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Message started by ThumperPaul on 09/04/24 at 05:10:07

Title: KTM Sales Slump
Post by ThumperPaul on 09/04/24 at 05:10:07

Is it an industry-wide sales slump or is KTM just losing ground relative to the competition?

Sales results are slightly positive in Europe and India. Sales are sagging in North America, Australia, and China.

We know it as KTM, but they are owned by Pierer Mobility (Austrian) and co-owned by Baja Auto (Indian). Pierer also owns the brands Husqvarna, GasGas, MV Augusta (50.1%) and WP Suspension.

Ownership structure, branding, and manufacturing locations have become blurred and muddied. The meticulously engineered Austrian motors for the KTM bikes (under around 700cc) are ALL now made by CFMOTO in China. So the KTM brand is owned by an Austrian and India parent company and most of the KTM motors are built by CFMOTO in China. So the overpriced and overrated KTM motorcycle is an Aus-Ind-Chi motorcycle. It’s an Ausindchi motorcycle.

I’ve owned a CFMOTO scooter and it had a pretty good quality build. I really can’t knock CFMOTO and I can see how KTM decided to partner with them for engine production. Oh, CFMOTO produces the entire KTM motorcycle for sales in the Chinese market under the KTM brand name. I bet Chinese cyclists know KTM bikes are built by CFMOTO in China. I also bet China sales are slumping because any potential buyer in China that can actually afford to pay the premium price for a KTM wants a “real KTM” and not something that was built in China (they know).

Layoffs in higher production cost countries and shifting to lower cost production countries is nothing new in the globalization of world markets. Looking at where sales are slumping though, I suspect buyers in these regions are catching on that the once renowned Austrian-engineered and built KTM is taking some cost-cutting shortcuts in production by shifting to China and India. It doesn’t matter if the build quality is comparable, it’s the perception of cheap Chinese/Indian junk and nationalist pride that are hurting sales. Buyers don’t want to pay a premium price for a perceived generic assembly line bike with questionable DNA. And KTM hasn’t passed along any of the production cost savings to consumers in the form of lower prices.

Real or perceived quality concerns, KTM (Pierer Mobility) is tarnishing their own reputation.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2024/september/pierer-announce-further-job-cuts/

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by Ruttly on 09/08/24 at 21:01:51

Best as I can tell is CFMoto skipped everything and went for the throat. They want World Grand Prix titles , you watch it starts as advertising next thing will be winning on Sunday then selling on Monday !

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/09/24 at 06:06:00

Well , Here's the problem ... they have "Too Many Indians , and Not Enough Chiefs " :
From the article : of MV Agusta adding 213 members of staff.

An additional 200 employees are set to lose to lose their jobs in the third quarter, with 373 already laid off since the year began.

......................

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/09/24 at 10:30:21

The KTM's I'm familiar with are all too tall for me. I have been to a CFMoto Demo day and found most of the bikes I rode that day be be very nice. It was unfortunate that the one I was most interested in was the one I liked the least after riding it. From what I've read and from riding the bikes I believe CFMoto probably does have a decent product.

The bike that has come out now that has really captured my attention though is the Moto Morini 700cc cruiser. I can't recall it's name at the moment but it is a really nice looking bike and somewhere in the 450 lbs range. I think I need to play the lottery this week! ;D ;D

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/09/24 at 21:27:51

OuuAaa , that a nice looking one , but I can't understand a word of it :

https://nieuwsmotor.nl/nieuws/persberichten/nieuw-moto-morini-calibro-700cc-cruiser/
:)
........................

Hang in there Springman , I waited 2 year for my 650 Meteor to come to the USA , I hope your gets here a bit sooner ! :) :)

I did make out the part of 750mm seat height and the tires being 18F/16R.

They all have ample power and the 15L fuel tank looks nice too ! I was ridding with a fella on a 1400cc HD today that said he only got 28mpg for every day ridding ! ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/10/24 at 09:41:48

Yep, can't understand a word there either. But she sure is a good looking bike!! 8-)

I like the 50+ mpg on the S-40 and even the 42+ mpg on my last century (1997) 1100cc Honda Shadow Spirit. ;D ;D

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by Dave on 09/11/24 at 04:37:29

Worldwide sales of motorcycles is likely a very complex issue - but I believe the lack of motorcycle production/sales during the supply chain shortage caused a big increase in sales once the issue was resolved and folks could buy motorcycles again. Right now the sales have dropped as folks have been able to buy motorcycles the last year or two and have not yet worn out or gotten tired of their new bikes.

I also believe that a lot of folks are a bit nervous about the economy and are waiting to see what happens before they go out and buy things that are not completely necessary. The cost of groceries/utilities/taxes have increased and taken a big bite out of the "fun money" account.

I also believe that KTM is a bit of a "Hooligan" bike. Their motorcycles are performance based and they don't really make models that appeal to a lot of folks - plenty of dirt bikes, sport bikes, naked bikes, supermoto and adventure touring bikes.......but no comfy touring bikes or cruisers. My neighbor just bought a KTM 890. The bike is very tall and I can only touch the ground using one tippy toe at a time. It has 105HP that is very aggressive and a bit scary at how quickly it reacts to throttle changes. The wind/weather protection is minimal and is limited to keeping wind off your chest.......the other parts are exposed to the full wind blast at speed. It is a fun bike to ride - but tiring for long distance rides

I do believe that the 390 and 890 Duke naked models would be fun to carve curves in the mountains - but my Cafe' Savage already does that for me and I don't need another motorcycle for doing that.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/11/24 at 06:57:16

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/11/24 at 08:25:50

Sounds like the bike buying budget isn't truly depleted. ;D ;D

As much as I would like to have a new bike I barely have enough room for 2 so would have to get rid of one. Deciding which bike to get rid of would be a tremendously difficult decision to make. Don't think I want to do that.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/11/24 at 10:12:08

650cc is getting 65 to 70 mpg..

CarrumBahhHumbuggery!!
My 450 is hitting around fifty to sixty,

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/11/24 at 10:48:56

5754564D4A4349454A240 wrote:

Note a problem if you have space in the back yard and enough access for a truck to get in. I’m moving and getting a 12x28 garage brought in. It’s not a lot of space but it quick and movable if needed. For 2 bikes, tools & parts, I think it will be adequate.
If your situation doesn’t allow that, then … just 2.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/11/24 at 10:52:56

6E5B48504B4C485B4D290 wrote:

650cc is getting 65 to 70 mpg..

CarrumBahhHumbuggery!!
My 450 is hitting around fifty to sixty,

*******

My Savage (700) and 71 BSA (650) both get milage in the 60’s.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/11/24 at 12:06:56

I've always liked you, man. Don't start making it hard for me, okay?

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/11/24 at 14:42:01

Who are you referring to ?
Me, Springman or MM ?

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/11/24 at 20:19:51

Hay JOG

If I ride like a Hooligan the millage can drop down to the low 50's .
But
I do try to drive like a Gentleman my real age most of the time ... :)
Till , somebody puts a twisty patch of blacktop in front of me ! ::)

Dern CarrumBahhHumbuggery twisty Roads !! ;D

That's OK , I know a few other folks who have the same problem ! ;)

Hi , my name is Mike and My Throttle has a problem sometimes ! :-[

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/11/24 at 21:30:39

Lancer

My Savage (700) and 71 BSA (650) both get milage in the 60’s.
Back to top

Hurting my Feels, dude...

Waah![ch128546]

MM, I've heard about you and your Hooligan ways.

I don't have pictures, but mine is white, and it has a wooden Lucerne milk crate on the fender.
Thumper Paul gave it a short test run.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/12/24 at 09:02:33

Hay JOG

Kawasaki has never been know as a Fuel Mizer ,
But
They sure know how to make some "HIGH SPRITIED MACHINES" they always have ! :)

......................
Hay a " 1971 BSA 650 " that runs good and looks good is enough to make me druel !
Especially the single carb version !
and
Electronic points replacements.

I'm not sure I'm mechanically able to have an original
but
I think I've got the modern version of it .

:)
..............

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/12/24 at 11:56:29

Lancer, you are ever the optimist. Nope, no way to get a vehicle in my back yard. I am therefore relegated to 2 bikes at most. :-[ Though I have thought about actually building a shed in the backyard myself. Maybe when I retire.

Oh and I'm sure JOG is referring to both you and MM. I'm the nice guy! :o ;D ;D

MM, thanks. I always thought it was me. But it's not. It's my throttle! 8-)

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/13/24 at 00:35:09

I'm not upset with anyone over them getting great mpg.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/13/24 at 04:39:09

5E6B78607B7C786B7D190 wrote:

I'm not upset with anyone over them getting great mpg.

Of course not ! [ch128513]

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/13/24 at 04:43:17

727173686F666C606F010 wrote:

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/13/24 at 08:23:51

Like I said, you are ever the optimist! ;D

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by verslagen1 on 09/13/24 at 21:23:45

59545B5650470702350 wrote:

[quote author=727173686F666C606F010 link=1725451807/15#17 date=1726167389]Lancer, you are ever the optimist. Nope, no way to get a vehicle in my back yard. I am therefore relegated to 2 bikes at most. :-[ Though I have thought about actually building a shed in the backyard myself. Maybe when I retire.

Oh and I'm sure JOG is referring to both you and MM. I'm the nice guy! :o ;D ;D

MM, thanks. I always thought it was me. But it's not. It's my throttle! 8-)

Yep, you can build a shop/bike garage and then all you will need is a 3-4’ wide path/cement walkway/rideway to get your bikes in and out. The bigger you build it the more bikes you can get in there. [ch128526][ch127949][ch65039][/quote]

Don't forget to beef up the overhead so you can winch up a bike off the ground and store parts overhead.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/13/24 at 22:09:53

now four thought like that is why you're THE "Versey" ! 8-)

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/14/24 at 13:28:24

Filled up today.. I looked at the numbers the bike was spewing. And I'm getting 60 out of it. I ride with the Average MPG showing and watch what the gear/RPM and terrain are doing to it between the places where I just AbSoFrikkenLOOTley do not care about the MPG, because I'm bustin through traffic or I'm on a section of assFault that has a radius in it.
Got in an uncomfortable spot, people Wanting to turn, people who have Ignored my flashing turn signal And my left arm, out from the shoulder, up, from the elbow, Tellin them,, Hey! I'm turning Right.. And I get worried that they are getting impatient and will just Go about the time I get there, so I stayed In It pretty good and hit that corner harder than I have. The assFault around here Is Faulty,, and lumpy, the suspension did its job and the right peg hit,, The surprising thing is, it didn't rattle me.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/14/24 at 15:40:12

Turn off the rattle alert sensor and just ride it out as best you can on any type of irregular pavement. Intense concentration is helpful.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/15/24 at 07:20:51

Yeah, Intense concentration is helpful.
And sphincter tension ,if allowed to exceed about 60% of Max, diminishes the ability to ride. Being Unrattled maintained focus and I didn't even get a spike in Pucker Factor. It was the same all the way through that corner. The traffic situation had me severely on edge. I didn't like anything I was seeing. I actually had time, space, and Could have shut it down and been absolutely safe. I could have done that differently and not been gritting my teeth, hoping nobody did anything Stewpid. Nobody coming up behind me.. Which made me more vulnerable to being run over, because only a bike was stopping the Left Turn guy. If a Biggo pickup would have been on my six then Left Turn guy would have more reason Not to turn yet.
That woman who hit me five years ago sure helped me see just how quickly things can go from
Isn't this a lovely ride
To
Code Brown!

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/15/24 at 10:01:49

I ride with my "Low-Beam" on so I can "Wink" my "High-beam" a couple of times ... Just to make sure they SEE ME !!

But some folks seem to think "It's only a motorcycle" , they can just
!!! Maneuver --OUT-OF-MY-WAY-- !!!

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/15/24 at 11:00:32

YaKnow,, I used to Do that. And it even has a Passing switch for the headlight.
Like I said, the Dammo sphincter tension can affect your thinking. I've noticed how much worse it is when I have my head up MeArse. It takes All Kindsa hot water and Directional Scrubbing to get the wrinkles outta my neck.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/16/24 at 12:19:38

Believe it or not Versy, I had actually thought about being able to winch the bike if I ever build the shed. Had not thought about parts storage though. Thanks.

Jog, I like loud horns on a bike. And I pretty much say a prayer just about any time I get on the bike or while I am on it. Not kidding on this, I really do.

Be safe amigo!

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by LANCER on 09/16/24 at 12:38:55

A winch would be simple enough, set a cross piece over 2/4 rafters , add additional support for those rafters if needed, hang the winch.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/16/24 at 19:26:42

hang the winch

Ohh,Gawwd! How I Wanted to Do that...
Oh,, winch,, not wench..
Oopsies, mah bayud.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/16/24 at 20:12:06

Jog, I like loud horns on a bike. And I pretty much say a prayer just about any time I get on the bike

.........

Out with a Horn and a Prayer ! :) ;D :) Me Too !! ;)

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by JOG on 09/17/24 at 10:03:21

That reminds me. I Have an aftermarket horn. I need to see if it will fit on o 450. It's pretty anemic. I can scream louder.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by ThumperPaul on 09/17/24 at 13:21:01

4043415A5D545E525D330 wrote:

I like riding on Sunday morning when traffic is about as light as it gets in Houston. I tell my wife, “I’m going to church.”. She knows that’s my code language for “I’m going for a ride and some prayer time (peace and talk to God) on the road!”

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by springman on 09/17/24 at 15:07:22

If I ever get to building that shed I will confer with ya'll.

JOG, if it is an anemic horn, don't even bother with it. I got a Bad Boy horn at Harbor Freight and installed it no the S40. The Honda is so loud I just have to goose it a bit to let people know I am there. If ever I change those pipes to something quieter I will add a loud horn to the bike.

I know some people will not believe us, but yes, I do often pray while riding just thanking God for beautiful days (even if it's raining) because every day is a beautiful gift from God.

Title: Re: KTM Sales Slump
Post by MMRanch on 09/17/24 at 22:19:09

It makes my eyes water to even think about just how blessed we are !

Even if

I feel sorry for KTM having a hard time right now.
But , I might have helped them out if they built something like the Meteor I got not long ago ?
I met a feller named Bat-Man not long ago - who helped them out best he could by getting one of their (890's-?) bikes. It looked "Pricey"