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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Can we work it out? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1697099486 Message started by zevenenergie on 10/12/23 at 01:31:26 |
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Title: Can we work it out? Post by zevenenergie on 10/12/23 at 01:31:26 Here is a link to a song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyclqo_AV2M |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/12/23 at 04:13:19 Israel has already sad how they’re going to work it out. They’re going to invade Garza, go house to house and kill everybody who even looks like a terrorist until they get to the other side. Then they’re going to take complete control of Garza. And they’ll let any of the citizens leave and escaped to other Muslim countries. Oh, wait, other Muslim countries won’t take them because why would they take their pawns off the board? |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by zevenenergie on 10/12/23 at 11:13:07 Israel already has war crimes to its name that the UN has already recognized. I'm curious to see how that turns out. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Serowbot on 10/12/23 at 15:38:12 What about Hummus? |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by zevenenergie on 10/13/23 at 02:02:35 What about it? Is this how you moderate topics that are too difficult for you? |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/13/23 at 05:37:58 4C5340535853585344515F53360 wrote:
The UN charging Israel with war crimes is like the leftist prosecuting attorneys charging Trump with “90 crimes”. Both are bull$hit. Israel should walk across every inch of Gaza and kill every terrorist, destroy all weapons and take the territory as their own. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/13/23 at 05:42:03 213E2D3E353E353E293C323E5B0 wrote:
Hey, I don’t want any moderating. My joke about a fair and balanced moderator is just that, a joke. Sew is not an impartial observer, he’s on the far left and I disagree with almost everything he says, but I trust him (somewhat anyway) to step in when needed. This is absolutely not one of those times. Don’t ask for moderators. You don’t want that. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/13/23 at 06:38:04 Israel should walk across every inch of Gaza and kill every terrorist, destroy all weapons and take the territory as their own. This could force a Two Party State negotiation with the West Bank, something Israel has been avoiding for a while by using Hamas extremism as a tool. They should weaken Hamas but let them have a staging area if they want to avoid further negotiations and keep up with the gaslighting. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/13/23 at 06:39:08 What about it? Is this how you moderate topics that are too difficult for you? What specifically should be moderated in this thread? I see no rule violations. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by zevenenergie on 10/13/23 at 06:54:54 3F293E233B2E23384C0 wrote:
By deviating from the topic you can also limit/moderate a discussion. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/13/23 at 07:04:01 By deviating from the topic you can also limit/moderate a discussion. This has to my knowledge rarely been done by a Moderator, typically only when insulting/denigrating human targets. There are many, many off-topic discussions here. There is nothing different along the lines of historical Moderating in this thread than any other thread. Of course you can request more moderation on this topic, but I think it would be more equitable to request Moderators force on-topic discussion in all threads, if that is what you want done. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Serowbot on 10/13/23 at 07:08:58 6D7261727972797265707E72170 wrote:
By deviating from the topic you can also limit/moderate a discussion. [/quote] So you too can be a moderator. Webby, thanks for the support I was making a joke. Trump mispronounced Hamas as Hummus at a rally the other day. His method of obfuscation is laughable [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LCmFiWthzE[/media] |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/13/23 at 09:25:45 48686A627F680D0 wrote:
You’re gonna have to explain that better. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by thumperclone on 10/13/23 at 11:39:44 495645565D565D5641545A56330 wrote:
By deviating from the topic you can also limit/moderate a discussion. you are more than welcome to leave this site [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Serowbot on 10/13/23 at 12:13:43 Allow me redirect to the original topic Favourite Beatles tunes :-? |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/13/23 at 12:15:59 You’re gonna have to explain that better. Israeli actions at the negotiating table, (meaning Israeli humans directly involved in peace talks in exclusivity, excluding all other, known human Israeli citizens that are not politicians involved directly in peace talks) indicate they are not actually interested in a Two-State resolution. The West Bank PLO/PA consistently return to the negotiating table, and also does not appear to "want" a Two-State solution but due to the severe power imbalance appears to be willing to take what it can get, at least for a first step. Hamas, which is not PLO/PA (or similar in regard to the West Bank negotiations) consistently attacks Israel. Attacks negatively impact negotiations to the point of stopping them. If Israel does not want negotiations to succeed all they have to do is let Hamas exist. Eliminating Hamas means exclusive PLO/PA//West bank peace talks. This assessment interprets eliminating Hamas specific to the geographical location of Gaza. Hamas would still exist in the West Bank, or other locations, but be harder to deal with. Israel still has to appear interested in a Two State solution to get aid, support, money in the capacity they do now. My assessment is they use the PLO/PA/West Bank to "negotiate" and Hamas to stop the negotiation potential of success. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/13/23 at 12:47:04 I’m going to need to chew on that a while. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by zevenenergie on 10/13/23 at 12:48:47 4B5D4A574F5A574C380 wrote:
By deviating from the topic you can also limit/moderate a discussion. [/quote] So you too can be a moderator. Webby, thanks for the support I was making a joke. Trump mispronounced Hamas as Hummus at a rally the other day. His method of obfuscation is laughable [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LCmFiWthzE[/media] [/quote] Ok, sorry my bad. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/13/23 at 15:21:33 This is Sew’s method of avoiding conversations that eventually lead him to the realization that his leftist positions are indefensible and ridiculous. Usually it’s a cute little emoji. One out of ten times it’s genuinely funny! |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/13/23 at 15:30:11 487A7D6C6B7A6D527E6D741F0 wrote:
We didn’t negotiate with Japan, we wiped them out. We turned their country into something else completely. In fact, you could argue that there really never is peace until one side clearly and completely destroys the other. As long as Iran and others exist in their present form, they’ll always return. Like Voldemort, they’ll come back as long as there is breath in them. So the moral of the story is, there is no such thing as a two state solution as one as long as one of the states consists Islamic fundamentalists. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by MnSpring on 10/13/23 at 17:31:45 685A5D4C4B5A4D725E4D543F0 wrote:
“… there is no such thing as a two state solution as one as long as one of the states consists Islamic fundamentalists. …” ’Two State’, cannot be done. Because the UL WOKE FDS Socialists; Believe the Terrorist will stop Terrorism, just because someone is nice to them. They believe if you let a KILLER out of jail early, that person will never KILL again, (cause he/she said so) They believe that BANNING a thing, which STOPS crime, will stop crime ???????? They believe that printing letters on a sign, is a barrier to a person committing a crime in that area. They believe that if you GIVE everybody FREE, Healthcare, Taxes on people that work for a living will NOT go up ! They believe that if you open borders to MILLIONS, who do not pay Taxes, and Never WILL, is good for this Nation. They believe if you FORCE a change from Gas to EV, BEFORE, there is any infrastructure or support for EV, it is the correct thing to do. They believe giving several BILLIONS of dollars to a Nation, which is not even a NATO Nation, is NOT a payment for a Bribe ! And on and on and on. So instead of standing up, and crushing the TERRORISTS, the US will cow down, and placate, tug their locks and say, ‘Yess Sirrr’. Then wait for more demands, so they can say, ‘Yess Sirrr’. Again. That then will keep happening until all the, ‘Non Muslims’ are DEAD, or Converted. (As long as the progressive, DFI, FDS, UL Socialists have a majority voice) |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Serowbot on 10/14/23 at 06:56:18 I'm not sure the Israel situation breaks down to Right and Left so cleanly. I, for example am a big Israel supporter, as have all the recent Democrat Presidents including Biden Thumper and Mavi have not commented. Zev seems a bit supportive of the Palestinian cause. He usually leans Right. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/14/23 at 11:54:09 So the moral of the story is, there is no such thing as a two state solution as one as long as one of the states consists Islamic fundamentalists. Or Jewish ones. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by zevenenergie on 10/14/23 at 14:22:02 Whatever political solution you come up with, will not get implemented. The solution does not come from religion because that is often the cause of conflict. So politics is out and religion is out. So what counterforce is there in the world that stops conflict? The Japanese were not massacred. The Japanese were a nation of real warriors, and real warriors also know what surrender is. As humanity, we will have to step it up. And we cannot wait for the governments because they are plunging us into war. If two domestic parties are already trying to kill each other, how can they bring peace? By more war? |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Serowbot on 10/14/23 at 15:54:39 Let me know when Hamas finds peace and enlightenment |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by MnSpring on 10/14/23 at 17:38:46 7A5A58504D5A3F0 wrote:
Jews have never said said: ‘You must be a Jew to live’ Yet Islamic fundamentalists have said: ‘You must be Muslim to live’ |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/14/23 at 19:23:51 Jews have never said said: ‘You must be a Jew to live’ Yet Islamic fundamentalists have said: ‘You must be Muslim to live’ Some have but for the most part you are correct. In regard to a Two-State solution specific to the reply I made to Webstermark's post and no other known post, exclusively that one post, there can not be a Two State solution as long as Jews are present in the equation, they believe the settlement expansions should stay, or that Jerusalem is not to be shared with Palestine. I consider those to be Fundamentalists, which are different from Extremists. My assessment is Israel (specific to the parameters I previously stated) does not want a Two-State solution and as such takes advantage of Hamas extremism to stifle negotiation success. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/23 at 06:14:08 796675666D666D6671646A66030 wrote:
The counterforce is a bigger stick and the willingness and ability to use it. And politics is the only solution so long as you understand the correct definition of politics which is “the process a group of people undertakes to decide on a particular course of action.” Serious conflicts between nations absolutely need to be resolved with a clear winner, not necessarily through violence, but often. This is not true in domestic cases as, theoretically anyway, there’s a bond between the two that goes far beyond winning and losing. That doesn’t always exist with nations. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/23 at 06:16:23 In regard to a Two-State solution specific to the reply I made to Webstermark's post and no other known post, exclusively that one post, there can not be a Two State solution as long as Jews are present in the equation, they believe the settlement expansions should stay, or that Jerusalem is not to be shared with Palestine. I consider those to be Fundamentalists, which are different from Extremists. You could substitute Muslims for Jews and a couple other word and would that statement be equally accurate? |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/15/23 at 10:52:00 You could substitute Muslims for Jews and a couple other word and would that statement be equally accurate? I don't think so. I am not aware of any Muslims utilizing Jews in the same way to hinder negotiations with Palestine/PLO/PA. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by pg on 10/16/23 at 05:38:03 I am just popping in for a moment as I am trying to sort something out the old ‘05. I find one thing rather interesting, the left has a moral dilemma. Which side is the more protected class? Regardless, I am surprised by than less objective opinions of this conflict. I have not seen any posts stating that Israel did not pilfer and occupy the Palestinian land. If you look at the map of Palestine & Israel since it’s inception and you don’t agree their land was taken, you are not honest. This was also planned decades in advance, see the Balfour Declaration. The declaration was contained in a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to Lord Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, If an invading force came to take your home, how would you react? This by no means gives Hamas or their supporters the right to massacre scores of innocent people in a feudal attempt that is doomed to fail. One has to expect a reaction to large group of people who fanatically believe in a sub-human belief system. Israel is going to reciprocate, and again scores of innocent people are going to be displaced and killed. This will never end…………….. In short, there are a lot of bad guys and not a lot of good guys. Also, there is proof Jewish space lasers exist, see the Iron Beam………………... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/23 at 05:50:36 Israel still has to appear interested in a Two State solution to get aid, support, money in the capacity they do now. My assessment is they use the PLO/PA/West Bank to "negotiate" and Hamas to stop the negotiation potential of success. I think that’s 3-D chess in an imaginary game, not the real world. Using the existence of Hamas and by default, your interpretation requires Hamas to maintain a certain level of existence, is what resulted in over a 1000 Israeli deaths. While this attack was a surprise, the fear of an attack like this was real. I do not believe a government who regularly faced small attacks from Hamas would allow those to continue in order to argue or present a face that they are in favor of a two state solution. And, I agree that most Israelis lie when they say they would accept two states. I believe they understand that many versions of crescent moon groups cannot coexist with anyone. When you see those bumper stickers with all the religious symbols cleverly designed to say coexist, remember the dominant reason why they can’t is solely because of only one symbol. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Mavigogun on 10/16/23 at 08:02:23 2F3023303B303B3027323C30550 wrote:
The people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki don't disagree... because they can't. Like the residents of Gaza, they had no more influence over the Empire than the average Palestinian over Hamas, or American over the deployment of the US military. Truth and reductive recourse typically don't share the center of a Venn diagram- and history has a nasty habit of becoming little more than a bludgeon when flattened for a soap box. 5C4A5D40584D405B2F0 wrote:
Leveraging of the us/them tribal mentality is the root of these problems- something we would should have learned long ago from this constructed tragedy. Problem is, the lever connects to basic aspects of our nature that many never attempt to recognize, let alone surpass. Fomenting hate is so... easy. 5C4A5D40584D405B2F0 wrote:
This forum isn't a healthy, constructive space for me; I come here when society swings toward tribal excess at the expense of humanity, and I need a personification of those failures to use as pinata, beating until all the ugly bits are disgorged. Naturally, that contact is ultimately unsatisfying, being as reductive and destructive as the source of my disgust. So, no- I will not expound at length here on origins of this conflict, prejudice, bigotry, or petty and profound partisanship, as doing so would be akin to practicing origami in the rain. Rather, on a personal level, Serow, I suggest your demonstrated humanity is too large to fit into the limitations of the "big Israel supporter" box you have adopted, and will require cognitive dissonance and parsing of values to remain confined to. Whether or not you'll find that position tenable will depend to what degree comfort of certainty and pride succeed in winning out over your other values. Some folks here have surpassed my expectations- in a good way. There is also disappointment. Predictable disgust. Life is just... too short to spend it in this way- so I'll pluck the needle from my arm and leave the table again, having had my fill. Later, all. Before all else, be kind. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/16/23 at 08:25:31 I think that’s 3-D chess in an imaginary game, not the real world. Using the existence of Hamas and by default, your interpretation requires Hamas to maintain a certain level of existence, is what resulted in over a 1000 Israeli deaths. While this attack was a surprise, the fear of an attack like this was real. I do not believe a government who regularly faced small attacks from Hamas would allow those to continue in order to argue or present a face that they are in favor of a two state solution. You could be right. When I was there I never heard anything that said directly to allow Hamas to keep making tunnels because they wanted them to be able to harm Israelis. I did however directly receive orders to not catalogue the seismic readings as they would not be stopping the digging. These came from a very high up in command source which is what seemed odd. This is only one incident, nowhere near enough to see patterns. I don't think Israel (specific to the humans in the pre-stated parameters) is wanting Hamas to be a very damaging force, and greatly underestimated what Hamas was capable of out of Gaza (18 is the average age). I do however think Hamas is a great interrupting tool to negotiations, and a complete eradication of humans in Gaza will greatly impact the use of that tool. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by Eegore on 10/16/23 at 08:29:14 Also, there is proof Jewish space lasers exist, see the Iron Beam………………... That's a ground laser. If you are trying to say "lasers" are a "space" item then I have tons of "space lasers" laying all over the place. My neighbor uses a "space laser" to play with her cat, and she is Jewish. She has a Jewish space laser too. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by pg on 10/16/23 at 09:10:08 MTG: Love Jewish lasers Space or land Zap ‘em! I was being facetious, it was a dig to those on the left............ Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by WebsterMark on 10/16/23 at 09:52:06 6275737F7060120 wrote:
Hello PG, long time. Virtually everyone’s land was taken at one point or another. Israel’s policy of occupying the land they were being attacked from that’s fine with me. If northern Mexico, or southern Canada kept launching attacks into the US, sure, take them over and occupy it. As far as going back to 1917 I think it’s important to note that history didn’t start in 1917. Not that that’s necessarily an excuse. One way or another but it’s important to remember it’s complicated. Well to be fair it’s complicated, on one hand. On the other hand it’s pretty simple. If Muslim extremists would just stop trying to kill Jews, the problem would be solved. |
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Title: Re: Can we work it out? Post by pg on 10/18/23 at 18:52:50 I've watched some of the footage of the conflict. They often chant and holler about a snack bar. I believe it is in Hawaii as well............. ;D Best regards, |
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