:31:24

So don’t try to convince me climate change is an existential threat. If it were, I’d easily see evidence but I see nothing and neither do you.

I've never said anything remotely close to that. You asked me if I have seen "negative impact" due to "climate change". The answer is yes.

Then you changed it to mankind influenced and added in existential threat. I answered the question you asked, not the modifications you made afterword.

Yes, I have had direct negative impacts from the changes in climate in different parts of the world, including the yield volumes of agricultural land I can see from my house. You insisting I do not "see" any negative impact is no different than me saying you do not "see" consistency along the river.

Insurance companies in my region won't insure a house with a shingle roof older than 10 years because of an average increase in hail volume frequency and intensity. That's a negative impact as next year I will have to drop 20k into new roofing to stay insured past 2026 - on a roof with reinforced "50 year" shingles (heavy fiberglass base covered in ceramic-coated mineral granules that are stuck in water-resistant asphalt). Nothing about that indicates an existential threat from man made weather changes.

It only addresses the question you asked. Have I "seen" negative impact due to "climate change". Yes I have, even due to a very small average annual percentage temperature increase.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by MnSpring on 01/17/25 at 07:31:43

5070727A6770150 wrote:

"... won't insure a house with a shingle roof..."

Perhaps all those houses in CA,
If they had steel roofs ?

Not a requirement, yet a lot of ‘Common Sense’.
In Northern MN, in the woods, there are Shanties, Mansions, and in-between.

Most are in forested area, with a lake or river close/nearby.

Most have Steel roofs, and ‘bear mats’.
Many have a pipe going over the roof, with sprinklers.
Which is attached to a large pump,
Which has a pipe going to a lake/river,

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/18/25 at 04:08:43

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by LANCER on 01/18/25 at 05:02:19

Generally speaking weather patterns go through 10, 50 & 100 weather cycles (seen in historical weather data for given areas) with hotter & colder, wetter & dryer, calmer & more active weather, for given areas.
As natural weather changes takes place and if economic changes occur such as inflation which raises costs of everything, insurance companies make price adjustments to take into account for those hanging factors.
For Ex., the pandemic, when there was massive over control and spending by the federal gov’t; that caused inflation to rocket upwards, and like everyone else, the insurance companies had to raise their rates to cover increasing costs of material and labor. It’s basic economics.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/18/25 at 05:24:21

I did some brief looking on the national weather service site and a few other places and it’s extremely hard to find nationwide historical data on hailstorms. Probably because as the country grew and more and more people moved to suburbs, they expanded outwards. Before that expansion, if there was a hailstorm in a farm field somewhere, no one knew, no one cared and there’s no monetary record of damage that you could adjust for inflation and material quality and make comparisons.

I saw headlines for articles that claim climate change will create more hailstorms and I saw an older headline to an article that said climate change would create less frequent hail storms.

My bigger point is, I refuse to believe the Earth is so fragile that a tiny change in temperature has catastrophic affect. I simply don’t believe that.

In summary, if you’re paying more for homeowners insurance due to companies claiming climate change is causing higher claims that have to be recovered through higher premiums, I have my doubts.

If that were true, wouldn’t seaside buildings be likewise be facing much higher premiums due specifically to higher sea levels? And wouldn’t insurance companies begin refusing to insure seaside facilities? Insurance companies are bailing on California due to fires but there’s no evidence climate change has anything to do with it. They’re bailing because the cost to repair and replace the buildings have skyrocketed due to all the other influences on cost.

Now, insurance companies may SAY premiums are increasing or they’re leaving an area because of climate change but that’s an awfully convenient excuse.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by zevenenergie on 01/18/25 at 06:23:08

It is a fact that there is going to be a climate change as far as I can see. But I think that for all left-oriented governments react much too extremely to that, and that lobbyists of NGOs and the business world feast on it and that reinforces each other to insane proportions. For example, our government spent billions to achieve a temperature drop of 0.0000043 degrees in 30 years. And those are exact figures that they gave.
Now developing countries are going to recover climate change damages from western countries and that is even honored and maybe rightly so, I don't know.

And I can go on like this for another half hour. I won,t Â :)

There is no political solution for climate change.
A change in consciousness is needed.
As long as people have their center in their thinking, they will never find satisfaction and remain selfish.
And then you can be as woke or left-wing as you want, but that does not contribute anything.

The only solution is a shift from the center of thought to consciousness. In church circles it is sometimes called "Thy will be done".
The price for being in bliss and ecstasy is extremely high.
You have to get rid of the illusion of the I thought.

If enough people make this shift (and that is really not half the world population but much less). Then the entire collective field of identified consciousness collapses.

If everyone would stop thinking now, it is inevitable that it will happen in an hour.

We are now so focused on ourselves.
While the only reason that human souls are here on this planet is the moon.
The moon is in a certain state of development where it needs our divine energy to awaken as a living planet.
The earth is the planet of form, and that is why this is one of the most difficult planets to come to love because we do not see that consciousness and form are the same. We see the form that is tangible as something that has nothing to do with consciousness.
However, everything around us is consciousness. We need to descend into our body, and to ground. Because our body is the earth. And when we descend completely into our body, we realize that we are consciousness. and the day you succeed is the happiest day of your life. Because the body produces no thoughts when you descend into it completely.
And thoughts are the veil that enshrines the divine.

The moon needs us to make this transformation, that is why we are here.

http://https://i.imgur.com/a2GEgd1m.jpg

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by MnSpring on 01/18/25 at 06:37:31

"... A managed Forrest is a healthy Forrest ..."

Remember the UL, DFI, FDS, 'tree huggers', saying:

'Save A Tree, use plastic bags'

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Eegore on 01/18/25 at 08:58:47

I’m not asking you to do tons of research, i’ve never heard this before, but I think I read up on this myself but are we sure your insurance premiums are directly related to climate change causing more frequent hail or are the increases due to something else? Is it because the insurance company is paying out more claims as larger homes are built? Could it be it’s not so much that the hail storm are more frequent it’s just that the losses are greater because the roofs are larger and more of them?

Colorado has an extensive hail record due to agriculture. Roofs are the least of the hail problem as large storms can cripple incomes for many farmers. There were decades where they believed they could predict patterns in weather, most notable popularized by anecdotal use of The Farmers Almanac. So hail records are pretty extensive, at least in the Arkansas Valley ag belt that I live in. This means I can "see" what happens there.

Why insurance is reducing acceptable roofing timelines and increasing rates has multiple variables. No insurance company, to my knowledge has said "climate change" is why the roof acceptability changes occurred. They have however said "more hailstorms" "increased damage due to larger hail" and "increased frequency".

All of those are true. Hail in CO, in my region, has increased in duration, size and frequency. That, to me, is change. I consider hail to be part of the Earth's Climate. As such, the change in hail is, to me, Climate Change. I can "see" it, so claiming I do not "see" hail is a poor argument. Increased cost is a negative impact, and I can also "see" the cost, so claiming I can not "see" increased cost is a poor argument.

So, to me, the increase in hail damage that I "see" is negative impact based off cost that I can "see", and hail, to me, is climate. So I can "see" climate change, that has a negative impact. I have no idea how anyone can claim I can not "see" a climate change that has a negative impact.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by thumperclone on 01/18/25 at 09:09:42

694A7754564D4A43240 wrote:

"... A managed Forrest is a healthy Forrest ..."

Remember the UL, DFI, FDS, 'tree huggers', saying:

'Save A Tree, use plastic bags'

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I remember when the orange FELON said, "Mexico will pay for the wall"
Bush said Hussain had weapons of mass destruction
Nixon said, "I'm not a crook"
humans make mistakes unlike the self-righteous wing nuts

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by JOG on 01/18/25 at 09:47:58

I have gone from
Nixon Was a crook to
Well, maybe not.
It took years of seeking little hints to conclude that he might have been set up.
I'm undecided leaning towards set up.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by MnSpring on 01/18/25 at 13:43:38

Nixon
was not even close
to what LBJ was.

Yet Nixon and LBJ
TOGETHER

Not as crooked as Biden.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by zevenenergie on 01/19/25 at 03:06:01

The Moon...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-_0aYnAcPsY

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by JOG on 01/19/25 at 06:10:24

Caution!!
If you scroll up you risk being trapped on a treadmill of shorts. Some of them are really entertaining,
Interesting thing how the moon so perfectly covers the sun, leaving the corona to be studied. And yeah, what Are the odds?
I'm sure the whole thing is just one big Happy accident.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Serowbot on 01/19/25 at 08:33:34

Aliens did it in cahoots with UL, DFI, FDS, 'tree huggers' :-?

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by JOG on 01/19/25 at 16:31:25

786E79647C69647F0B0 wrote:

Aliens did it in cahoots with UL, DFI, FDS, 'tree huggers' :-?

That is what intracranial tangled polyester produces.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by MnSpring on 01/19/25 at 18:08:10

Newsom BEGGING, and saying, Gimmie, Gimmie, Gimmie,

“There is no success,
American success,
without California’s success,”

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by WebsterMark on 01/20/25 at 05:34:22

5F7F7D75687F1A0 wrote:

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Eegore on 01/20/25 at 07:59:18

I’ve been involved with writing press releases for price increases for companies I’ve worked for. In those we cite all sorts of reasons. Some are valid, so,e are theorized to be valid. An insurance company citing climate change is a theorized reason for increasing insurance. And I’m not sure the claims of more frequent and larger hail storms in rural areas over a timeframe of decades, in which instant communication through email and text was not available for the majority of that time frame. Communication techniques matter and other historical study, so why wouldn’t it in this one as well? In the 1920s, 30s and 40s, how would we know what the severity of a hailstorm was in a remote area populated only a few farmers and ranchers? And wouldn’t their reports be entirely subjective?

Of course hail data prior to the modern technological documentation is subjective. It is plausible that prior to the 1987 data-center implementation that all hail reports were wrong. Unlikely, but lets say it is true.

I still consider hail to be climate. I have personally lived in the region most of my life, or at a minimum been knowledgeable of the weather impacts due to an extensive ag-land exchange that took years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to implement. In even that time, I have personally witnessed the direct impacts of more hail volume in the past 13 years.

Since hail is climate, I have "seen" it change, it seems to be a very poor argument to make that I can not "see" any climate change that has a negative impact. That's plain ridiculous to claim no human has ever seen a negative impact due to climate change. That is no different than me claiming you do not "see" the river channel changes that you clearly can see, then claiming it has a positive or negative impact on you.

Trying to pick apart discrepancies in hail reporting does nothing but avoid the fact that humans can "see" changes in climate and those changes can be negative. Farmers in my region have "seen" climate changes over time and those changes have not only been positive.

Title: Re: City of Angeles
Post by Serowbot on 01/20/25 at 08:24:09

4471627A6166627167030 wrote:

That is what intracranial tangled polyester produces.

JoG, that's Muppism :P