|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> advchopper build /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1701093971 Message started by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 06:06:11 |
|
Title: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 06:06:11 Hi All, I thought I will fire off a thread for my project to ask questions, discuss ideas and show off a bit. ;) First things first, I'm a short guy with about 25 years of experience in riding bikes and fixing them... and since I grew up in Hungary with modest means, it usually meant a lot more fixing than riding. So why a Savage? For many-many years I've been a lover of all things Czech... I love Czech beer, drive am old Skoda, wear Czech army pants... had 7 Jawas over the years, including the first bikes that I butchered with ideas of modification. (mea culpa, I was 16) Rode a Jawa 634 and 632 extensively, even for longer trips with frequent stops to adjust ignition, fiddle with the carb, generally keep the whole contraption from falling apart. And I always really liked the clean nice shape of the Savage. Being a thumper too was very appealing, after all one thing you learn on Eastern block bikes: The Simple the better! So whenever i thought about dropping the 2 smokers I thought about Savage. I can't really put my finger on it, I just loved the shape and the great big sodding aircooled engine! ADVchopper? I must apologize, I know, silly, the name is intended as a pun. Smile to yourselves, I know, Savage is the probably not the best base to make it into an Africa Twin, but hey, If all your life you looked UP to the saddle of an adventurer, knowing that you'd need to carry a small stepladder to climb on, all you want is an adv bike. Am I right? :D Hell, I used to lower my Jawas, removed foam from a GS450 seat and tiptoed uncertainly every time i stopped the CZ175 that was my last Czech ride. It's a stupid idea, yeah, but i love the looks. And I do not intend to ride up the Tatras, only on nice flat dirtracks on the Polish plains. :D Ground clearance is less important than reaching the ground from the saddle, OK? ;) So... Ever since i sold the CZ a year ago, i've been hunting for something light and low... Especially loving the 1970-ies dirtbikes, but they are very rare over here. (I live in Poland) Cried over not being able to buy a Honda CT125, or import a Yamaha AG200. Thought a lot about buying a CM200, I owned one a few years back and it was great... Then the Suzuki came along in the local ads, and I ended up buying it. And it's awesome! Never had that big thumper feel before, I must admit, I'm hooked. So, that's about the reasons, I thought I owed it to you guys to explain my unholy idea. Let's see the bike and the ideas, the issues. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 06:32:00 The bike: pretty original, 1989 Savage, 4 gears. It has some 40k kms on the clock, but recording mileage on technical inspections is relatively new phenomenon over here, so that is to be taken with a big pinch of salt. Thanks to this website I did a through inspection/maintenance session: cam chain tensioner still has about 10mm to go (it's the original, not modified), and more or less everything is working. Electrical connections are quite corroded / dirty, I have good charge only with lights on, and i suspect that decompressor solenoid is quite weak. (more of that later) Tires were crap but otherwise the rest is in neat shape. Lately i went to ever lighter bikes, CM200: 120kg, CZ175, 130kg, so the Savage's 174 (got it measured at the local scrap metal yard!) feels heavy. Of course It's a 650, but hey, I was looking for some old 250 dirtbike, right? So the idea: Basically a tracker-kinda thing without raising it too much. Knobby tires (of course), dirtbike front fender, fork boots, an entirely different rear section, but I keep the seat, the belt drive even airbox, though that might end up thrown to the pyre at the end. It's wintertime here, so building time. Unless... with a mate we aim to make it to Elefanttreffen, so bike should be ready (even if I won't) by first weekend of February. So, what has been done? I promise, I'll upload the pictures. - Got an old rear fender, taillight from a bike that I rode to UK when I still had a lot of hair... It's a Jawa 634 rear end, so i figured i'll transform a bit of it onto the savage. So there's that. Also got some whatever dirtbike front fender from a project I had so we got that, and there's the MIG welder and some pipes. Got new tires on: Rear: Wanda 130/90r15, knobby, and pretty much the only one availble in this size. Not much info on it, so I'm not too hopeful, but if someone has experience with it, shoot! Front:Since Elefanttreffen is a stable 1400km there and back, I invested into a wintertire, 100/90r19, Mitas E07+. I read pretty good things, though not on a Savage. :D Built a subframe to hold the rear fender and be a base for some luggage rack that's gonna be needed. Installed the fork boots. (Benelli Imperiale 400 boots, they were pretty cheap, a tad short I think, we'll see if they slide down) Made a bit of steel plate with half of the original horn mount to hold the front fender. Very Fiddly to install and i'm not famous of having patience. There was some swearing included. But it's on. Front looks wicked, very weird but in the good way! Jawa rear lights with Simson turnlights (they were available and cheap here) installed, electrics to be wired up properly. Oh, and got original foot controls. Mine were even more forward and it was very weird for my short legs. The original is fine. As what i got second hand was a horrid mangled set of scrap with missing footpegs I installed .... Jawa footpegs. :D |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 06:54:04 This is where we start from: |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 06:55:21 rear section is almost 9kg! (that's fender, chrome sides, lamps, backrest) Quite a bit chunk! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 06:57:29 fabricated a holder for the front fender. (Unknown origin) it's welded to the top half of the horn mount. We'll see how it holds up, I'm not sure about the fatigue. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:03:23 This was the basic idea. (since then it's finished, painted, mounted) A U bent 21mm pipe (I believe 2mm thickness) that i had lying around. Mind you, my bending tools are limited, a bit more complex bend the rises up towards the end would be nicer perhaps. This shape gives good mounting points for: - top shock mounts - big threads at the end of the frame - mounts the fender at the middle And I wanted a bit of pipe to grab the bike when moving it about the garage / yard. This gives it. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:05:30 It mounts neatly to to threaded points at the end of the bike frame and just visible towards the front, slides in between the frame and rear shock absorbers. (there's a U cut to to that) On this picture I already had the regulator bolted down. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:07:30 Meanwhile: not mentioned before but got Yamaha Grizzly petcock. Perfect. removing/ mounting the fuel tank saves a few hairs and a few years off my lifespan. Huge difference, and I never trusted fancy vacuum things... Like I said before, eastern bikes, simplicity, patience. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:12:35 That's pretty much the present state: Rear section is almost done, rather cosmetic changes. Wanda rear tire, Jawa fender, Jawa rear light (modified to take a 21/5 bulb) Simson or MZ plastic turnlights. The U pipe is done, mounted with rubber grommet to the fender. That ugly long bolt stands out as i'll have to build a luggage rack and it will mount there. Ah, Jawa footpegs! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:13:10 I'm sure somebody will tell me how to add multiple pictures...? :D |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:15:50 And the front, Benelli 400 boots, unknown fender. Horn moved to one of those plugged threaded holes just in front of the tank. And a lovely Mitas E07+! As I do not want to get into too big a job before Elefanttreffen, handlebars will stay for now. (of course, enduro style would match better) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 07:23:19 Next job, nad help / advise hoped for: - checking decompressor. Might be my battery weak, in the summer i often had this horrid 1/2 second when starter stalled, then always pulled through and fired up. After buying I checked all, worked pretty well, but the issue was the same. Electronics works, decompressor cable adjusted... Can it be just too weak and it can't lift the arm to open the exhaust valve? I have seen manual decomp mentioned a lot... will it work if i add a cable to the handlebar with a 60-ies style choke lever? I assume you need bigger force than that. Of course, I can also make that lever right there on the cyl head, I've seen that done on the forum. -carb cleaning / adjust. I assume as a 1989 it will have the notches in the needle to adjust? Issue: fires into the air after turning it off. It was quite fun at first, now it's more like a redneck thing and I'm hoping in front of the post office it would quit doing that. No backfire on deceleration though, only if I go downhill for a long long time. Everything is stock now, airfilter, exhaust. It was serviced, cleaned, replaced not long ago, so new plug, new filters. Starts fine, and pulls fine. Probably could be much better, I can't compare of course. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by verslagen1 on 11/27/23 at 18:11:51 382A3F3C2431313E500 wrote:
The decomp is the type of solenoid that prefers to be very loose to work. and unless the starter stalls which means it didn't open the exhaust, you don't need to tighten it. If you hear the rata tat tat of the relay, the battery is too weak. Check the battery voltage while starting, if it drops below 10v, there's not enough volts to power the electronics and it work ever start. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/27/23 at 22:35:40 Yesterday evening I did hook it up to some petrol and hit the start button. All worked perfectly fine, the solenoid lifted the decomp arm, bike started perfectly (it's 3 degrees C in the garage and bike has not run for weeks) I'm actually impressed. So much so that i might scrap the idea getting the carb apart, after all... 'is something is not broken, don't fix it!' Solenoid is very loose, adjusted the cable according to the manual on this forum. Bloody good stuff! I'll measure voltage when starting though, that a neat idea. What makes it go bang after i turned it on? It's a proper backfire a good 1-2 seconds after you switch it off. And there's a horrible clank after the engine stops when you turn it off. What would that be? Is that normal? EDIT: Just came accross this from Verslagen in another decomp-related thread: "However, there is an issue at shutdown. The piston will sometimes stop on the compression stroke and the crank will turn backwards to release pressure. Going backwards will engage the one-way clutch of the starter. The starter is strong enough to resist turn and excessive forces will either break teeth or blow out the bosses supporting the shafts. This was fixed when they added the torque limiter gear." Is that the horrid CLANG after stopping it? Should I worry? |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 11/28/23 at 03:28:06 6F7D686B73666669070 wrote:
It is normal for the Savage to make a "Poof" in the exhaust right after you shut the bike down. When you turn off the ignition the engine is still turning and still pulling fuel/air into the cylinder for a few revolutions - but since the ignition is OFF there is no spark - so the unburned fuel/air mix is pumped out into the exhaust. The exhaust header is often hot enough to heat up the unburned fuel/air mix to the flash point where it ignites in the header.....and it makes a "Poof". One some bikes the "Poof" can be as loud as a rifle shot......a high engine idle speed and a lean idle fuel mixture can make the bang really loud. The "clunk" from the starter assembly occurs immediately as the engine is turned off and comes to a rolling stop. As the engine is slowing down and it comes up to the last bit of motion - it can come up on the compression stroke and build up pressure....but it doesn't have enough momentum to get over TDC. When this happens the engine reverses direction and spins backwards (sometimes this can also cause the mixture in the cylinder to ignite and spin the engine backward at excessive speed......I believe this is when the damage to the case can occur). This clunk will be heard in the right side engine case immediately as the engine rotation comes to a stop. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 11/28/23 at 06:18:47 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=376Ns8l6Q7M[/media] https://youtu.be/376Ns8l6Q7M?si=tZI0f3bBXq8O-lb4 http://https://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/911ee19f179ced45269a9ab158aff22b.jpg https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1371091600 |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/28/23 at 13:05:57 Yes, exactly as you described Dave. If it's normal and it will not result in like engine-exploding kinda experinces, I'm OK with it. Today i checked the decomp setting. It was at 5mm when i measure according to http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1169356966 Set it to about 3mm an its great now! You can hear the starter spin up, gain speed and then get the thing rolling. Apparently at 5mm it did not open the valves. Also bike starts great and idles neat. (2 degrees C today) I expected a bit more struggle to be honest... Also plug is rather black. Seems to me that it's too rich. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/28/23 at 13:09:51 Oh Wow! Watched that video and now I want to go out in the snow and play! Thanks, Ohiomoto. That bike sure looks like a lof of fun! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 11/28/23 at 14:41:05 The picture is from a build thread on here (not the same bike as the one in the video). I added a link to it below the picture in my original reply. It looks like your bike has the "head plug leak". You might want to fix it. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 11/28/23 at 14:55:18 2C3E2B283025252A440 wrote:
Don't worry about the color of the plug if you haven't been out on a long ride and got the temperature of the engine hot and kept it that way long enough for the plug to burn off the carbon that occurs at startup. A spark plug won't get to a proper color if the bike is not being ridden. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/29/23 at 03:52:19 Well, I did not get very far in the snow. More or less as soon as i hit the unpaved bit (we have a packed gravel private driveway for a couple of houses), so grass and mud under the snow it was not going anywhere. Couple of turns on the yard that was it. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/29/23 at 03:55:19 2F28292F2D2F342F400 wrote:
Do I? Shouldn't i see oil on the cylinder? What are the signs? Sorry for the ignorance, I'm used to 40 years old 2 smokers from behind the Iron curtain, they usually wear an outside coat of oil and dirt that keeps oil inside. That or they are not used just kept as an ornament. (Now that you mention it, I used to have a GS450 with 55k miles on it, and it was dry, did not smoke, etc... ) Should i see oil here? |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/29/23 at 03:56:02 or in here? Sorry lousy photo, it's pretty dry in there, though not too clean. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/29/23 at 04:04:10 Oh an another question. I saw lot of build without the front fender, (RYCA comes to mind) then read a lot of opinions that you need a fork brace... You know, internet, everybody is absolutely right in the big anonym void. So what do you think? |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/23 at 08:41:25 of course it all depends on your build/your bike but I know adding a fork brace will improve the feel of steadiness of the front. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 11/29/23 at 12:05:56 I could be wrong but it looks like there is oil all over the cylinder. http://https://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/P1010791.JPG [ |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 11/29/23 at 12:14:30 Also, you can post multiple pictures in one post if they are publicly hosted. If you upload a picture as an attachment, it is hosted by this site and you can use the img tags to display it. The only problem is they are often very large so I recommend resizing them before uploading them. I would be happy to remove the picture above since it is so large. It's your thread so whatever you decide is fine by me. :) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/30/23 at 02:36:53 [quote author=7572737577756E751A0 link=1701093971/15#25 date=1701288356]I could be wrong but it looks like there is oil all over the cylinder. [/quote] You are right there, the flash revealed it so much better than the naked eye can se from eye level. It looks much worse on the picture. If I have the plug seal issue shouldn't I see oil a big higher up on the cylinder head? This looks to me rather like cylinder head gasket sweating through by bolts, etc? ... but you are right of course. While writing this reply I searched a bit and here it is: https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1147053351/5 Mine is not that serious (or just did not ride it long and hard enough) but will fix it after the Elefantreffen. Thanks! Verslagen, thanks. Was there a difference in front fender over the years? Mine is thick steel (bike, '89 German market) but i think i read somewhere that there was plastic...? People mentioned the fork braces improving handling and they mentioned plastic fenders. Would a cut down U shape of the steel fender do the trick? I'm afraid that the shape of the fender is that gives it strength against twisting by the forks, so if i cut it it's worth equals to tits on a bull. Then either i have wobbly front or buy the bullet and fork over a wad of cash for a pro brace? Eh, I need to ride this thing first to see if it's bad (I mean worse than what I'm used to) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 11/30/23 at 03:30:30 Back in the old days I used a "free" host called "tinypic" for all my pictures....it was really convenient and I could post multiple photos. Sorry to say.....the place went out of business and all the photos I posted were gone, hundreds of photos and the threads are now trash. My 22 page Bike Build thread is pretty worthless without the photos. From now on I am satisfied using the forum to host the photos and I post one photo at a time. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 11/30/23 at 07:03:51 5C676A7D6C607B7D666E637C0F0 wrote:
I thought i'll be happy with the one picture per post just out of lazyness but now I definitely will be happy with it out of distrust too! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by jcstokes on 12/04/23 at 19:54:26 Smoker, for your memories. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by LANCER on 12/05/23 at 04:39:11 In 1966 I bought my first bike, a Suzuki 150 twin 2-stroke. It was black and the body design was very much like the bike shown. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 12/12/23 at 14:15:48 3138282F34303E285B0 wrote:
Oh Wow, lovely bike! We did not have them for domestic market like that though, fuel tank was different and we never got the separate oil pump so it was pre-mix. But hey, up until 2000s, we had 40:1 fuel at the pumps. Lot of 2 smokers back then. Wartburgs, Trabants, Barkas. Since then I don't trust air I can't see! :D I might still have some tools for that engine (634 or 632?) and definitely have an ignition setting tool somewhere! :D I had to set ignition every 600km... 3 days to England, 3 ignition timing stops. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 12/12/23 at 14:39:39 Got the first testride of the bike now that some of the snow melted. Front mudguard is useless... I think i'll put the old one back on, looks is one thing, getting all wet from the knees down is another. I think drivebelt is squeaking... did i tighten it too much? Also ordered an 18Ah bigger battery. It will take up the space of the chrome box but I don't like chrome too much anyway. I think i'll install heated grips for this Elefantentreffen ride... any advise on those? Never had one. Is Oxford Ok? Apart of that I see a swarm of suspiciously cheap stuff online. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by jcstokes on 12/12/23 at 18:25:54 Zoltan, I won't hijack your thread anymore, but mine is still premix 1974 634. Might have been better quality on the export ones. Rode about 22000 km 1976-80 . A rotating Morris Oxford wiped me off in 1979 and a sliding Holden Kingswood wiped me off in 1980. Never rode again until 2007 Suzuki GN 250 and Suzuki S40 2010. Jawa 634 last year. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 12/13/23 at 02:34:31 Hi Jcstokes! I do not mind a bit of Jawa talk, after all the rear end of the Savage is from my old Jawa 634. And you are absolutely right, export models were better quality. (We needed dollars badly to buy electronics that we could not make, eh?) Mine was 1982, and i think for domestic (aka communist) market they were kept in production till '84. The engine itself was not too bad, in fact people often used clutch and gearbox from 632-634 in the later 638 (alu cylinders) JAwa TS models. Interesting bit, the good old Czech arms manufacturer still built almost identical copies to the old cast iron Jawa bikes in 1987. I had one of those with 12V electrics, it was way better made than the more modern Jawa TS. You could say it was our Enfield. :D 'Built like a gun... 50 years ago' What killed them off real fast was the appalling quality of spare parts, especially lately. I think there are some manufacturers in Czech who still make good stuff, but the prices are sky high. You can have a decent front brake on your Honda CM for chips, or have a pile of worthless pig iron parts for the same money for Jawa. I find such data very interesting about communist economy. It's almost hilarious if it was not sad. Back to savage after i offed my own thread! :D Read through the squeaky belt section... I think I'll try to loosen it a bit. Hopefully that's the ticket. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 12/22/23 at 04:38:55 Not that much was done in the weeks before the Xmas madness: As the old battery could not hold charge for more than a week, I decided to get a new one and a bigger at that. After some searching with the dimensions I settled on 18Ah, and got an Exide AGM (even though i wanted a classic flooded cell)... I believe the code is YTX20. It's longer on the longest axle, and apparently a good 10mm shorter vertically. If I so much as look inquiringly at the starter button it roars into life, so there's that. No worry to pushstart it somehow in the snow and ice of a Godforsaken German hillside. :D |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 12/22/23 at 05:04:49 As the dirtbike mudguard did everything apart from guarding from mud and the old steel piece looks kinda silly on the knobby tires, I decided to bolt on a mudflap. I find it amazing, let me share with you... :D This is a pretty agricultural area and i moved here just a bit over a year ago... there's a small petrol station / hardware shop in the nearest city (point of civilisation... shops etc) Lovely things you can buy there if you have a tractor. Usually on petrol stations here you can have a selection of wines, beer crackers, teddy bears, whiskey (we have 0 tolerance on drink and drive...) ... pretty much anything you need apart from stuff for a car like for example brake fluid... Not here though, in that small shed you can get a new set of front leaf springs for your Ursus tractor. :D I bet you could rebuild your locally made pickup truck with parts from that Agro-station after you ditched it because you bought too much 'brake fluid' on one of the fancy petrol stations... :D You also get mudflaps. For the grand total for about a dollar-75... Mudflap cut to shape and bolted to the mudguard: |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by zevenenergie on 12/22/23 at 06:26:11 Do you mean they cut it for you and place it on there for a $75? |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 12/22/23 at 08:03:39 Nono, I meant that part cost about 1.75$. The cutting and fitting i did. The point is, parts for agricultural parts are hilariously cheap. I remember i had a tractor headlight on one of my old bikes as it was like a 3rd of the price for a universal bike headlight. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 12/22/23 at 17:00:35 I like your style Zoltan. It's very functional, resourceful, and authentic. 8-) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/02/24 at 05:21:50 Then you might like the next idea. :D I'll make heated grips using constantan wire. Found a decent writeup on some swiss website. All i need is a few meters of wire, some heat-shrink tube, a decent 3 way switch. This stuff is commonly used as the cutting wire to slice up styrofoam panels for building insulation, so it's available. (Well, everything is available from ebay...) Just tested the bike, and on a bigger pothole the rear tire hit the fender. I think i'll go for a size longer shocks. Do I remember correctly? Marauder 800 does the trick? I'll try to finish up the rough version of the luggage rack today afternoon and post some pictures about it. The new battery kicks it alive like a charm too! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/03/24 at 02:11:48 Actually I read up on the rear shocks and turned it up a notch to maximum. IS there a rough estimate of extra weight it takes on the back to compress to the same level? Like 1 click is 20kg or something? Probably not official data, but an empirical observation from someone? If it can take 10-15kg of load on the rack and will not compress more then before (now it's on the highest setting, and it was on the 1 before highest) then i do not need to get the taller shocks. Asking as it would be rather silly to load the bike up and start riding toward Germany to realise that i hit the fenders at every pebble i ride over. :D Finished up the welding of the luggage rack: |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/03/24 at 02:12:45 I hammered half a pipe over the horizontal pipe to give it some extra strength |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/03/24 at 02:13:53 It mounts to the top shock absorber mounts with a U profile that holds the frame of the bent pipe. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/03/24 at 02:14:37 I like the look of it, very simple and rough. Like the owner, really. :D |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/03/24 at 02:21:35 the rearmost U piece goes along the two frames on the sides and are welded together with 3-4 passes of the MIG. The pipes are joined on a 10cm length. I hope that gives it enough strength. The reason i'm posting all those pictures is not showing off... I never fabricated anything that needs to take some dynamic loads and frankly, I have no idea how this would hold up to vibrations and bumps etc under some 25kg load. I read too many blogs about luggage racks breaking up, and on the other hand i rear of a guy who made one of copper tubing for heating systems, filled with epoxy I believe, and toured Africa with it. so I someone can tell me if it looks sturdy enough that would be great! The whole thing is mounted on 3 points: - top of the shocks - center of the U frame that's the bike's rear now. I'm still considering adding it an extra tube from those sticking out bolts where the fender is mounted to the U-frame. that could give some exra support to the bottom of the frames on the side. I'm not sure it's needed though. Tell me your opinion please! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 01/03/24 at 02:40:41 Nice job - looks great. The strength of the rack looks fine - the whole affair is being supported by the "U" shaped frame rail behind the seat.....it is holding the fender, tail light and turn signals, and rack. If anything fails it will likely be that bar. If you could add horizontal supports that went forward at the bottom of the rack and mounted low.....that would add considerable strength. There really aren't any convenient bolts up there....you might have to fabricate a bar that goes across the bike just above the swing arm. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/03/24 at 03:56:02 Absolutely Dave. The U frame is bolted on the shocks top mount and onto the frame where the original rear fender used to bolt to. If those welds brake or if the U-bar bends and buckles it's done for. I'm sure I'd not want to have a decently sized wife sitting behind me! :D The idea of adding some horizontal towards the front is great! I'll take a look at that! Thanks! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 01/03/24 at 04:56:40 Factory racks use the passenger peg mounts on bikes when the footpegs are attached to the frame - unfortunately on the Savage the footpegs on the swing arm won't allow them to be used. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 01/03/24 at 14:45:15 That’s a serious lookin rack. Regarding your tire rub, you never want suspension set up such that a tire can rub. The shocks have hard stops. Those stops should limit travel so that the rear tire can never hit the fender. If your tire can rub on the fender, you need to fix the problem. Increasing preload on the springs may reduce the rub, but it doesn’t prevent the rub under all possible scenarios. You need to fix the problem. New stops to limit travel, different rear shocks that limit travel, a smaller diameter wheel/tire, raise the fender, etc. The suspension system must limit travel so the tire can never rub. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/05/24 at 05:09:15 Fair enough Mike. Would a pair of longer Marauder shocks solve the problem? (I seem to recall i read it somewhere on the forum that VZ800, Marauder(???) shocks can be installed and they are a bit taller. Does it also mean that they stop higher up (not longer travel, just longer shock) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/08/24 at 02:01:50 DragBikeMike, I think i can limit the travel by new stops in the short time i still have left. Is it something i can do with the usual tools and a big vice? I foud some threads about pulling apart the shocks so that's not and issue, question is, can it be done with human muscle or will the spring put me through the garage wall? (I even have a smallish spring compressor for cars somewhere but I doubt it will work here... can try though) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/08/24 at 02:06:07 Dave, I had that Rear U frame tested by the wife sitting on it. Let's be very polite with a healthy dose of self preservation and say only that it's north of 50kgs. :D It did not buckle. What do you guys think? Can i compare 50kg static load to 15kg dynamic? (like 15kg of stuff strapped on and hitting a speedbump at 30km/h?) I checked how it would look adding that bar to the engine mount bolts up front... Ech, I think I'll take my chances with the existing rack. I did not like the idea of that bar going forward. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 01/08/24 at 09:38:35 "Would a pair of longer Marauder shocks solve the problem? Does it also mean that they stop higher up (not longer travel, just longer shock)?" I'm not sure. You need to know what the eye-to-eye distance is when the shock is fully compressed and against the stop. Maybe Verslagen can comment on that. The longer shock may or may not have more travel, and the eye-to-eye distance when fully compressed may of may not be greater. You need more eye-to-eye distance when the shock is fully compressed. FYI, I routinely put my rear shocks (Progressive 11.5") on the stops just riding by myself with no luggage. I've tried heavier springs (90/130 & 115/155) and I still run the thing onto the stops when I hit a pothole or moderate irregularity. I'm about 200 lbs with riding gear. If you could get the shocks apart and remove the upper eyelet, you could possibly put spacers between the rubber stop and the upper eyelet. I'm sure that's easier said than done. This is the stop in question. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 01/08/24 at 09:40:17 The progressive shocks have a removable spring retainer. It has a slot cut in the retainer so that you can slip the retainer out once the spring has been safely compressed with a special tool. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 01/08/24 at 09:42:05 The stock shocks have a one-piece spring retainer and eyelet. I have no idea how to get the thing off, and I certainly don't know any way to do it safely. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 01/08/24 at 09:46:51 This is the Progressive tool for compressing the spring. It's pretty beefy. Spring removal is easy with this tool, but it's not gonna work on a stock shock. On a stock shock, even if you get the spring compressed, I don't see any reasonable way to get the eyelet and retainer assembly off the shaft. Maybe there's some guidance on YouTube. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 01/08/24 at 09:48:17 The retainer on the Progressive shock just slips out from under the eyelet once the spring has been compressed. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 01/08/24 at 09:57:17 Progressive Shocks had limiters for sale when I bought my shocks 10 years ago, and currently they are hard to find. They don't list them on their website, and most retailers don't have them in their catalogs or on their websites. I used these on my Progressive 412 shocks to limit the travel. They work fine.....most places are showing them sold out and you may have to search around to find a set. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pgr-30-5014 Part number 30-5013 are 1/4" spacers, number 30-5014 are 1/2". |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/09/24 at 02:12:24 I took off the shocks yesterday and measured the distance of mounting points when the fender sat on the tire... and can you believe it? Forgot the number... (is there a facepalm emoticon?) I must be getting old... Tried to compress the shock with a spring compressor i have for cars, but it's a no-go. I'm lucky it did not jump off the vice and took my head in the process. Then I tried to compress it on the bike and fix it with some luggage straps but it still has enough travel in the spring to prevent from reaching the nut under the top eyelet. (There is a how to in the suspension section about those shocks, the top eyelet is fixed on the shaft by a thread and there's a locknut that hides under the rubber stop) My idea was to pull it apart, dig up some rubber suspension bits from the odd boxes I have in odd corners for all the bits that "might come handy someday"... slap it together, and voila limited travel! :D Well. No. :D Mike, I'm 100kg (about 220lbs?) without riding gear and my suspension never bottomed out even on softer setting (It was on the hardest, but one notch back) I mean it when it still had the original fender where wheel can travel more up into the bike. Of course, It's an old bike, and who knows how big the previous owner was and what shocks he fitted. It just looks original. (previous seller was an old man with a big belly, well north of 100kg. But he had the bike only for a year or so. When I hade the wife sit on the rear fender it compressed only about a cm, so it's pretty dram stiff now. With the new fender I managed to get the rear tire rub on a bigger bump once. Then I clicked the suspension to a harder setting (to max) and this is where we are. I'm pretty sure that I will hit the fender every now and then if i add the luggage, so something should be done. :D I'll try to get the measures of the marauder shocks (I think they are like an inch longer) as that i can get off the local ebay. The neat new things you often mention (412Progressive) are kinda prohibitively expensive to get here. And I'll get the shocks off to measure the allowed minimum eye-to-eye distance :D Was it 22cm...? Darn! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/11/24 at 02:55:58 Luggage rack is ready! Painted rather roughly with a brush on epoxy primer. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/11/24 at 02:59:18 Even found a decent place for the toolkit |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/11/24 at 03:01:46 And I got really lucky with a soft bag off the local classifieds. It was very good price, and it matches like i would have built the rack for this. There are huge pockets on the back to slide in the frames of the rack so it sits like it was made there to sit. Perfect! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/11/24 at 03:03:04 bags can be extended to a total of 40L, that's probably enough underwear to drive down to Johannesburg! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Tocsik on 01/13/24 at 10:49:35 Coll stuff, Zoltan. And your brake light remains nicely exposed for visibility! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/15/24 at 03:25:43 Thanks Tocsik, I got really lucky with those bags! Tested the bike's suspension with a 15kg bag of pellets on the rack. Sadly rear tire hits on the fender on bigger bumps so i need longer shocks, no way around it. Also tested the heated grips... First time i had such thing on a bike and it's a really wonderful feeling. First time I had numb hands that are also warm! :D In case someone is interested making heated grips themselves: - about 1m length of resistance wire (constantan wire, styrofoam cutting wire etc) per grip. Wire is 12ohm per meter, so 1 grip is 12ohms, taking about 1A, so about 12-14W - wrapped textile backed insulator tape on the handles, wrapped the 1m wire so that the ends are next to each other at the inner end of the grip. (so a long U loop) Secured the end of the long U-loop with a bit of tape. - Soldered some not too thick wires to them and fixed it with a zip-tie. - used 50mm shrink tube and a gas burner to have a rubbery surface that fixes the heating wires. - got a switch for it (only ON-OFF but a lower setting IS useful. After 10kms I turned it off as it was becoming too hot) The switch got fixed under the console on the left. - power is taken from the position light circuit through a 5A breaker. This way I won't leave it on by mistake after turning off ignition. This was just simple for me as I had free connections for the taillight as I no longer have a separate numberplate light. Not too pretty but works. Considering that such stuff from Oxford is like 50 usd, you might not want to play with it, but the total cost for me was about 15usd and I have still enough wire and heatshrink tube left for 3 bikes. ;) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/15/24 at 03:41:07 the power source wire is fixed on tight by ziptie. Not pretty. But works. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/15/24 at 03:43:29 I put some shrink tube on the switch itself to make it watertight. I bought a watertight switch together with the rest of electric bits, but after receiving it I went to get a switch from a local car parts shop. Some of them are just horrid quality. I trust this solution much more. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/15/24 at 03:46:22 used a bit of metal scrap to form a U shaped holder for the switch and fixed it with double sided tape under the console. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/15/24 at 03:51:09 used the free connection in the white connector (taillight) and put a 5A circuit breaker in there. It's all very simple, just an ON_OFF switch. After experimenting with it I'd say You could really use an ON_OFF_ON switch and either make it 2 circuits and switch between paralel / serial connections of the grips (that's the simple method used even by Oxford) or add an extra resistor If you have a box of old parts and some chunky 10-20ohm resistors... I did not want to believe that 10-15W per grip will do anything too warm but it does get too warm. Mind you, I also used a muff on the handlebars, so if you keep hands out in the elements, you might want all the Watts. :D |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/15/24 at 03:52:18 Just ordered some longer shocks, I'll report back when they get here. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by zevenenergie on 01/15/24 at 09:10:00 Do it yourself heated grips. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by zevenenergie on 01/15/24 at 09:14:40 756A796A616A616A7D68666A0F0 wrote:
That's on my wish list. But do I understand correctly that you have warm palms and the rest of your hand freezes off? :-? |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/16/24 at 03:10:42 No, I get numb hands regardless of temperature. Probably something to do with my hands. It has been always like that on different bikes, different weather, sometimes even in the car... No, if you get heated palms it's like a really neat way to keep the cold out of your fingertips. I was sceptical a bit about it at first, thinking that riding gloves would insulate but i used my summer gloves (just leather, minimal filling) and a muff on the handlebars (some el cheapo Oxford stuff i got ages ago). After 10kms I turned off heating as it was getting too hot! Mind you it was -1 Celsius and I used those muffs so no wind was around my hands. If you are interested, I used this description as aid for design: https://atrophy.lock.net/do/hotgrips.html I omitted the Hi-Low settings, just having an On-Off, but I do advise having Hi-Low, and then you do not even need the switch to be at hand, can be hidden someplace else and just turn it to Low after like 10minutes . |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/22/24 at 07:34:36 As the date for Elefantentreffen is coming up fast, I was shown this old website about winter ridings, and DIY solutions. you gotta love it! check out the muff made of a pair of wellingtons! https://motorang.com/motorrad/winterfahrer_tips.htm Have fun! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 01/22/24 at 18:13:03 Oh my, that's not a site for sissys! :o |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by zevenenergie on 01/23/24 at 02:54:02 I saw this tip on there site: http://https://i.imgur.com/2x86Iw1m.jpg I always have my vision fog up when it's freezing and especially at traffic lights. This could well be the solution. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/23/24 at 03:26:17 4641404644465D46290 wrote:
right?? :D Those Germans and Austrians are tough! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 01/23/24 at 03:43:04 The Savage charging system is not robust - it is believed we only have about 100 watts of electrical generating power. When you spread that across a 35-55 watt headlight, a 3 amp tail light, a couple of 3 watt running lights in the front, and a few instrument lights, you only have 36-56 watts left over to run the ignition system and keep the battery charged. Some members who ride the Savage on short rides between starts have discovered that the charging system cannot replenish their battery and eventually they run their battery down. Changing to LED lights can help to provide more energy to run accessories. If your add on accessories are power hungry - you may find that the charging system cannot keep up.......I believe you should add a voltmeter to your bike so you can monitor the condition of your battery. There are a few USB/lighter style accessory sockets made for motorcycles that include a display showing battery voltage. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by zevenenergie on 01/23/24 at 09:32:31 Tanks Dave, thats good to know. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/26/24 at 05:11:16 Thanks Dave, Good to know that. I think I have a tiny meter somewhere tucked away I might just take that with me. I used to convert bikes to LED even back in the day when you had to solder your own LED panels for 6V bikes. I'll throw in some LED insturment / pos lights. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 01/26/24 at 05:33:05 Installed taller rear shocks! There is a lot of info here about 412s and I believe Serowbot has his bike with Intruder 800 shocks...? I must admit, 412s are available here, but for the amount of cash that is ... khm, ever so slightly over the budget. And 800cc intruder is not that frequent on the roads... 125 Intruder however is very much available, and that makes parts for it going for peanuts. Weights are not horribly dissimilar, plus I no longer have a rear seat... so... Yeah, I've done it. Now I know why the rubber bushing has a steel pipe bushing inside! :D The 14mm / 23mm-ish rubber bushing I could get from local ebay was without it, and it's an ABSOLUTE pita to mount the thing. Not to mention properly tightening the nuts. So If ever someone thought about installing it like car suspensions are installed... Better not. The shocks are now 31cm / 12,1" long. Do I have to worry about something rubbing? I kept checking this very website, and adjusted belt / brake, checked that small bolt just over the lover section of the belt that was mentioned somewhere... Anything else? And 1 issue: Belt squeak: Adjusted it like advised here, twisting it 90 degrees (tight twist), and it still squeaks, especially under load. Seem to be worse when it's colder, wetter etc. Never had a belt driven bike before, so is it like... normal? :D Also my front brakes now started to squeal, but I think that's now gone after a 15km ride... You'd think that one would be ready for a trip less then a week before it, but somehow it just never the case is it?? Thanks a lot for any advice! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/08/24 at 03:16:54 Se we went for this winter ride of 1400kms to Elefantentreffen. It was definitely worth it. The proud moment of setting off: |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/08/24 at 03:22:41 The ride there was colder, just over 0 Celsius, sometimes wet, mostly not. We got pretty lucky with the weather, it could have rained more, or be much colder. I could have been -2 and bone dry too, that would have been perfect. At one point the rain thrown over the engine by the front wheel cooled it soo much down that i had to set it richer with the mixture screw so that it would idle. We took mostly highways and 3 days, travelling only in daylight. Bike made it pretty well! The only issue I got was that once i set it rich for the cold, when it got like 5 degrees warmer it rode awful just off idle, which happened a lot on the highway, so I kept turning that screw and never got it right again. The new job is cleaning/rejetting the carb for a Dyna muffler, so it will be doen now properly. And we got there! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/08/24 at 03:24:49 Admittedly, there was a bit of mud... No picture of me tormenting the bike on the muddy slopes as I did not do it. Just parked in the line of hundreds of bikes before the gate and went to have a beer and perhaps something a tad stronger. After getting home: All covered with dried mud, oil, salt, rust: |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/08/24 at 03:29:05 heated grips worked perfect the salvaged free screen that I mounted with some rough pipe clamps and zip ties, worked perfect Longer shocks from 125 intruder were fine, newer bottomed, did not feel unstable. seat covered with a bit of dead sheep, perfect, actually, 4 days riding fixed my back. (I had a bad back just before) E07+ wintertire never slipped Apart of the lightswitch needing some wiggle to turn on lights and the idle mixture it was all very reliable and good. I did most of my touring on Jawas, CZs before and I'm not used to this at all! :D Very happy with the bike. Thanks for all the info from this forum! |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Dave on 02/08/24 at 04:30:27 Looks like fun......if you can tolerate cold and mud! With taller shocks you can get an interference at the front/bottom of the bottom belt cover. Some trimming is necessary to prevent it from hitting the bottom of the belt cover on the engine. For your mixture......you might have tried pulling out the choke to the first notch rather than turning your mixture screw. They both do the same thing and only affect the mixture at idle.....once the throttle is opened up a bit both stop having any affect. If you ride a lot in this type of weather it may be more desirable to raise your slide needle 1 more washer. Also just turning up the idle speed when cold may help to resolve the "temporary" affect of cold weather. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/09/24 at 05:15:12 Thanks Dave, I'll check out the choke. It feels like it would not hold though, the spring pulls it back at the slightest touch. I guess it's worn. It's a 1987 bike. Also, didn't those early models had notches on the needle with a circlip? Well, I'll find it out soon enough and there are tons of info here about jetting, adjusting the carb. A HD dyna muffler is on the way already! :D |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/09/24 at 06:55:43 Oh one thing that i have noticed and not the first time. I adjusted the decompressor already 3 times, and it seems to work a few times before it just does not. On the way to Germany i really noticed the spinup sound, then decomp letting go and thumper coughing to life. On the way home it did not do that. Fired as soon as i hit the button. As bike was mostly warm after longer-shorter stops for hot coffee on petrol stations, and battery is a bigger-than-original beast it just kicked it over and started. There was no spinup. is that something that the decomp solenoid does before parting with thy world of suffering? OR is it just electrical connections that are in my case 35years old and maybe I should replace them...? Of course, I also like the manual lever why not..? I saw someone making a decently small lever right where the cable pulls on the exhaust valve. I could live with that. (not like the bike often did not start... with the old battery it happened, but not with the new one) |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by DragBikeMike on 02/09/24 at 09:37:33 Regarding your belt squeal reported on 1/26, this simple mod should eliminate that problem. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1561964431 |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 02/12/24 at 05:49:14 Very neat solution Mike! I'll check the wobble and maybe visit that old fellow with the lathe over the hill. Neat that you put 20k miles on it and shared the test results! Thanks for the tip. I kept amusing myself listening to the ever changing singsong from the belt, the rumble of the wintertire and so on. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by Zoltan on 05/24/24 at 05:11:59 Sorry for the long break! Bike's been great, riding for small errands almost daily now that summer's upon us. There is a development on the bike. Installed a pretty nice HD dyna muffler. Pretty much bolt-on, though i had to cut the clamping part a bit, like 7mms, allow it to slide a bit further towards the engine. I needed that the clear the wheel nut enough. And the thing is quieter! :o ;D Gone is the big pop after shutting off the engine, and gone is the backfiring on engine brake. I also think it's a bit less dynamic but it starts and runs decent. Turned the idle mix screw 1/4 turns that was all. In all fairness, I do not mind the redneck factor suppressed a bit, people looked at me weird in front of the shops after the POP at shutoff. (Though i did enjoy it at first. :D ) But did anyone else had quieter, weaker bike after swapping to the HD dyno muffler? Very busy with house renovation, so nothing is planned for the bike now. There shall be another vehicle for the next Elefantentreffen, that's probably not a candidate for this forum. Everything works on the bike that i have modified, which is a huge surprise and success. The rack and rear section, longer shocks all works fine, nothing broke off or rattled apart. I'm pretty pleased. God a lot of nods on the local Distinguished Gentlemans Ride I was pleased with that too. |
|
Title: Re: advchopper build Post by ohiomoto on 05/24/24 at 20:00:17 The Dyna muffler on my bike had 3 holes drilled into the baffle. It sounded good and ran well. The baffle eventually cacked and I had no baffle. It was a little too loud and felt a little lean. I put undrilled Dyna on and it was noticeably quieter. I don't think it performs any worse under load, but it sounds less responsive in neutral. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |