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Message started by Bohica88 on 07/27/24 at 17:41:56

Title: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Bohica88 on 07/27/24 at 17:41:56

I've done a lot of searching but haven't found anything on what people have done with the breather hose coming off the head that went to the stock airborne after they went to a pod or cone filter. The old stock airbox had a lot of oil in it and the hose coming out of the bottom of it didn't have a drain hole for the oil. My old filter was drenched. Which probably was part of the problem of why the bike acted like fit was bogging down at wot. Anyway. I went with a pod filter. I live in Washington state near the Idaho border so it's pretty moderate here. Pictures would be helpful if you have them. Thank you for your time

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Dave on 07/28/24 at 03:34:06

A very common solution for some folks is to run the breather hose into a small filter, and leave it dangling somewhere.

I built a small metal box with in inlet and outlet tube, and a drain tube that used the plastic cap from the stock airbox. I mounted it on the flat shelf on the muffler mount in front of the rear tire. The box is filled inside with stainless steel scrubby material. The hose from the top of the engine goes down to the metal box, then the hose from the box goes up to the rubber boot on the carb inlet (I have a large UNI foam filter). The inlet adapter is made from a double sided push tubing connector with one side cut off, and it is pushed into the rubber inlet. I will get a photo of it later.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 07/28/24 at 04:57:54

The stock air box should have a hole with a drain tube attached (about 10” long). It’s on the left side of the bike below the air box, behind the front pulley, and in front of the rear tire. That’s usually where it is just hanging down. I have mine tucked behind the motor and shifted towards the left side rear of the motor (there a hose/wire crimp clamp on the frame back there I used to secure it). Maybe some California or European models don’t have it for environmental reasons. I don’t know why you don’t have a drain tube.

The drain tube can get clogged where it connects to the air box. Crap accumulates in the bottom of the air box or a mouse may have built his winter home in there. I had a bike that sat up for a while, and a mouse or some critter moved in. Remove the hose at the bottom of the air box and clean out the exit hole on the air box with something like a pipe cleaner, small screwdriver, compressed air, and spray it out with parts cleaner or engine degreaser (shield/cover stuff you don’t want to get the parts cleaner on). It can be a messy job, so protect the floor if needed too.

When I installed a pod filter, I just kept the stock vent hose attached to the stock air box. The air box is now a giant oil puke catch bucket. I check and drain the air box (oil catch box now) with the supplied drain hose when I change the oil. Since I’m already down there getting dirty and intimate with an oil pan and the under side of the motor.

If you removed the stock air box when you installed your pod filter, you’ll obviously need a different solution like Dave mentioned.

My 5” UNI pod filter butts right up to the stock air box. The rear side of the pod filter virtually meets up perfectly to where the air snorkel going to the carb used to attach to the air box. I removed the stock panel air filter in the stock air box and removed the side cover of the stock air box. This lets the pod filter get some air flowing into it from the rear and not just the sides of the pod filter. It’s not ideal, but it’s good. And I didn’t have to fuss with cutting up and fabricating the stock air box or removing it completely and it still serves as my oil puke box from the vent hose coming out the head cover.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Graybeard on 07/28/24 at 05:09:55

Dave's scrubby pad is a second place to catch oil vapors. The engine has one just below that hose. If you can route the hose so it's uphill for a while then the oil vapors that turn to drips can drip back into the engine.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 07/28/24 at 05:29:19

0237243C2720243721450 wrote:

I wish it was just vapors that convert back to oil. These bikes flat out puke oil out the vent tube from pressure. The harder you ride, the more it pukes. Overfill the motor oil by more than 2-3oz, and it will really puke!

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Graybeard on 07/28/24 at 06:39:15

I rode the snot out of mine,, at least, I Felt like I was. Not all the time, but enough to get my giggle on.. My riding skills are not road racer territory. I never had excessive oil losses out that tube. I did open the drain tube at oil changes. I never got 3,000 miles. I was running, EauxMuGawwd,, Ah,,Rotella Dino squeezings. Immediately after an oil change I could ride and ride hard ,get home, check the level, all good. As the miles added up, though, the same good fun hour would leave me adding a little. As miles continued to add up, that same fun ride would need more oil. I would change it just so I didn't hafta worry about running low. Around 2,000 miles was where I generally would do a.
IDK if synthetic would have been different. I'm guessing the Dino squeezings were getting their molecular chains sheared in the transmission gears?

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Dave on 07/28/24 at 08:00:02

Sustained rpm in the upper speed ranges tend to create more oil blow by for the Savage. If you stay below 60mph and ride casually there us very little oil that comes out the airbox drain.

Sustained interstate riding at 70mph and above with stock gearing - you better start checking your oil level frequently.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Bohica88 on 07/28/24 at 16:35:42

Thanks guys. I've gotten alot done on the bike today. Got the rear light mounted the new seats mounted as well as the tank with new rubber since it didn't have any when I got it. I ordered the raptor peacock so that will be changed out soon.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ohiomoto on 07/28/24 at 17:52:48

7D464B5C4D415A5C474F425D2E0 wrote:

------------------

My bike used a little oil when my commute included 25 minutes of freeway riding. My new commute is all "city" riding and it hasn't used a drop of oil between oil changes.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Bohica88 on 07/29/24 at 18:54:41

Dave, can you send me pics of what you did? My squirrel brain takes a few hours to figure out what people describe sometimes.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/30/24 at 01:36:48

Bohica, this old post provides all the details you need to make a breather system. You have your filter clamped right onto the carburetor; do I have that correct?

If your filter clamps directly onto the carb, then there isn't any way to vent the breather back into the intake tract (like Dave's). In that situation, a catch can/breather with a small filter on top is a viable option. That's what this old post shows.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1570415428

Paul, the setup you describe vents your breather directly to atmosphere. Air goes both ways in these breather systems, out when the piston goes down, in when the piston goes up. What you describe will result in dirt being pulled into your engine. You need a breather filter on the end of the hose.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/30/24 at 01:46:29

In the event that you have installed the pod filter on the end of the rubber air boot, then you can set up your breather system like Dave's. That will route the vapors back into your intake tract. This old post provides sufficient details to construct a breather system that is more Earth Friendly. Both systems are very easy to construct, and they are inexpensive too.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1655271553/0

Hopefully Dave can provide some pictures of his setup. It sounds to me like his catch can is underneath the motorcycle. That might be more appealing to you since it hides the catch can.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 07/30/24 at 05:19:08

DBM - I have the stock set up with the breather tube from the head connected to the stock air box. Yes, it goes to atmosphere, but the puke lives in the bottom of the air box until you open the clean out “puke tube”.

Yes, the oil vapors could make their way into the stock air panel filter (if you’re still using it) and ultimately make it into the carb and combustion chamber. This is a very common setup for all sorts of cars and bikes. Is it ideal, no. Does it get the stock air panel filter a little yucky, yes. Is it a huge deal, no.

With my pod filter outside the air box, there is zero chance of liquid oil getting on the filter. The small amount of oily smelling air that the pod filter sniffs is negligible.

And I live in Texas, not LA-LA land.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Dave on 07/30/24 at 09:15:49

This is the carb and filter photo. There is a piece of the rubber boot from the stock bike attached to the carb inlet. The boot was cut off in the back and a PVC pipe is inserted inside - the UNI filter attaches to the PVC. A 1/8" pipe nipple was threaded into a hole cut in the side of the rubber/PVC tube and epoxied into place...I did drill out the ID of the fitting to make it a thin wall and make the inner diameter larger than 1/8".

This is what it looks like with the breather hose taken off.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Dave on 07/30/24 at 09:16:21

This is what it looks like with the hose attached.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Dave on 07/30/24 at 09:19:53

This is what the breather box looks like. It was made from thinwall square tubing with metal ends welded on, and it also has studs welded on for mounting. The holes on the right side is connected to a metal tube that goes about 2/3rd the way into the breather box and it is connected to the breather tube on top of the engine. The tube on the left is connected to a short pipe that terminates high in the breather box and the tube goes to the carb intake. The yellow cap on the bottom came from the stock airbox and is removed to drain the box.

(Excuse the mud splashed on the bike.....there was a water main break on our street and I had to ride through it to get home).

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Dave on 07/30/24 at 09:24:07

The breather box is filled with stainless steel scrubby material that was pulled to loosen it up and make it fit a rectangular box (I may have used a couple of them).

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by verslagen1 on 07/30/24 at 11:12:45

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1662153993

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/30/24 at 16:25:35

Paul, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. When you don't have a filter on the end of the breather tube, dirt gets sucked up the breather tube when the piston goes up. That dirt ends up in your oil system. You stated that you have the breather tube hooked up to the nipple on your airbox and that you have removed the flat panel filter and plastic side cover. As such, there is no filtration for the breather tube. Yes, oil coming out will end up in the bottom of the airbox, but nothing prevents dirt from being sucked up your breather tube and into the engine. The breather flows "out" when the piston comes down, but it flows "in" when the piston goes up.

Versy, have you tried that catch can yet? It looks mighty fine, and I was hopin that you would try it and possibly take some manometer readings. The umbrella valve is a lot bigger than mine, and you have significantly more perforations below the umbrella. I'm curious if it will improve crankcase vacuum.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 07/30/24 at 16:40:17

Mike, I don't think I totally misunderstood. Yes, I was only talking about when it pukes out and not when it sucks in.

It is the stock design. So, Suzuki wasn't too worried about dirt getting sucked into the tube inside and at the top of the air box and then getting pulled into the head cover. And/or the stainless steel wad filter in the head cover is working both ways - when it breathes in and out. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'll just have to skip off-road riding.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/30/24 at 17:25:22

What you are missing is that the stock system places the breather port in the airbox downstream of the air filter element. The air available to the breather is "filtered" air. When you remove the stock air filter element, you provide "unfiltered" air to the breather port. All manner of trash is gonna get sucked into the engine, especially with the plastic side cover removed too. At least put the flat panel filter back in. It won't affect your pod filter performance and it will help keep trash out of your crankcase ventilation system.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by verslagen1 on 07/30/24 at 22:01:56

56505F23212622120 wrote:

Versy, have you tried that catch can yet? It looks mighty fine, and I was hopin that you would try it and possibly take some manometer readings. The umbrella valve is a lot bigger than mine, and you have significantly more perforations below the umbrella. I'm curious if it will improve crankcase vacuum.

yes I installed it before our last texas ride. 1 thing is for sure, didn't use much oil.
I'll have to revisit your thread to see how you set up the meters.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 07/31/24 at 05:21:31

Thanks Mike. I see your point. But it would be a crazy path for debris to find its way to the breather hose in the air box. The most likely offender around here would be dry grass clippings in the road.

I’ll put the stock air panel filter back in there (especially since I have a brand new still in the box). You make a valid point that I really hadn’t taken very seriously up until now. Thanks for putting up with my banter!

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Fast 650 on 07/31/24 at 20:24:54

What about a check valve in that hose? Lets air out but closes when it tries to suck air in. There is bound to be a pcv valve that fits that hose.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by DragBikeMike on 08/01/24 at 00:20:41

This is an example of what sort of crud is flying around in that airbox. My K&N at the 10,000-mile cleaning interval. There is a lot of trash floatin around in that airbox. I confine my riding to paved roads. I don't think my Savage has ever been off a paved city road or freeway.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/01/24 at 05:44:34

That’s definitely an ugly filter, Mike. I’m shocked you, of all people, would let it get that bad!

Maybe that big dirty vacuum sucks away any grim that the little breather hose vacuum might try to suck…. The big piggy ain’t letting the little piggy eat trash. ;) ::)

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ohiomoto on 08/01/24 at 17:18:48

Mike,

I'm amazed at how much you ride your bike!!

I know you are blessed with nice weather in HI but early on I assumed you spent most of your time tinkering. I was pleasantly surprised when I realized you rack up the miles too.

#extrarespect

:)

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by DragBikeMike on 08/01/24 at 23:14:30

The interesting thing about air filters is that the dirtier they get the better they filter. As they get filled up with dirt, they trap even more dirt. You don't have to be concerned about a dirty air filter letting dirt get into your engine. They filter better as the crud builds up. On the other hand, flow is diminished. That cruddy filter was flowin just fine, but if I kept goin without cleaning the critter, I would have started to see a decrease in performance as the dirty filter choked off the air. Oil filters are not as forgiving. You keep fillin an oil filter with crud and pretty soon the bypass relief lifts and lets the unfiltered sludge run all through your motor.

I have two of those K&N cylindrical air filters. When the one on the bike gets dirty enough (about 10K), I remove it and install a pre-cleaned and oiled spare. Then over the next 10K miles I find the time to clean up the dirty filter, oil it, and store it for the next filter swap. The filters look terrible after 10K miles, but there is never any dirt in my induction system.

Ohio, thanks for the kudos. The first few years I was a member of the forum, I was all wrapped up in trying new mods and engine combos. Testing those only required several thousand miles at most. Gradually, as I zeroed in on what I thought was the best and most reliable combination, I transitioned into long-term testing. Once I figured out how to make really good power, and keep the engine & trans in one-piece, I focused on proving the combo with bona fide long-term tests (minimum 10K). This island is a very small place, but it is drop-dead gorgeous, and the weather is almost always favorable. Testing requires riding. Riding is fun. So even if I see the same scenery over & over, it's always fun. Being a member of this forum is the best motorcycling experience I have ever had (been on 2 wheels since 1968). It don't get any better than SuzukiSavage.com. Always something to learn; always something to share.

BTW, I love your standard setup. My back wishes I had done that mod.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Graybeard on 08/03/24 at 14:59:09

You don't have to be concerned about a dirty air filter letting dirt get into your engine

I'm gonna pretend I'm Snopse and put up my imaginary Truthiness gauge and label that Possibly true,, and point out that as it gets dirtier and more restrictive the crud starts to experience a stronger sukkshion from the intake stroke. Couple that with the effects of heat and vibration on the old crud, potentially breaking it into finer particles that can pass through the filter, I'd tend to lean towards a Reasonably maintained air filter.
A dirty filter filters better, up to a point, discovering that point scientifically would take some time and effort. An airbox with two filters, separated by a few inches, would show how much the first one allowed past. New,clean filters are not perfect, I suspect. There are some variables to figure out, but I'm leaning towards
Blow it out every other oil change.
If you have vehicles and you don't have a battery charger and a compressor,, you are not doing it right. If all you have budget and room for is a pancake compressor, then do that.
How bad would it suck to have a tire low enough that you don't want to drive on it,but, no compressor? Just pump Fix-A-Flat in it and have someone deal with it? Nasty..
Sometimes tires need air,, pretty much Every winter the TPM on the car declares I have a low tire. Even a pancake compressor will fire off a 1/2" impact for a few seconds. Enough to break a lugnut. Stop when it turns on. The duty cycle on those things isn't great. Ya gotta let it catch up or it won't last. And it needs its highest pressures to make the impact Impactful..

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/03/24 at 16:07:16

This all sounds like my logic for only washing my truck a few times a year. The dirt acts as a UV blocker (SPF 80) and protects the paint. The paint looks marvelous when I do finally wash and wax my 12 year old truck. 8-)

Pounding Houston rains are my free go-between car washes.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Graybeard on 08/03/24 at 16:31:48

Yeah! I used to drive through the park at night when they were running the sprinklers.. Drive right down close to them, turn around, do it again.. Really not a great wash, but it was free and Fun..

And no, I didn't spin tires or mess anything up.

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/03/24 at 17:10:17

1F2A39213A3D392A3C580 wrote:

LOL! Run the windshield wipers a few times to knock the bird poop off (or smear it)!

Title: Re: Pod filter and breather hose
Post by Graybeard on 08/03/24 at 18:16:46

Of Course wipers.. And it was plenty wet for them to get the West Texas dirt off.
I think the birds saved their ammo for more exciting targets. Expensive, pretty cars. There was no glory in popping on my deck.