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Message started by ThumperPaul on 05/26/24 at 05:45:31

Title: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/26/24 at 05:45:31

Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced fork brace?

Super Brace has gotten very proud of their’s at $180.

TKAT is apparently out of business.

There are a few on E.Bay in the $50 range for the Suzuki DR650 and DRZ400. Any chance one of these would fit? And how good would it be for only $50.

I liked the TKAT that was on Woody. I should have pulled it before I sold Woody.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Surviving Philly on 05/26/24 at 06:01:18

Honestly I don't think they are worth using. The fender already has an internal brace, I just don't see this bike being used in conditions in which the forks are flexing/twisting to any significant degree.

And this is coming from a total moron that actually bought a super brace last tax season.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Graybeard on 05/26/24 at 06:16:53

I Think I have the last T-Kat made. I had taken it off because I replaced the seals and had cleaned up and shot an epoxy clear on everything Up Front and just hadn't put it on when DaDumBitch ran me DaFuqOver,, so it's Alive and well, waiting for me to get some forks and resurrect a Suzuki.
I know of a shop that will do stuff for homeowners at a steep discount. If we had an order for several, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy would carve them out for a reasonable price. I think the T-KAT Belongs on the rides that aren't trying to be Show bikes. The streamlined, smooove, pretty one? It belongs on the dressed up bikes.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Dave on 05/26/24 at 09:13:39

I had a TKAT fork brace on my bike for a while - even when pushing the bike really hard I never noticed any difference with it on or off.

I think there are better places to spend money.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/26/24 at 09:16:54

Philly - Come on man! At least it looks slick. And even if I’m only imagining better stability at higher speeds, I still want one! Lol.

Dammit Dave - you’re probably right!

Graybeard - I think I’ll pass on some random guy that makes stuff for homeowners. These things have to fit perfectly if they are going to work at all. I want someone with real experience. Maybe he’d be good for making custom cabinet hinges or something like that. Wanna sell your TKAT so you have some extra money for new forks? Yup, ya need forks first to install a fork brace.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by och on 05/27/24 at 20:02:39

When I had my superbrace, my left fork developed a leak. Maybe coincidence, but maybe its the way the brace deforms the fork. I've sold it to a member on this forum, maybe he'll chime in on his experience.

Either way, I did not feel any difference with the brace on or off. The little S40 handles great for what it is due to its light weight, but if you're going to push it hard you best invest in good tires and big brake kit - much bigger difference vs a fork brace.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Ruttly on 05/27/24 at 20:36:33

Fork brace dramatically changes the fork. Most notably under hard brake n steer conditions. Keeping forks from twisting while compressing. Gives a fair handling bike a more predictable stable feel. If you got Shawn’s big brake then it’s a must. Super brace and big brake , one backs up the other. 8-)

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by LANCER on 05/28/24 at 03:34:47

I have a TKAT, I like it.
Ever seen a slow-mo video of forks in action, they do move in undesirable direction's.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Fast 650 on 05/28/24 at 09:33:56

Take the front fender off and you can see and feel that movement just pushing the bike around in your garage too. The fender stiffens things up a lot by itself. A T-Kat takes that to the next level.

If we get that new CNC mill at work before I retire I may be able to sneak in a few duplicates of the TKat then.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Graybeard on 05/28/24 at 18:15:34

IDK anything about setting up w CNC, But if it's possible to download the programming that it uses to make the cuts,then maybe having that on a thumb drive could be used later and save the set up costs if someone needed to hire a shop to make some.
It's okay to laugh if that is just Stewpid.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Michael Moore on 05/28/24 at 19:31:04

I think most CNC machine operators are not going to go with downloaded G-code. Each controller is somewhat different on what it will accept with out loud crashing noises. What you want to use between machines (or their CAM software) is the CAD model. Then the CAM software runs against the solid model and comes up with G-code that it thinks is appropriate.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Graybeard on 05/28/24 at 19:36:29

2C08020900040D2C0E0E1304610 wrote:

Yeah, that is Exactly what I thought just as soon as I hit Send.

It's not Lying if I'm just kidding, right?
Well,, I was hoping I had a good idea..

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/30/24 at 12:39:39

I like the idea. Somebody should make these things for the Savage. The Super Brace is too expensive at $180 for me to want it that bad.

The Chinese fork braces for the DR650 and DR400 are only like $50 with free shipping. A high quality one, for $100 or less, for the Savage would be tempting.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by stewmills on 05/30/24 at 13:49:10

I have a TKAT on my Savage. Worth it IMO if you are real aggressive in the twisties.

I have the attached $40 job (from scamazon) on my Honda NC700x since TKAT was not available. Cheap, yes. Does it help, can't really tell, but it adds more than $40 in peace-of-mind knowing it's there when I want to hot dog it into some twisties.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/30/24 at 14:21:50

Was hoping someone had tried some model from Amazon or E.Bay that would fit the Savage. Something out there has to have the same diameter forks and length between the forks. Or is the Savage really that unique in dimensions?

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by verslagen1 on 05/30/24 at 17:16:26

well... I see fork braces for a yamaha ls650 np41a on flea bay but they list the dim's as 58x195mm and they're similar looking

I measured the fork legs as 58 but the fork centers as 190

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/30/24 at 18:10:51

Thanks for the dimensions, Verslagen! That’s a good starting point to find something.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/31/24 at 07:24:29

Verslagen, I reached out to the lowest priced seller for this brace (there are like 5 sellers of the same brace all referring to the bike as a Yamaha LS650).

This seller changed their description based on my input (see link). I also advised that the Savage and S40 are the same bike.

I am still going back and forth with the seller to confirm 58x190mm dimensions. I want to make sure they aren't trying to play me.

Did the forks ever change dimensions between 1986 Savage to 2019 S40? If they did, I'd like to correct myself with the seller.

I'm considering buying it and testing the fit. If the seller will offer a full refund including return shipping if it doesn't fit, I'll give it a shot. I'm wheeling and dealing with the seller now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196281572806?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=26&ch=osgood&euid=8dad0d9971044318aaaa02276dd1df8e&bu=43197327431&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20240530193341&segname=11051

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by verslagen1 on 05/31/24 at 07:51:32

Cool, 1 down, 5 billion to go (and that's just the 1's we know about) ;D

In 2005, they added the bug deflectors. I don't know the dim's for those but I know the CTC did not change.

They also have a model with bug deflectors for other bikes. I wonder if they can add those on.

And I like fork boots, so if they had extensions to mount those it would add to their market share.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/31/24 at 09:01:46

I hear ya! My 2006 has the bug deflectors. I guess those have to be removed to install the brace. It doesn’t seem that they will slide down. Is there some kind of channel on the inside diameter that holds them in place?

Also, I just measured 59mm (maybe 58.9). I think I need a new battery in my digital caliper. You sure 58mm is accurate?

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by stewmills on 05/31/24 at 12:44:31

0539243C2134230130243D510 wrote:

Yes. There is a channel in the forks and a raised corresponding rib inside the deflector. To remove the deflector you use a soft wooden wedge and lightly hammer it upwards from the bottom of the deflector and it will eventually slip up and over.

With some electrical tape strategically wrapped and wedged under the brace before tightening you can keep the deflectors in place resting on the brace.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by stewmills on 05/31/24 at 12:44:53

pic 2

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/31/24 at 13:19:09

Thanks stewmills. Great info and appreciate the pics! Is your TKAT brace low enough below the deflectors that the deflectors go back in their original place?

Nice looking bike! Fork brace looks tough! Shiny! And crash bars!

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by verslagen1 on 05/31/24 at 16:19:29

My fork brace is installed flush with the top, but there's some clearance with the fender so you could lower it and have some room place them on the top, just not to the point that they were originally installed.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/01/24 at 06:14:54

Thanks Verslagen. It was my understanding that the fork brace needed to be installed flush at the top. I see what you mean now about having the deflectors built into the brace.

Looking at all the braces on the market, it occurs to me that all the stress is being put on the fasteners (Allen screws or whatever). Am I thinking about this correctly? They better be some pretty dang strong screws if I’m right. Even the expensive SuperBrace is designed this way.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by stewmills on 06/03/24 at 07:54:27

7C405D45584D5A78495D44280 wrote:

Thanks stewmills. Great info and appreciate the pics! Is your TKAT brace low enough below the deflectors that the deflectors go back in their original place?

Nope. I don't think any fork brace will allow you to use the factory slots (but if someone says they did I'll stand down). What I did was get everything loosely fitted up, then ran several loops of black electrical tape around the deflector bottom ring (can't do it in the front where the deflector raises up) for a couple of loops around the ring then down between the fork and brace. Wrap it where when you're wrapping on the downward leg it is on the inside. Once I have as many loops as I want, I pull the tape down from the bottom of the brace (pulling on the extra length coming out of the bottom between the fork and the brace) barely snug (not TIGHT or it will loosen itself in the really hot summer), and snugged the brace up to pinch the tape in place. Use a razor to carefully cut off the excess. It will hold for about a year, depending on your riding and exposure, etc. but when it gets wiggly I just undo and re-do the tape and go again.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/03/24 at 08:57:56

Creative. I’m not married to the bug deflectors and probably just remove them if I get a brace. They have very limited effectiveness in my opinion (almost purely cosmetic).

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Zoltan on 06/05/24 at 06:57:40

I'd also be interested of an el cheapo brace... After taking off the 2kg front fender and installing that dirtbike fender, the front definitely went butter. I can actually see it twisting even if I just slam the brake in the garage... ThumperPaul, do not forget to tell us if the stuff from amazon works please! :D

If you are interested, fork boots for Benelli 400 match the LS pretty well. I have them on with zipties. (I'm not sure if you get those Benellis in US though... I could not find anything else that would fit the LS forks here in EU)

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/05/24 at 16:52:52

Hey Zoltan. I've postponed buying one off ebay for now. Although the seller did confirm everything that indicates it would fit. The seller even changed their listing title to say Suzuki Savage LS650 instead of Yamaha Savage based on our conversations. But the listing still say 195mm and Verslagen measured 190mm. Seller says it’s 190mm in a message. (hmmm, am I being played for a sale?)

I also told them to include 2005-2019 S40 Blvd, but I guess they haven't gotten that far in modifying the description/fitment guide.

Go for it if you're ready to jump! Here's a link to it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196281572806

I'm actually in discussions with a manufacturer to produce 20 braces since there seems to be a market need. I've asked them to replicate (basically copy) the "Superbrace" and so far so good in conversations.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Surviving Philly on 06/05/24 at 21:50:19

Thumper I'll sell you my super brace for way cheaper than a new one. I actually pulled mine and went back to fork gaitors, honestly don't plan to be using it. Let me know if interested

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/06/24 at 11:40:20

Hey Philly. Appreciate your offer! I'll definitely think about it. Let me see how talking to this manufacturer pans out. I'll private message you if I decide to go with a super brace.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Surviving Philly on 06/06/24 at 15:08:14

Sounds good, it's not going anywhere. Was barely used, I'm willing to part with it for $100 bucks, just throwing it out there for you or anyone else interested.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/06/24 at 15:44:15

Thanks. I know you didn’t feel it did very much, but why remove it? Can’t you have the fork boots and the brace? Or does the brace take up some of the space/location needed for the boots?

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Surviving Philly on 06/06/24 at 17:09:18

The brace sits right on the lip. I'd rather have the boots -- reason being ive replaced these fork seals before, there is a ton of dust, grit and grime in Philadelphia. Between the literally constant new construction and the condition of many of our roads you would think it was the third world.

I ride this bike every day. All year. Over needles, condoms, destroyed roads, homeless people, everything. The forks will, in some circumstances, twist. But at the speeds I'm typically riding, I don't have significant fear of a tank slapper. I've crashed. A lot. Slow aides and one bad high side. Once at 50 mph going literally through the intersection of second and market on my side.

I bought the brace thinking I would have some amazing handling response. I didn't get that. I did get stiffness that I think might be more appropriate for highway miles, I don't think it's totally useless, I just think it's not appropriate for what I do. I'm a social worker making home visits and encampment visits in the most dangerous parts of the United states, but I don't do much highway riding.

Anyway it was overpriced, and a waste of money.... For myself.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/06/24 at 17:35:58

I knew you were a social work. God bless you for the work you do and the hell you go through to do it!

I can see your point about the brace. Woody with the TKAT brace did seem more stable at higher speed than the other Savages/S40s I've had.

Yup, try to get $100 of your money back out of it so you can spend it on something else you can get more use out of. Sorry it didn't work out for you!

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Surviving Philly on 06/06/24 at 17:39:01

Thumper just curious, you still have the tkat brace? Is there a reason you want to replace this? Maybe I should read through the rest of the thread.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/07/24 at 06:13:06

I should have removed the TKAT before I sold Woody! I don’t know if the new owner even noticed or cared. Wish I had kept it!

I was just in the garage looking at the forks and fender again. I can’t grasp how the ‘flat’ superbrace is able to fit. If you clamp it to the top of the fork, it looks like the center portion of the brace won’t be able to clear the height of the fender.

Do you have a photo of it installed? Most of the braces I see, including the TKAT, are elevated over the fender so it will clear and fit. Maybe my ruler is deceiving my eyes.

Or anyone else reading, do you have a photo of the superbrace installed?

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Graybeard on 06/07/24 at 08:13:15

The way I did that was putting thin cardboard on the fender. Shoebox type.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/07/24 at 10:07:39

6E5B48504B4C485B4D290 wrote:

The way I did that was putting thin cardboard on the fender. Shoebox type.

I'm not following your comment. It sounds like your using the carbboard to keep the brace from touching the fender during installation.

Does the superbrace actually have enough room above the fender? I don't see enough room using a ruler as a level. Got any pictures?

EDIT: I think I figured it out. Is the superbrace bowed across the center (following the shape/lines of the fender)? Photos are making it look completely flat. I can't envision how it positions over the fender - it looks like the fender would be in the way of it going straight accross.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by och on 06/07/24 at 13:10:55

This is what happened to my bike shortly after I installed the super brace. The stains you see on the asphalt are from the leaking fork oil.

The superbrace has since been removed and sold, and the fork seal has been replaced, but the new seal is leaking again less than a year later.

Might be a coincidence, but maybe the superbrace has deformed my fork tube where the seal wont seal properly.

http://https://i.imgur.com/P2hYdkD.jpeg

http://https://i.imgur.com/TGecYv6.jpeg

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Michael Moore on 06/07/24 at 13:33:41

It isn't an easy "bolt on" mod, but a fork brace can be avoided by having a large OD front axle that is firmly clamped to the fork. When I built my F750 Laverda racer I used an RD350 front hub and bored it and the fork sliders so I could use a 25mm OD axle. Large axles like that are not uncommon on modern "hypersports" motorcycles.

http://https://motoconstructor.com/graphics/Laverda/LavSF2RRMK5012a4.jpg

The hanger for the large 2-piston Brembo caliper and disc center for a JFZ dirt-track car disc are parts that I made. The forks are 38mm Cerianis.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by ThumperPaul on 06/07/24 at 14:14:41

Thanks for the photo Och. It confirms my hunch that the superbrace is bent/bowed to contour over the fender (not 100% flat like some photos show). I think your fork seal leak is a coincidence unless you really got after torquing down the superbrace to the point of deforming the fork (you are a big strong guy though so you might have done that!! lol). I don’t think the brace could constrict down on the fork that much.

Michael - that’s a great upgrade, but I can barely do bolt-on mods without breaking something!

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Surviving Philly on 06/07/24 at 14:51:07

It's flat on the top and bowed on the underside. I agree that the leak is probably coincidental -- not that I'm a fan of this product particularly. I know opinions about fork braces vary, for myself I genuinely don't see a difference between the brace being on and running literally zero support as I do currently.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by och on 06/07/24 at 15:27:51

There is no way to deform the tube by over torquing the bolts on the superbrace, but I am thinking it may not allow the fork tubes flex as they normally would, and slightly deforms the metal. Just my theory, and I don't want to give bad reputation to the superbrace or any similar fork braces, but for me its just not worth the risk.

Title: Re: Fork Brace
Post by Michael Moore on 06/07/24 at 16:03:10

Paul, that was offered as an example of a different way to get to a similar destination, not something that everyone would be firing up their lathes and milling machines to do. :)

I sympathize, it seems like I've been getting increasingly less dexterous this last year or two and I have to exert more care with fine motor control tasks, but that still doesn't preclude an "ooops" moment.