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Message started by Surviving Philly on 11/15/23 at 14:01:32

Title: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/15/23 at 14:01:32

Hey savages,

I've been shopping around for a genuine Mikuni VM36 rebuild kit but can't seem to find the genuine article anywhere. Has anyone had experience with the Amazon rebuild kids? They all seem it be different, suspicious manufacturers.

Thanks

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by LANCER on 11/15/23 at 14:25:15

What parts do you need for your VM ?

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/15/23 at 14:39:54

I'm just about to do a cleaning due to a weird idling issue, wanted to get the o-rings and gasket before hand in case I find them all weird once I get in there. What do you think lancer?

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/16/23 at 05:59:35

This kit appears to be genuine. I ended up buying one of the $10 cheapo kits. Like you, I wanted it just in case and mostly for the float bowl gasket and fuel float valve. https://www.ebay.com/itm/155812598186?epid=14063129245&hash=item24472791aa:g:t5oAAOSwcyBlHutQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0HR2AJviN9W%2BV0AYxSHwp2e4Ft%2BXQKZ65%2FBsNhVWgMu9gtfSQx8CRA8bmVmDkn5AyqUieGW9mPMDhQZxgZsJXrKHr1IrznYsrHw1AjeJQhHteRERZIs%2BU9QCLo1Q0F%2FHPi%2F8MwP7QOqKf8Avi5bTyNOdO5ovNK%2F5kf5wFuZNM%2Bi%2FPKMOwPR846WAray2Y5ihtrXe80WL10jlZPNO%2BZh1RyDGQ3%2FnwFEQ4PT%2Bsc8iGEW8JnFsKc141xj2JA15joytV0njh6RKHgCqPog071UpIEU%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR87MzIb7Yg

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by SpamyToo on 11/17/23 at 18:20:48

I think VM36 doesnt have many kits because of the variability of the versions of it.

The kits usually come with these items. Here are the Mikuni part numbers according to this drawing and the associated Sudco part numbers.

https://www.mikunipower.com/Manuals/VM_Manual.pdf

I know I and Lancer both have Sudco accounts and could quote you prices.

1. Rubber Cap, Throttle Cable VM26/46 002-061
12. Rubber Cap, Starting System VM20/455 002-084
19. Gasket, Float Bowl VM36/20 002-102
26. O-Ring, Drain Plug VM28/254 002-531
29. Air Screw VM20/214 002-180
30. Spring, Air Screw M12F/46 002-181
32. Idler Adjuster Screw VM22/171 002-183
31. Spring, Idle Adjuster Screw M20/11 Not sure
33. Washer, Needle Valve Seat B34/52 002-187
34. Needle Valve Assembly VM34/39 Depends on what you want
38. Screw, Float Chamber 5x16 CW2-0516 002-373

It appears the VM36 doesnt have Air-Screw and Idle Adjuster Screw O-rings, but that seems kind of strange.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/17/23 at 18:54:21

Thanks everyone,

I was able to find a couple resources for future reference:

http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/mikuni-vm36-4-vm38-9-carb-rebuild-kit.html

http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/catalogsearch/result/?q=Vm36

Spammy I can confirm there aren't o-rings for the air or idle screw. This carb is actually very, very simple/easy to tear down and put back together -- another reason it's so great. Out of impatience I decided to just reuse my o-rings and gaskets, they didn't seem in bad shape, the carb was actually really clean in general but that pilot jet is so small I can imagine maybe some muck might have been causing my weird idling issues.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by LANCER on 11/18/23 at 04:36:12

What is the size of the pilot jet in your 36VM ?
I use a #20 pilot jet as a starter point for jetting/tuning for locations at or near sea level.
Besides the pilot jet, you also need to check the tiny passageways in the carb body to insure they are clear as well, because if not then the carb will not function properly. Use carb cleaner, compressed air, and especially a carb cleaning tool to insure those passageways are clear.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/18/23 at 05:27:37

Following... My cheapo rebuild kit and set of knockoff main jets arrived yesterday. Thanks for all tips here. I didn’t buy any slow jets and will just clean up whatever is in there for now. The short video of the bike running about a month ago before I bought the bike seemed to show it was idling ok. Interested to see if I find a #20 or something else in there.

Appreciate the info about no O-rings. And to put extra effort into cleaning out all the tiny passages. I have a bad habit of getting in a hurry on that step (note to self, do it right the first time!).

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/18/23 at 05:47:07

Paul,

The the disassembly itself this guy has a pretty decent walkthrough:

https://youtu.be/P6dV4ukCT1I?si=toyacmEKee5vcsL4

The only issue I ran into was removing the pin for the float arm, it was in there pretty good and the float arm is really fragile, feels like gold leaf. I ended up buying one of these from my local big box:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/General-Tools-Instruments-5-in-Center-Punch/1053205

Was able to get it out in one punch.

I would recommend being very careful with the idle jet/pilot jet. I think the screwdriver slot is for a JIS, and the brass is like buttery soft. I have a small, generic precision screwdriver set that worked fine but if it was in there any tighter i would have marred it.

Lancer I didnt check my jets when I was in there, I bought one of those Murray carbs, where you're essentially paying him twice the cost of the carb to have him pre-jet it based on providing him a picture of the bike, showing him if there's an aftermarket exhaust, etc. Not to throw the guy under the bus, but it's better to learn how to jet and tune, I was just impatient at the time.

Knowing what I know now I would have bought it stock with a jet kit and did my own tuning.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/18/23 at 13:35:55

Hey SurvivingPhilly.

Yep, the pin holding the float ‘rest’ was in there real good. Gently put the carb in a bench vise and then gently tapped it out with a small hand allen wrench and a couple light taps of a hammer.

I did end up scoring the top of the pilot jet. Not terrible, and re-usable. I barely got my go-to slot screwdriver in there. I don’t have a JIS that small. The JIS of a Phillips #2 is a must have for a lot of parts on these bikes (real handy getting the float bowl screws in and out without jacking up the screw head)!

I think the cheap kit worked. The float valve has a smaller bore than stock. A bit concerning and interested to see how it does.

Interesting - this project bike I’m working on came with a Murray’s carb on it. So I’m working on the exact same carb and set up. My wife and I spent 15 minutes trying to read the main jet size and we think we read #165. It definitely doesn’t say 195 or 200. It might say 185…. If the 165 is right, it is obviously a lot smaller than what Lancer recommends at around #200. I dropped in a 200 on Lancer’s guidance. The slow jet was totally unmarked or disappeared, but whatever it is is now clean. We’ll see what happens if I ever get this thing ready to crank and run. Fighting numerous issues.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/20/23 at 10:47:31

You may want to go up a size -- I think mine has larger jets because I have a 3 inch slash cut exhaust with no baffle (and it's too loud).

I think the air intake hose he provides is too short, no sure if you've run into this. I'm meaning to get another one once I get the time but so far so good, been running the carb about a year and it was a nigh and day difference from stock.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/20/23 at 11:51:45

I agree that the intake tube could be about 3/8" longer, but it still seals at both ends. The last Savage I swapped carbs on, I installed a cheap PWK40 ebay special. I used a 2" ID "turbo" tube. It came in 8" length and I cut it down to a nice snug fit. I didn't measure the OD of air intake venturi side of the Mikuni VM36. The 2" might be a bit too big, but that's the idea.

If I get the f-in wood out of my cylinder, maybe I can fire this bike up for the 1st time since buying this project. A #200 main jet will have to do for starters. I've got an aftermarket open exhaust too - some un-named thing that came on the bike.

I've managed to turn what should have been a fairly simple "clean it up and get it running" into a total nightmare.... Argh!! It's got a nice clean rejetted carb now though....

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/20/23 at 20:19:27

According to this:

http://www.motocarb.com/vm36-4.html

The intake side of the venturi is 62mm, which is roughly 2.4 inches. I think a 2.5 Inch intake hose would be the size to get, throw a couple worm gear clamps on and call it a day. Guess that's the lunch time project for tomorrow.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/21/23 at 05:29:53

That’s right! I used 2.5” ID. Found the leftover piece in the garage after some digging. I’ll send a pic once I resize it to the website’s limit. The nice thing is that it also fits almost perfectly on the air box end as well. Yup, a couple worm gears does the trick beautifully!

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/21/23 at 06:18:37

Photo of the silicone turbo tube. I bought this material because it's gasoline resistant.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/21/23 at 06:21:04

Just FYI - a pic of the "air horn" side of the PWK40 carb. About the same as the VM36.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/21/23 at 06:42:47

Here's a pic of an issue I found on "Woody". The throw (exposed length) of the throttle cable is over 1" too long. I can only adjust out about 1/2" with the adjuster at the throttle end and this measurement is with it adjusted out about 1/4" at the carb end. With a different throttle tube, I could probably squeeze out another 3/8". That's using too many adjusters and part change for my liking to get the free play right. I'll be trimming the cable about 1" at the carb end and then soldering on a new nipple fitting. After e-mailing back and forth with Murray and Murray's Carbs, this is the easiest and most cost effective solution. He wants too much for new custom cable that he didn't get right in the first place. I ain't playin' that game...

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/21/23 at 06:50:20

My cable has the same issue, I didn't bother reaching out to the guy, he doesn't seem too concerned with customer service.

There's significant slack/dead zone on the throttle despite having it fully tensioned. Been thinking about just replacing the cable, my soldering skills aren't very well developed.

If you end up soldering it yourself would you mind showing your set up and how to accomplish it?

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/21/23 at 07:01:11

Will do. I've soldered before, but never a nipple on a throttle cable. It'll be a good exercise. If I fail or screw it up, I'll be coughing up bucks for a new cable.

You can buy solderless fittings on Amazon (link below) that work on the throttle tube end of the cable. They are 5mm which is pretty standard for most throttle tubes.

I can't stand free play slop!!! Especially like this...It's beyond slop and stretch... (and it really can't be stretch because it's not under a lot of torque - you're just lifting a smooth action lightweight slide in a carb).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W497MVQ/?coliid=I3UXAES101X2XR&colid=1CBXBA6JVIT19&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/21/23 at 14:39:11

Interesting, I wasn't aware these things existed -- I agree w/ you though I'd rather learn how to properly solder cable ends, there's a bunch of YouTube videos about it, seems like a little bit of an art form requiring a delicate touch, and I've been known to be pretty barbaric with the cheapo soldering kits I've come across.

I'll look forward to any updates if you work your way over to that part of the rehab work you're doing.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/21/23 at 16:39:08

I spoke to Murray today. Maybe you saw my comment before I deleted it. He asked that I not share his secret sauce on the forum about the jets he installs and how he tunes, so I deleted out of respect (I get where he's coming from).

Let's just say, he installs a larger slow jet than Lancer's prescribed 20 and a significantly smaller main jet than Lancer's prescribed 200. He installs a 165. I' feel ok telling you that that since I discovered it myself and just sharing it mostly with you (a fellow Murray carb owner).

What jets do you have installed in yours? Did you change from what Murray put in there?

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by Surviving Philly on 11/21/23 at 21:09:04

Interesting. I missed the post, I suppose I respect his position but I don't think he's doing anything undiscoverable.

I haven't bothered to check mine when I was in there -- I'm pretty happy with how it is tuned in general, however from what I understand mikuni recommends the air mix screw optimally be out 1 & 1/4-1/2 turns, and my idle seems lean if I turn it out past 1 full turn -- lean in the sense that RPMs will climb, kind of hunts for a happy rpm despite idle speed screw adjustment, backfiring when I hit the kill switchh, all the usual. this does make me think a larger pilot could make sense, but again the bike seems happy now that I've cleaned her up and have properly set the mix screw position. Would really like to fix this derpy throttle cable though.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/22/23 at 12:01:27

I would be very careful soldering cable ends for the Mikuni VM. Stick to the throttle grip side. The cable end on the carb slide is not captivated on a VM. If the cable end pulls off it will run through your engine. If the cable end fails on the grip end of the cable, it won't harm anything.

You can take up a whole big bunch of that free play by modifying the twist grip to use the second hole in the throttle tube. There are two holes in the tube for a push/pull setup, but the LS only uses the pull hole. You can move the cable to the 2nd hole and take up about .5" of free play.

This old post has the specifics. See replies 16 through 19. Do it at your own risk. Worked good for me. Must make sure there is absolutely no binding.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1625732492

See the two holes.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/22/23 at 12:28:00

Thanks Mike. I was actually talking to my buddy on our ride this morning and he made the same comment about working on the throttle end of the cable rather than the carb end for the very same reason. Makes total sense!

And I do remember your post about hacksawing the plastic throttle tube between the holes and using the other hole. I'm a bit concerned it would bind in the front hole. Plus I already have a new throttle tube and grips I want to use. The new tube only has 1 hole and its positioned about 1/4" further back from the stop using the guide track. So it would consume about 1/4" more of the slop.

My total slop right now is about 1.1". Between the cable adjusters at the throttle and the carb being totally maxed out, I can only take up about 0.8" of the slop.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/22/23 at 12:57:42

Mike, what do you mean it isn't captivated? Mine is. It's a bit funky, but it's captivated or trapped.

Run the cable thru the fat hole and slide it over in the groove and it seats in a nicely beveled hole/slot. Then from the other side (top of slide) there is a disc that sits on top of the e-clip. The disc has a protruding section that goes in between the feed hole for the cable and the seat hole for the cable. It keeps the cable from accidentally slipping over if the cable nipple were to come out of its seat. So, it has a seat for the nipple and the disc with the protruding section that goes in the groove.

I've removed the needle and spring for the photo.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/22/23 at 13:00:02

View from the inside of the slide where the disc with the protruding "flange" goes in the groove between the cable feed hole and where it seats in the slide. You have to have 3 hands with tiny fingers to put it all together correctly.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/22/23 at 14:16:56

Paul, if that ferrule pulls off the cable it will drop right into the throat of the carb. If the engine is running the ferrule is goin straight into the engine. It is one feature of the VM that I am not fond of.

If a cable end comes off on a PWK, the ferrule is captured inside the slide. It can’t drop into the Venturi. On a VM, it’s goin into the engine.

Thank God for this forum. I broke my foot so I am OOC. I would be goin nuts if I didn’t have the forum to keep me occupied.

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/22/23 at 14:42:25

Ah! Now I see what you mean! Nothing to catch the ferrule if it falls off. Yup, it would get sucked right in there with the wood!!

Good ole Woody!!

Title: Re: Mikuni VM36 rebuild kits?
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/23/23 at 12:18:40

Here is the float needle valve I just purchased that matches what is installed in our carbs. It has the 3.3mm flow hole. I didn't like the smaller flow hole in the one that came in the cheap carb kit I bought. I didn't measure it when I installed it, but it appeared less than 2mm (like 1.5mm maybe). I'll actually measure it when I install the new 3.3mm float needle valve.

This was the main part I needed in the kit (the old one was worn, didn't seat/close fully, and caused flooding). I didn't want to risk starving the bike with that little valve that came in the cheap kit (at least I got some new gaskets and o-rings out of the kit).

https://www.activepowersports.com/mikuni-needle-valve-3-3-vm34-39-3-3/?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cse&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAjfyqBhAsEiwA-UdzJFBHjdydg6OQKWkyudkMqdGSSWIfmwpATuzgUVwIkFARBd5nsvJaIRoCJOwQAvD_BwE