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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Mods /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1724500487 Message started by oiJoelad on 08/24/24 at 04:54:47 |
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Title: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Mods Post by oiJoelad on 08/24/24 at 04:54:47 Hey gang - thanks all for the add, I’m really excited to be here and part of a knowledgeable community! I’ve just been handed down an 05 S40, brakes frozen and been sitting a few years. I’m planning to 1) get it running 2) enjoy it for a bit then 3) convert to a cafe racer as my new project. I’ve got a 95 DR250S right now that’s my commuter so not in a rush to get the Savage complete that quickly. I know the RYCA kit has huge popularity while it was available but now that it’s not, I’m trying to think of what’s going to be my pain points. So far the ones that stick out to me are: moving the rear sets back and swing arm mods to fit 18in wheel. These feel a little daunting so hoping for any advice you guys have - I’ve been searching the forums and found good stuff so far but send over any links you have as well. Note: I’ve got a friend who runs a CNC shop so can get most things within reason fabricated and another that welds (but hoping to learn myself as well). |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Armen on 08/24/24 at 06:52:07 Big gung-hos on the project! I think the Savage is an excellent platform for a cafe bike. I had an 18” wheel built on the OEM hub (alloy rim, stainless spokes). Because I did the Kawi front pulley (+2 teeth), and the larger wheel, I had to cut the swingarm brace and add an additional one. Not hard if you have the equipment. Post pics! |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by oiJoelad on 08/24/24 at 17:43:48 Thank you Armen! I’m very excited about it and def will post pics. So let me ask a question - do you have to mod the swingarm with an 18 in. wheel or did you have to do the mod because of the front pulley? |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Armen on 08/24/24 at 19:37:45 I think it was the combination of the two. Dave has done a lot of mixing and matching. Dave-care to chime in? |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Dave on 08/24/24 at 21:12:47 556679717A140 wrote:
I am currently in the process of finishing up some mid mount pegs - the interior mounting plates to the engine are the same and all you would need to change is the outer plates. I can post a photo of the inner plates with a scale so you could copy and make a set....or maybe I can find somebody to scan it (I don't have a scanner at home). I do believe you need to notch the swingarm if you run a 130/70-18 rear tire....especially if you run the Kawasaki front pulley. When you build your back wheel use a 3.50" wide rim so the 130/70 tire will have the proper profile. Next time I have my rear tire off I will stick it into a stock swingarm and see what the fit looks like. I am currently running the Double Kawasaki (front and rear) pulley and the 18" wheel/tire fits without doing any changes to the swingarm.......but this pulley combination is a lot of machining work and the tall gearing is not for everybody (currently only Badwolf and I are using it). |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by oiJoelad on 08/25/24 at 12:27:49 Dave - thank you sir. That would be awesome if you could post a pic or scan if you’re able. I’m sure I’ll have more questions come as I get into it but appreciate the help! |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by ohiomoto on 08/25/24 at 14:25:45 I took a different approach and chose a tire that didn't require swingarm mods. I even ran it with the stock rear fender for a bit during my build. |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by oiJoelad on 08/25/24 at 19:20:24 Ohio, do you mean you got an 18 in wheel and then used thinner tire? Did you like how it looked? |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by ohiomoto on 08/26/24 at 16:51:05 I've used these tires with a stock swingarm, belt, and pulleys. The circumference and width are from Shinko's website. 120/80-18 Shinko 705 (25.55" x 4.69") Dual Sport 4.10-18 Shinko 705 (25.16" x 4.09") Dual Sport 100/90-18 Shinko 712 (25.08 "x 3.98") Street Looks are subjective but I think they fit the style of my bike. My build thread is here (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1472222031/0). http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/IMG_20170402_135913595_001.jpg |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Bohica88 on 08/26/24 at 19:48:31 Is it needed to shorten the forks or use different forks for the cafe/ scrambler builds? Or does the stock fork geometry work for these builds. I've read over almost all the builds and haven't really understood what was done to the front end. I'm thinking about doing a build like this and right now going with different handle bars and tank. And modifying the seat area |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Armen on 08/26/24 at 20:33:33 Bohica88 If you modify a lower triple clamp to work as a top one, you can slide the tubes up thru the triple tree. You will have to use clip-ons, because there won’t be clamps for the bars. It’s also a much more sturdy top tree than the original. |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Bohica88 on 08/26/24 at 21:10:54 What bike does the lower triple tree come from? And how is it modified |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Armen on 08/27/24 at 03:33:57 The stock Savage lower tree. Get one on Ebay. Theres a piece somewhere here on the forum on how to do it. |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Dave on 08/27/24 at 03:46:44 07342B2328460 wrote:
I have one you can purchase! ;) http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1614946050/0#0 |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by ohiomoto on 08/27/24 at 07:52:46 78555253595B02023A0 wrote:
It's your bike and you can build it however you like. The only rule here is that the fork lowers must NOT hit the lower triple clamp with the fork springs removed. http://https://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Forks.jpg RYCA used longer shocks (13" vs 10.5") and shortened the forks by 2 inches. Many of the cafe builds did the same or similar. I kept the stock shocks and shortened the forks. Others have the stock forks with longer shocks. It just depends on what you are trying to accomplish with looks and performance. There are three ways to lower the forks. RYCA used a 2" spacer to reduce the travel of the fork. This will lower the front while keeping the stock handlebar clearance, but you lose 2" of fork travel. This is probably the most common method. I did this but I wasn't happy with the reduced travel and later moved on to a different method. The second method is to purchase an aftermarket clamp (https://dcmotive.com/products/triple-clamps) or modified top clamp ( like Dave's) that will allow you slide the tubes up to lower the front end. This method retains full travel and is adjustable. It perfect if you plan to use clip-on bars (https://dcmotive.com/products/p/aluminum-clip-ons) but can interfere with some standard bars. (DC Motive is operated by a forum member SpamyToo (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?action=viewprofile;username=6142535F4B665D5D320).) Or you can have the tubes cut down and new threads cut threaded to shorten the overall length of the forks. This is what I ended up doing. Dave had set done this way as well. It retains the stock travel and looks. The drawback is you have to send them to a competent machinist. Dave and I used Gordy Goodworks (https://gordysgoodworks.com/). He does great work but it can take a while. At one point I wondered if I was going to get my forks back, but I did and it worked out great. You can see how he does it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNiblp32Qq0 http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/IMG_20190422_125831689.jpg |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Bohica88 on 08/27/24 at 12:55:32 What about forks from another suzuki cafe bike? Which ones? I'm just gathering information right now |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Dave on 08/27/24 at 13:31:35 123F383933316868500 wrote:
Changing forks to something from another bike is not a simple task in most cases. The Intruder forks can be swapped over - but you will also need the triple clamps, brakes, front wheel, etc. as those items from the Savage won't fit the Intruder forks which are wider. I also believe the Intruder forks are longer and will not help to make the Cafe' look you are after. |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Bohica88 on 08/27/24 at 13:34:45 Ok good to know. Is there already a stock spacer in the tube's? I had to re do the lower fork bearing and upper as the lower was packed with old grease and dirt. |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Dave on 08/27/24 at 13:38:50 There are no spacers in the lower forks from the factory. If you install spacers you begin to limit the amount of travel and need to stiffen up the springs to prevent the forks from bottoming out with the reduced travel. RYCA installed spacers to get the front down 2" from stock - the ride is reported to be horrible! Dropping the forks in the yoke or having the tubes shortened retains the full travel and ride quality. |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Bohica88 on 08/27/24 at 13:47:46 Hmmm when I took off the tube caps there were smaller tube's inside. Are those spacers or no? |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by ohiomoto on 08/27/24 at 16:10:18 Those are preload spacers. They do not reduce travel. Travel reducing spacers are installed in the lower fork. It's a common practice, but it's as crud as the forks on the bike. I would use one of the other methods. Google is your friend... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaPwtm2AX0 |
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Title: Re: Starting a Cafe Build! Read sets and Swingarm Post by Dave on 08/27/24 at 18:09:53 624F484943411818200 wrote:
As Ohio said - that is how the preload on the springs is adjusted. The length of those can be adjusted to tune the forks to your weight - or make adjustments for any weight or chassis change you create on the bike. Installing longer rear shocks will move some weight forward and you may need to make adjustments to those spacers. New spacers can be made from PVC water pipe. |
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Title: Some cafe build q's Post by Bohica88 on 08/28/24 at 09:07:10 1.Why change wheel size? Tire selection and what else? 2. Are you raising the rear ends? Different shocks or different shock placement? 3. Why not use the stock speedo and fab a housing to mount on the bars? I was looking at it last night and thought it would look pretty sick up there. 4. I frequent the local salvage yard and wondered what foot controls would mount up and work with the least modification. While I have a grinder and welder I'm out of practice. I think that's all I have at the moment. Thought it best to put all my questions here rather than hijacking other people's threads. |
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Title: Re: Some cafe build q's Post by Dave on 08/29/24 at 03:34:27 1.Why change wheel size? Tire selection and what else? Cruisers use 15 & 16 inch diameter wheels with wide, tall and heavy tires. All that mass helps the bike stay stable - it hurts acceleration and cornering. Cafe' bikes emulate the "sport" and "race" bikes from 50 years ago that were looking for performance and speed. Norton/BMW/Ducati/Triumph and similar bikes ran narrow tires by current standards and they have excellent handling. A 4.00x18 rear tire was very capable of holding up a 400 pound bike with 60 or more HP - and can still do so today. I ran a 110/90-18 rear tire on my bike when I had a 2.50x18 rim and I never lacked for traction and the tire did not wear out any faster than the 130/70-18 tire I currently run on a 3.50-18 rim. 2. Are you raising the rear ends? Different shocks or different shock placement? Most of the Cafe' or Tracker projects use longer rear shocks to change the rake of the bike (along with lowered forks). I am running 340mm shocks on mine - which is really at the maximum height.....if you go any higher the angle of the swingarm is excessive and you have problems with belt tension. With longer shocks you need to run the drive belt a bit looser at rest - the belt tightens when you ride the bike and the shocks compress. 3. Why not use the stock speedo and fab a housing to mount on the bars? I was looking at it last night and thought it would look pretty sick up there. The stock speedometer is not all that accurate - and it gets even worse when you start changing wheel and tire size. Routing a stiff drive cable up to the handlebars is not easy - nor is finding a proper length cable. Using a GPS speedometer is much easier and accurate - plus you get extra features like a trip odometer. You can also use less expensive speedometers that use a magnet on the wheel to measure the speed/distance - you just need to mount the sensor on the bike and and a magnet on the rim. 4. I frequent the local salvage yard and wondered what foot controls would mount up and work with the least modification. While I have a grinder and welder I'm out of practice. There are several threads in the Bike Build Section that detail what others have done. For me the easiest method is to use pegs that have the lever for the shifter or brake lever built into the peg. This saves you the trouble of having to fabricate brake/shifter pedals and the bearings. Making the footpegs and control levers is one of the most labor intensive parts of building a Cafe' or Tracker. Most modern motorcycles use a hydraulic rear brake and the brake pedal is not configured for a brake cable - so adapting pegs from a newer bike is not easy......and similarly older bikes with cable or lever activated brakes are often very cumbersome to adapt the mounts I think that's all I have at the moment. Thought it best to put all my questions here rather than hijacking other people's threads. If you go look through the Bike Builds you will see how others have built peg mounts for their bikes. |
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