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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Long term review /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1733434690 Message started by faffi on 12/05/24 at 13:38:10 |
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Title: Long term review Post by faffi on 12/05/24 at 13:38:10 Sorry if I have posted this before, but I could not find anything suggesting it through a google-search. Back in February 1991, MOTORRAD magazine printed their 25k miles/40k km long term report. It took them 4 (!) years to reach this milestone after "rider neglect" caused the first Savage (only called LS650 in Europe. Or LS 650, as the Germans would write it) to end up destructed after 75% of the target distance was reached. So what did they learn? First, I must inform that this engine had power reduced from 31 to 27 hp in order to enter a more favorable insurance group. This should not affect the results much. When the bike was dismantled and the engine stripped, it became evident that the engine had suffered somewhat. - Camshaft lobes showed signs of pitting. Importer's advice to prevent this: Use low rpm when the engine is cold/just started to allow time for oil to fully reach and lubricate the top end, and adjust the valves to the biggest clearance of the permissible range, - Pitting on the 4th gear pairing. Importer's advice to prevent this: Use third more and avoid big loads in 4th gear. Gears should always be replaced in pairs when pitting is visible. - Cam chain guide on the tensioner side dry, brittle and split/cracked. Importer's advice to prevent this: None. Must be replaced to prevent engine damage. - Damaged splines on the output shaft and front pulley. Importer's advice to prevent this: Maintenance failure from the dealer, as all nuts and bolts should be checked at every service. Backed off retaining nut tension likely cause of the wear. Both shaft and pulley must be replaced. - Ripped final drive belt. Importer's advice to prevent this: Keep the tension correct and the pully retaining nut tight. The peak loads going into the chain due to the loose fit of the front pulley likely primary cause of the final drive belt ripping. - Worn out shock absorbers. Importer's advice to prevent this: Typical wear for the mileage. Must be replaced for safe handling to be restored. - Lots of corrosion all over the bike. Importer's advice to prevent this: Better cleaning and waxing, avoid riding on salted roads. Performance new/end of test: 0-62 mph: 8.6s / 9.1s SS 1/4mi: 16.5s / 16.8s Top speed, solo: 80 mph / 78 mph Top speed, 2-up; 80 mph / 76 mph Avg fuel consumption: 42.8 mpg Avg oil consumtion: 0.35 quart per 1000 miles What happened between 0 and 25k miles: Serviced every 3700 mi up until 18,500 miles, no record of the expected 22k service 4400 mi.: new front brake pads and new front tire 8000 mi.: new rear tire 8700 mi.: carb cleaned 10600 mi.: new rear tire, new front brake pads 15000 mi.: number plate holder repaired and reinforced 16300 mi.: head gasket replaced, camshaft replaced with good used one 18100 mi.: new front brake pads, new rear tire 19300 mi.: new front tire 21400 mi.: new steering stem bearings 23700 mi.: new steering lock, new exhaust outlet gasket, new front brake pads 24300 mi.: new front tire 25000 mi.: new final drive belt There were also a couple of clutch and speedo cable replacements, plus two front brake switches. Needed at the end of the test: Reworking the valve seats and lapping the valves Replacing the valve stem seals Replacing one cam chain guide Replacing output shaft Replacing front pulley Replacing rear wheel rubber dampers Replacing the rear shocks |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by ThumperPaul on 12/05/24 at 14:44:32 Thanks for sharing. Interesting info. Things that jump out at me are: 1) Low gas mileage for a de-tuned motor. 2) High oil consumption. It would be a quart (liter) low by 3,000 miles if you didn’t top it off. I have not witnessed this type of consumption on 4 different LS650s. Virtually 2 quarts comes out at oil change time and 2 quarts go back in. 3) The suggestion to use the widest valve clearance spec is interesting. If it didn’t tick so loud at the wide end of the spec, I’d like it more. 4) The rear cam chain tensioner (guide) “shredding” isn’t surprising. I call it the “banana stick”. That thing takes a beating. 5) Somebody is hard on front brakes or likes to keep the cute little sawdust pads fresh. Sell the bike at 15,000 miles and invest your money elsewhere (or buy ‘em really cheap and get to fixin’). :'( |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by DragBikeMike on 12/05/24 at 16:14:35 Man, that is bleak. This is the first time I have seen anyone else mention gear pitting. I suspect these guys were running the guts out of the thing (like me). I have never seen anyone else complain of gear pitting. I thought I was the only one. Unfortunately for me, these guys were testing a de-tuned 4-speed. I was hoping my 4-speed gear set would be better than the 5-speed in terms of longevity. So far, the 4-speed gear set with additional spray lubrication is holding up on mine. I routinely inspect with endoscope and no pits yet. I'm glad I souped up my oil system. |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by faffi on 12/06/24 at 10:12:53 Thanks for the comments. Sitting at or near top speed (about 75 mph) was done a lot. Also two-up(!) touring with luggage up and down alpine roads. And a trip into the Shahara desert. So it was definitely flogged much harder than most Savages. I think both the fuel consumption and oil consumption and pitting reflect the abuse. OTOH, I think it was testament to the Savage's durability that it held up this well. The SR500, tested by the same magazine, was worn out after less than 12k miles. Engines like the GPz1100, KZ1000, KZ750, GS1000, GS850, CB900, XJ650 and many more engines needed far more extensive overhauls after 16k miles (25k km) than what the Savage engine needed after 25k miles. |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by ThumperPaul on 12/06/24 at 10:21:10 Comparatively speaking, it's a SAVAGE BEAST of a bike! |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/24 at 11:10:10 212621212E470 wrote:
These comments are more telling to me then the rest. Type of riding and comparative wear. Quote:
This seems to be pretty average for miles vs. time. Quote:
A yearly avg would have been more telling. Quote:
No rings, no piston? obviously oil consumption wasn't a concern to them. Quote:
No head plug? and were all of the maintenance items preformed at the recommended times as noted in the owners manual? |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by faffi on 12/06/24 at 12:55:41 Quote:
This seems to be pretty average for miles vs. time. I doubt many Savage 650s average 12k miles annually. Quote:
A yearly avg would have been more telling. Why? To see if consumption increased? It was fairly constant over the duration. The numbers describe the average for the whole test. Quote:
No rings, no piston? obviously oil consumption wasn't a concern to them. Piston and rings were OK, no need to replace. Oil consumption is quite normal for an engine living a lot under WOT, I would say. The GPz1100 used more oil per 1000 miles than the RZ350 two-stroke. Quote:
No head plug? and were all of the maintenance items preformed at the recommended times as noted in the owners manual? Head plug? To seal the end of the camshaft? Dunno. The rest, like oil and filter and spark plugs etc I could not be arsed to mention as they are normal stuff that must/should be replaced as a matter of normal maintenance. |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/24 at 15:55:48 5B5C5B5B543D0 wrote:
If so, I don't think the engine was broken in correctly. From my experience, (2 engines starting from 15k miles, 1 from 4k, 1 rebuilt) they don't start burning oil until after 20k miles. Quote:
perhaps there's a clue, except for getting up to freeway speed and going uphill, I didn't need WOT. Most of my time was cruising along. |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by faffi on 12/07/24 at 06:35:25 They did the initial performance tests after 200 miles. As to how to break in engines, there are about as many ideas as there are owners. That neither cylinder or piston showed much in the way of wear suggest to me that the engine was not harmed. I reckon high rpm and the resulting higher temperatures that makes the oil thinner has a lot to do with the consumption. It is still only about 20% of what engine makers consider acceptable. As you mention in the end of your reply, how you typically ride is what matter the most. Load on engine parts increase with rpm squared, so keeping revs below 2/3 of maximum will do a ton of good for longevity. |
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Title: Re: Long term review Post by JOG on 12/07/24 at 13:17:46 High rpm has that piston chuffing up and down, the oil mist gets blown out the black hose at the top right of the jug. It goes through a compressed chunk of what looks like it would make a pot scrubber. If that tube doesn't leave goin uphill, it's going to be blowing oil. Using Dino it held its oil pretty well for a while after a change. Once it got up around 1500 miles on the oil,it started going through it pretty quickly. I didn't change oil on a Miles schedule. When the oil started needing topped off too often, it was time. This is Truly a YMMV moment. |
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