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Message started by Norwegiandood on 08/22/24 at 02:36:50

Title: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage engine
Post by Norwegiandood on 08/22/24 at 02:36:50

Hello everyone. I’m having trouble starting my Savage (Ryca CS-1 rebuild)

The decompression solenoid works (single click), starter solenoid works (single click) when testing the starter motor removed from the frame.
The starter is successfully turning over (I have opened the starter, brushes ok).

Just replaced the old battery with a new one, measured at 12.9 volts. Measured the ground connection (picture), ok.

When the starter motor is installed back on the bike, a single clicks heard but starter motor does not spin and will not crank the motor, headlight goes out when pressing the starter button.

The bike hasn't been used for three years.Have any of you encountered this problem before and/or have any suggestions as to what can cause this?

Thanks for a great forum!

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/22/24 at 05:22:07

Just so I’m clear…

The starter works when you bench test it? Yes?

The starter relay (solenoid) clicks. Does the starter do absolutely nothing when the start button is pushed? No grunt, absolutely nothing?

I would check the positive battery connections at the starter relay (no corrosion, solid connection). I’ve had a starter relay that clicked but the contacts were presumably stuck and weren’t allowing electricity to pass.

I hate electrical and I’m by no means an expert. I usually become a parts swapper. That said, this aftermarket starter relay solved my problem one time. For $10, it saved me from torturing myself trying to comprehensively test the relay.

Since the decomp clicks, I think it’s fair to say you can rule out the clutch safety and side stand safety switches (I think).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08D6PBTBC?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by Norwegiandood on 08/22/24 at 06:06:50

Thank you for the reply,

The starter works in a bench test and also when connected to the starter solenoid when outside of its normal position. When mounted in place, it doesn't spin. So the solenoid is able to at least deliver current to the starter in idle.

Thanks for the tip, that might be worth a shot[ch128077]

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/22/24 at 06:22:24

I’m wondering if the starter is going bad. It works when NOT under a load, but too weak when a load is applied.

Here’s an aftermarket starter that worked for me. Much cheaper than an OEM starter!

I’d still check connections first and make sure the starter is getting full juice.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MSVUOO1?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by verslagen1 on 08/22/24 at 07:01:35

Yeah, the hard part about a bench test is knowing how much power the starter has when spinning (other than jumping off the bench and on to your foot from 3 feet away)

So, just put the starter back and repeat the test with jumper cables bypassing the starter relay. If strong it will spin the crank so be sure to have it in neutral.

But, while you have the starter out lets check the starter gears. Reach into the case through the starter hole and spin the gears with your fingers. It should spin 1 way and not the other.

If you ever had the stator cover off of a late model savage, there are a couple of washers in there that have a certain location to be and are usually placed back in the wrong location that locks the starter gear train up. So if it doesn't spin in 1 direction I would suspect that has happened.

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by ohiomoto on 08/22/24 at 16:41:13

I hate to be Captain Obvious but have you confirmed your motor turns over?

It's unlikely that the bike locked up from sitting for 3 years but that's the first thing I would check.

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by Norwegiandood on 08/23/24 at 01:30:23

Thank you for the suggestions, the solution seems to be your suggestion verslagen1.

Took out the starter and tried to turn it, but the gears were stuck.

Then I loosened the screws holding the stator cover and tried again with the starter mounted and yes, the motor cranks! Thanks again and for keeping this forum alive [ch128077]

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by Dave on 08/23/24 at 04:16:35

00213C392B29272F202A21212A4E0 wrote:

Took out the starter and tried to turn it, but the gears were stuck.

Then I loosened the screws holding the stator cover and tried again with the starter mounted and yes, the motor cranks! Thanks again and for keeping this forum alive [ch128077]

You recently had the stator cover (left side engine cover) off?

It could be that you got the washers on the idler sprockets in the wrong place. Both washers go on the torque limiting gear.....not on the plain gear.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1419905399

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/23/24 at 04:42:16

The old washer on the wrong gear trick! Dave shared a good thread, but here’s a photo I saved from Youzguyz.

Note: when you pull the side cover off, you could find that washer just about anywhere in there. The magnetization of the alternator rotor makes it hop off to various hiding places. It could be clinging to the cover, it might still be on the wrong gear, it might be stuck to the rotor, it could be sitting down at the bottom…just keep looking.

Oh, and get a new OEM gasket for the cover. The cheap aftermarket ones are junk and don’t seal well (trust me, I know).

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by Norwegiandood on 08/27/24 at 12:59:15

The problem existed prior to removing the stator cover (but not 3years ago). When I removed the cover, the starter gear followed the cover and it certainly had a ultra-thin washer mounted (which you say it shouldn't).

Could it be that the washer had been mounted in production to take up manufacturing tolerances? When I remounted the the cover, I left the washer in place on the starter gear but the gasket was broken, meaning that I got metal to metal without the distance given by the gasket and the gear was stuck.

The question now is: When mounting the cover with new gasket, should I leave the washer in place (as it has always been) or should I mount it on the other gear?

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/27/24 at 13:23:06

Put it on the correct gear (anti-backlash gear). Just FYI - there is another washer on that shaft on the inside (crankcase side) of the backlash gear as well.

If the washer is on the starter gear that engages with the starter shaft, it will bind. Also make sure the shoulder on that starter gear is facing the right direction. The shoulder side goes towards the inside facing the crankcase. This will ensure it lines up perfectly with the anti-backlash gear.

I don’t think using sealant instead of a gasket would throw off the clearance, but the washer on the wrong gear will.

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by Graybeard on 08/28/24 at 06:48:02

Just my opinion, but if I'm having trouble with something and the factory used washers that thin to keep things situated, I'd use a factory gasket,installed the way they did it. And I definitely use aftermarket gaskets on the clutch cover. I've used one that I watched the guy make. He got a disk, slipped it into The Printer, if you will, poked a few buttons, the picture of the the desired gasket pops up, he poked the Go button and the machine started cutting out the gasket. It was worth the twelve bucks just to watch the magic.. But if I am in a place where I know I Don't know everything about the ins and outs it? I'm going back as close to As it was the day it was built as is possible. Variables invariably cause various problems.

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by Norwegiandood on 08/28/24 at 07:34:49

I chose to follow ThumperPaul's advice, removed the washer on the starter gear and put it on the anti-backlash gear. Mounted all together with a new gasket and pressed the starter button, and guess what: The Savage started for the first time in 3 years.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and for helping out[ch128077]

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/28/24 at 12:12:41

WooHoo!

Title: Re: Help! Starter will not turn over and engage en
Post by JOG on 08/28/24 at 12:50:50

Good going.
AttaBoooy, Paul..