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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Brake Bleeding
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Message started by ThumperPaul on 08/04/24 at 08:42:41

Title: Brake Bleeding
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/04/24 at 08:42:41

Doing a little brake bleeding. Braking and lever pressure wasn’t feeling very good. Maybe some air in the line. Pads (appear organic) are like 75%+ life remaining.

Old fluid is a rusty color. No bueno.

Just finished up. Without even taking a test ride, it feels better. We’ll see.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by Graybeard on 08/04/24 at 10:11:12

Since the volume is so small, I wonder if a big syringe hooked to the bleeder wouldn't pull the fluid from the master cylinder. Just stop and add to avoid making it a hassle.
A problem I've had when using a vacuum source is air going around the bleeder. Might have to pull it out and put Teflon tape on it. Just keep it above the bottom threads and unwrap it when you're done. That may not be necessary. IDK. I'm not sure how I feel about Teflon tape bits in the caliper.
When someone lets the fluid drop so low it loses prime I wonder if that wouldn't be an easy way to get it going. Large syringes are available at the feed stores around here.
It's a good way to get rid of the fluid in the MC,instead of having to move it out through bleeding.

That fluid was pretty nasty lookin.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/04/24 at 10:25:14

My photo is about half way through the bleed job. Yeah, I’m probably not getting much out of the caliper itself with this gravity method. I topped off with fresh fluid twice and kept pumping until something resembling clean fluid came out.

After a 25 mile test ride, I’ve decided it’s just crappy organic pads. May as well be made of #3 yellow pine. I’m gunna try some new pads I have on the shelf.

I’d rather eat rotors a little faster and have some actual emergency stopping power. The stock brakes on these bikes are just barely adequate enough for granny riding. Heaven forbid you have to make a quick stop from 65mph.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by Surviving Philly on 08/04/24 at 10:36:43

I just used the organic EBC pads for the first time. These things are absolute junk. They wore down to literally nothing in less than two months. I couldn't believe it.

I switched over to the fully sintered ones. Immediately better.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/04/24 at 11:54:01

0F3E2A333130333E315F0 wrote:

Dang Philly! You go through parts that cause friction really good!! We're gunna start calling you DragBikePhilly!!

I'm not a fan of EBC brake pads either. I know this is a sore spot with Dave because he likes EBC. I'm going with the Niche semi-metallic pads that I had on Woody. Good bite without being too crazy.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/10/24 at 11:00:08

Since I wasn’t happy with the results of simply bleeding the brakes, I installed some new Niche semi-metallic pads this morning. Did some clean up of the caliper, piston, and rotor while I was down there already getting dirty.

Well, much better and that’s before they are even fully “bedded in”. How much is attributable to the new Niche pads vs. clean-up is unknown.

Here are the EBC pads I removed. Plenty of meat left on the bone, but they just don’t work very good. These are supposedly the upgraded EBC “semi-sintered” pads (FA106V). Not impressed - copper plates and it appears there is some copper in the pads themselves. Online photos show them being more grayish black with no copper color. I still haven’t met EBC pads that I like.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/10/24 at 11:09:21

Good meat still on the bone…must be ground “meat-like” product and not filet mignon. For the price, they should be filet mignon.

EBC FA106V = $40.
Niche semi-metallic = $10.

I’ll keep going with Niche. If they chew the rotor down to nothing in 1,000 miles, I’ll let everyone know. I don’t see that happening though.

To be fair in my assessment, I should reinstall the EBC pads with the cleaned up caliper, piston, and rotor, but it wasn’t that terribly dirty and the piston was acting fine.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by Dave on 08/10/24 at 14:12:36

The EBC F106 are organic and well suited to the Savage.

The EBC F106V are semi sintered and have copper in them - they don't work very well on the Savage....they just don't have good grip.

The EBC F106R are sintered and work crappy on the Savage. The pads are just too hard to make good friction.

I don't believe the Savage works as well with semi sintered or fully sintered pads as well as the organic pads.

I have no idea how you wear out a set of pads in 2 months. I get years of riding out of brake pads....20,000 miles is not unusual. Maybe city riding is harder on pads than riding country roads.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/10/24 at 16:31:42

Thanks for confirming the F106V don't work well on the Savage, Dave. Now I don't have to reinstall and verify it was the pads.

Maybe I'll try some organic pads and see how they do. I'd like to see if they work better than the Niche semi-metallic. I'm fairly happy with the Niche semi-metallic, but there is definitely room for improvement.

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/24 at 09:39:48

T/P stock brake is a pos on its best day. Resurfacing rotor , new pads and fresh fluid and even a s/s braided hose all help a tiny bit each. But it’s still a pos , adding all that to it is like hanging a new chandelier in a haunted house. It’s still a haunted house ! Save your money and just get a big brake kit from Shawn. His kit solves the problem. Just trying to lead you to water !

Title: Re: Brake Bleeding
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/24 at 09:45:33

But it makes for good reading. A story we all know the ending ! ;D