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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> I've never understood
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Message started by JOG on 12/04/24 at 11:36:51

Title: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/04/24 at 11:36:51

Why we send $$ to other countries. For a while I accepted the
By supporting these people they are able to accomplish things, good for the world, maybe avoiding a war,but I'm not able to believe there is benefit even close to the cost anymore.
If someone can explain why it's a good thing, I'll look at it.
Till then, Phht..

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by thumperclone on 12/05/24 at 11:35:13

would you have U.S. revert back to an isolationist nation again?
that's what got us into WW1
of course there needs to be oversight on monies spent

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/05/24 at 12:13:06

I didn't say not to trade, but sending billions and we're terribly in debt. It makes no sense to me.
Oversight? Yeah.. Accounting, yeah. And what are we getting for all that money?
I'm not seeing it as any kind of good for America.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by thumperclone on 12/05/24 at 12:59:43

sometimes you have to pay for friends

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by MnSpring on 12/05/24 at 13:49:37

372B362E332631202F2C2D26430 wrote:

sometimes you have to pay for friends

What do you,
have to pay,
for someone,
to be your friend ?

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/05/24 at 14:24:06

Who pays for Our friendship?
What are we Getting in return y'all that money?

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/05/24 at 15:04:20

We don’t know what we’re getting for our money. It’s an open ended question, because we don’t know what would happen if we didn’t. It’s like buying life insurance. You only win the bet if you croak while the policy is in force.

Would Israel still exist without US support? Certainly you see some benefit in having an ally in the region, right? Ukraine - just suppose to cede the Russian occupied territory to them. Where does it end?

We can go down an entire list of “what if we didn’t support” countries, and we DON’T KNOW what would happen. So we pay up, and place a wager that we wouldn’t like the outcome. Think about it - there is a real risk that socialist and communist countries that you loathe would take over territory and become extremely powerful.

Then what….The US is standing there strong with 100s of millions of people wanting to come here. We’ve already seen illegal immigration isn’t very popular. So…we should pay up so they can stay where they are and not destroyed.

It also lets our enemies know we won’t put up with their crap even when it’s not our neck on the line.

It does need to be reasonable, but some level of support is appropriate in my mind.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by thumperclone on 12/05/24 at 15:20:49

is not the dollar the world currency

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by WebsterMark on 12/06/24 at 05:19:33

Committing $1 billion to the African continent when it seems as if there’s no place on earth (other than US government perhaps) where money gets lost in a black hole more so than Africa.

I’m not sure what the solution is for the African continent but I doubt it’s another billion dollars. You can argue that money could be better spent here, but you could also argue that money could be better not spend at all.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/06/24 at 06:04:38

Hellooo, Hurricane victims..

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/06/24 at 06:09:05

In 2023, the US spent about $9.5 billion on donations for humanitarian aid around the world. If you divide that by 330 million people in the US, it works out to about $0.55 per week per person. So if you’re the sole breaded winner in your household, you’ll have to do some math to figure out your big outlay of cash.

The argument that’s always used by selfish and greedy bastards is that financial assistance should be voluntary. That’s just dandy. Then you look at rich folks (let’s pick on Elon Musk) - how much do they give of their money that they could never spend in 1000 lifetimes.

The vast amount of money that the US gives is done through non-profit organizations and doesn’t go into a black hole of corrupt foreign officials hands. Could non-profit organizations be more efficient - sure.

I feel like an ASPCA commercial. For less than $0.10 per day, we can make a huge difference for those suffering around the globe.

Some people are just plain ugly selfish a$$holes that don’t care about anyone except themself. Musk with all his money tasked with a government role to reduce the size of government - for what? So the money can be spent elsewhere, and Trump can give his companies more contracts and money? These are the same rich a$$holes that want to greedily quibble over bumping up their employees hourly rate from $10/hr to $10.50/hr. Here’s your $0.20/hour annual raise - be grateful, take it or leave it. Musk could do the whole $9.5 billion himself and it would be less that 5% of his massive wealth.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by Serowbot on 12/06/24 at 07:13:10

Geez you guys are tight
It's about 1% of our budget
Since when do you require reward for doing good?

Good should be reward in itself

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/06/24 at 08:18:28

162330283334302335510 wrote:

Hellooo, Hurricane victims..

The current administration approved more than $1.5 billion in direct assistance to Hurricanes Helene and Milton survivors. Additionally, over $1.2 billion was approved for debris removal and emergency protective measures.

Think how much more we could do if the uber wealthy greedy a$$holes actually paid their fair share of taxes. It's disgusting how multi-millionaires and billionaires like Trump can brag about how they 'legally' use the tax code and don't pay any federal income tax.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by TheBabyDerp on 12/06/24 at 08:25:15

477B667E6376614372667F130 wrote:

Israel should not get a dime from America. If this means the Muhammadans conquer it, so be it. Israelis HATE Christians with a burning passion. They even use a different addition symbol so they don't have to write a cross. They spit on Priests and nuns. It is an absolute disgrace that a single cent of my tax money goes to people that hate me.

Do not think I support Palestine either. Hamas would wipe out every Christian if they could.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/06/24 at 08:51:55

[/quote]

Israel should not get a dime from America. If this means the Muhammadans conquer it, so be it. Israelis HATE Christians with a burning passion. They even use a different addition symbol so they don't have to write a cross. They spit on Priests and nuns. It is an absolute disgrace that a single cent of my tax money goes to people that hate me.

Do not think I support Palestine either. Hamas would wipe out every Christian if they could.

[/quote]

Wow. I'm not sure where you get your information from, but citing some "one off" episodes of anti-Christian acts by some extemists doesn't warrant a generalization of an entire country. For the last several decades, 80-90% of Israeli people view their relationship with the USA as positive (Pew Research) - and, in turn, Christians. In fact, many Jews and Christians view Judism and Christianity being extremely similar (Abrahamic, but not Islamic).

I think the USA would be very remiss to abandon and alienate Israel and their importance as an ally in a volatile region.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by WebsterMark on 12/06/24 at 10:34:52

I’ve always been thankful that despite all my vices, greed and jealousy over someone else’s success isn’t among them.

Complaining that some rich guy (who’s always on the other side of the aisle) doesn’t give away massive amounts of his wealth tells more about you than him.

In my work life, I had the opportunity to work closely with major companies headquartered in small towns. They invested heavily in those communities when they didn’t have to. Most, not all of course but most, wealthy people donate and give away for more proportionately than the rest of us do.

The objection to another $1 billion to Africa is that we’ve poured an unbelievable amount of money into it, but without follow up to correct the infrastructure that creates generations of poverty.

Regarding Musk, I always find it hilarious that a hero to the left for years (much like trump )has turned into the devil incarnate. I say, give him a chance, he’s proved very successful in most of the ventures he’s tried so let’s see what he can do.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/06/24 at 13:09:48

Aren’t you just awesome! Whatever you think you know about me, you made up in your own little mind.

It doesn’t take much thought to realize and appreciate that the average working person that pays their taxes wants the wealthy to pay their fair share.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by WebsterMark on 12/07/24 at 03:48:36

Yes, I am awesome but that’s for another thread! ;)

Are you under the impression “the rich” don’t pay their fair share?

Define rich?
Define fair share?

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by WebsterMark on 12/07/24 at 03:57:50

Just read the piece below five minutes after that last post and I thought it was very timely.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/vayetse-when-enough-is-everything/

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/07/24 at 05:03:15

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by WebsterMark on 12/07/24 at 08:00:32

I should have been clearer. I’m not saying that all people earning over say, $1M per year aren’t paying their fair share. When they do their taxes honestly with the right intent, they pay enough. I’m referring to rich people like Trump that manage to find loopholes (or use fraudulent books) to dodge paying taxes.

I’m not aware of anyone who doesn’t use “loopholes”, I do, you do. Do you think Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, Mark Cuban, Elizabeth, Warren, Bernie Sanders….. any of your favorite millionaire liberal Democrats do anything different than Donald Trump does? Don’t delude yourself.

I’ll be the first to acknowledge that we have a spending problem more so than an income problem, but the amount spent on humanitarian aid abroad is peanuts compared to the flat out waste elsewhere in our spending.

I agree, hence the Dode initiative. I read the estimates for the number of government employees who work from home now and have since the pandemic and it’s staggering. The enormous waste of money must beyond belief.

As someone who has worked from their home for 25 years, I have certainly seen people who abused that. Dozens and dozens of people I’ve worked with have been let go because they just could not balance the needs of work with the flexibility of being at home. And since I’ve always been in sales, those people essentially fired themselves because they were not producing.

But if you’re a government worker at home doing desk jobs, my guess is your golf handicap has dropped significantly and a lot of those home projects have gotten done!

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/07/24 at 09:43:27

[ch128513]

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by Eegore on 12/07/24 at 11:50:15

One thing I've noticed about "work from home" is not a lack of productivity in most cases. What I have noticed is less unproductive downtime, like traffic, maintenance, Workman's on-site injury claims etc.

I think, in many cases, the issue is using empty buildings as a justification to get people "back to work." If productivity is lacking then sure, but to have zero productivity issues, and say that since there's a building people need to come back to work, this makes no sense. It's more expensive that way.

I have a ton of remote work from employees, long before Covid, and they have dealt with plenty of people complaining that they don't "go to work". Just because you have to drive hours every week through traffic and spend fuel money doesn't mean everyone else should.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/07/24 at 13:07:17

IF the work is getting done, it's not a problem. The fewer cars on the road the fewer people getting in wrecks. Instead of starting the day with navigating through it all, and gettin to work in a Mood, get up, start the day,walk in and start taking care of business.
Got a kid with a tummy ache? Okay, a parent is going to be home. Just, you Must go to work Because, Reasons,, I'm not good with that.
People should be more productive in their own environment.
Depends on the character of the individual.

Title: Re: I've never understood
Post by JOG on 12/07/24 at 13:09:02

Maybe we're overdoing it.

https://x.com/RonPaul/status/1865137982434415016/photo/1