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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Simple transgender explanation /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1690800043 Message started by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 03:40:43 |
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Title: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 03:40:43 Considering the transgender topic hasn't degraded into a bunch of claims about implying/inferring of things that were never said here like other topics, it might be worthwhile to look at a simple video explanation. I've known Sabine for years and while most of her stuff was originally physics based, she has done a great job showing how a physicist approach, using data, can apply to pretty much anything. This video is titled "Is being trans a social fad among teenagers?" I recommend watching the entire thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR_RAp73ra0 |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 03:47:32 Other videos on different topics: Does the Past Still Exist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwzN5YwMzv0 A good one showing why we don't have to just rage against words that we don't want to hear about a topic we think we are right about: Flat Earth "Science" -- Wrong, but not Stupid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8DQSM-b2cc One on alternative energy: We Could Beam Concentrated Solar Energy Down From A Satellite. But Should We? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZPrIE5ZMZA |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by WebsterMark on 07/31/23 at 05:13:14 0525272F3225400 wrote:
I have this woman’s YouTube channel saved and I’ve seen quite a few. I know her to strongly lean left when it comes to political views but she at least admits her bias. My takeaway from this video, as the grandfather of a young girl who is very popular with her peers and seemingly could go to birthday parties she’s invited to eve weekend is: The fact that diagnosed gender disphoria has skyrocketed in girls seems to proved social contagion. Girls are far more social than boys. As a father of both a boy and girl, I’ve witness first hand the difference between the sexes as they grow up. Boys and girls are different not because they act like others in their chosen group, they choose those groups because the members of that group act similarity. That’s important to understand. And the fact girls are claiming disphoria proves a large percentage of behavior is driven by sex seems to be ignored. If girls were really boys, wouldn’t they act like a boy and be far less open in expressing themselves to their peers? The other takeaway is the fact the number of clinics have likewise skyrocketed is another demonstration of “if you build it, they will come.” This has been turned into a political club and young girls are the casualties. Now, here’s a video for you to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSGgR3W_jjg |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 07/31/23 at 08:26:56 What about the other 99%???? What Data Shows About Transgender Detransition and Regret https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448 Associated Press reported in March that only about 1 percent of individuals who had transgender surgeries expressed regret. That was based on a review of 27 studies, which involved some 8,000 people who were mostly in the U.S., Europe and Canada. Media's 'detransition' narrative is fueling misconceptions, trans advocates say https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by WebsterMark on 07/31/23 at 09:55:24 Tell me you didn’t watch the whole video without telling me….. If you did, if you learned anything, is that statistics and even research papers that are supposedly scientific and nature are less than reliable. An article from Newsweek, which clearly has established a left-leaning, political agenda is meaningless. And I bet you did not watch the video link I posted either. You are really turning into quite the drive-by shooter. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 10:25:37 "I have this woman’s YouTube channel saved and I’ve seen quite a few. I know her to strongly lean left when it comes to political views but she at least admits her bias." I agree, while she may have an opinion she will at least admit when there isn't enough evidence to conclusively prove an opinion. I haven't seen her misrepresent any information she uses as reference. If girls were really boys, wouldn’t they act like a boy and be far less open in expressing themselves to their peers? I don't think so, but the reasons why won't change the math so my opinion on that isn't of much value. "This has been turned into a political club and young girls are the casualties." I agree. I think the harm comes from both sides of the issue here. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 07/31/23 at 11:26:41 1C3C3E362B3C590 wrote:
So maybe politics should stay out of it and leave the issue to families and doctors? I think that's been the Left view all along. Same with abortion. This is not a Right vs Left issue... it's a concocted Right issue. The Left just says STFU And due to the Right Wing's animosity toward trans and gay people in general, I don't see their concern here as genuine. It's just a way to pump up ire in the voter base. The Right runs on hate. And you'll deny it... but look at you. Suddenly you're concerned for the welfare of people you don't want to allow to use the bathroom. ::) |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/31/23 at 14:17:15 You want to understand mental illness? All you can do is know that it is mental illness and then Do Not support their delusions. Nobody FEELS like something they Aren't. Hell, I'm a Man and I can't Possibly FEEL like another Man. This Is the DUMBEST buncha Crap I've ever seen or heard of a society enduring. Some places have seen their Leaders Frikken BAN this ridiculous crap. Now, if YOU want to actually Consider what is happening and Try to wrap your head around WHY,, let's Follow the SCIENCE Testosterone levels have been dropping for a long time. There are Things conveniently found in foods,, that I'm betting don't need to be in it. Pesticides that affect hormones. The Pussification of America is and has been obvious for a long time. They made Being a Boy just Wrong. But it's okay if you can't even see the history of your very own life. Who doesn't see everything I just laid out? |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 14:53:05 They made Being a Boy just Wrong. But it's okay if you can't even see the history of your very own life. Who doesn't see everything I just laid out? Did you watch the video I posted? The overwhelming amount of humans transitioning are female to male. The majority are trying to be boys. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 15:00:10 So maybe politics should stay out of it and leave the issue to families and doctors? I think that's been the Left view all along. I don't think this is the ideal route as the medical profession can often times provide detrimental services if it is allowed to go unchecked. In the video I posted it is indicated that some governments are reducing the amount of medical treatments because of the permanence of body part removal, and that action has hardly any evidence to support it is beneficial for those age groups. I think if we let a private network like medical care in the US decide with parents, the only outcome will be more surgeries. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 07/31/23 at 15:20:06 5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:
Nice theory but... there have been gay and trans people for millennia. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 07/31/23 at 17:03:28 5147504D55404D56220 wrote:
A-Yep, MOST, vast,. VAST majority, have been VERY intelligent, productive, talented, skilled, successively men, who were ‘gay’ (new meaning). Who did NOT, CRY, ‘Look at me, give me special consideration”. (Walt Dysney, Raymond Burr, were just two) And NOT ONE Said: Pick Me, Pick Me, I am Gay, I am Special, I want special Consideration. (Like Today !) Instead of a Transportation, Nuclear waste , Admiral, who ONLY got to where they were, With the, (and to the like), 'affirmative action' A-Yep, ! |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/31/23 at 17:44:26 Testosterone is Not dropping? We Don't have chemicals in the food supply that screw up hormones? |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by WebsterMark on 07/31/23 at 18:10:37 I agree. I think the harm comes from both sides of the issue here. So maybe politics should stay out of it and leave the issue to families and doctors? I think that's been the Left view all along. Really? So if a doctor refuses to permanently abortion, yo7 won’t sue him? If a baker refuses bake a cake because it goes against their beliefs, you’ll tell the gay couple to go elsewhere? And….if a company refuses to hire fat people because the staff doctor says they down produce as well, you’re fine with that? No, you’re not fine with it. In fact, you need politics to drive these issues to the court where you can stick your nose in everyone’s business. I’m all in favor of less government intrusion, but there’s an entire industry being created to turn a profit at the based on nonsense and leftist are the ones sacrificing children. As usual, progressives suck. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 07/31/23 at 18:59:57 Testosterone is Not dropping? We Don't have chemicals in the food supply that screw up hormones? I have not seen conclusive evidence that testosterone is dropping among the age groups indicated in the video, but I can not say for sure. Yes there are chemicals in food and other locations that damage hormones. The question I have is if "They made Being a Boy just Wrong." wouldn't the outcome be more boys transitioning to girls? Using the content of the video, that you may or may not have bothered to watch, the question is if transgender transition is a fad among youth. The overwhelmingly larger group are girls becoming boys. This would contradict the effectiveness of "They" making it Wrong to be a Boy. It's not working, tons of kids want to be boys. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by zevenenergie on 08/01/23 at 03:10:41 It is not only residues of the pill and other medicines in the drinking water, it is also a matter of spiritual development that we go through as humanity. We are not men or women we are human beings. It was evolutionary that determined that there was a strong contrast between the sexes. but now that we have a completely different living climate, gender doesn't matter that much anymore. It happens that there are men with more female hormones than male ones and there are females with more male hormones than female ones. And then there is the expectation pattern of the parents. If a girl is born while the parents preferred a boy, the child also develops more male hormones. This shows that you can have an opinion about genders, but that it is more of an obstacle than a good guideline about how things should be. There is nothing wrong at all, except that we cannot accept people as they are. But also that we cannot accept our body as it is. If we all made sure that we are happy with our bodies, children could be born who don't have to worry about their bodies. Because remember, despite what the church has made of it, our body is a doorway to the divine. We should not just accept it, because to accept it already means that there is something wrong with it. We can incarnate in the body. That means fully embodying. It's an evolutionary step. Earlier when we incarnated on the high plains of Tibet it was not so difficult to become a boedha. The challenge is clearly much more difficult now. But that is why we are here in this time and space. The only thing is we have forgotten who we are and we see the body not any more as a tempel, but more as a someting that we are, that is nog good enuf. If you fully decent in the body you will find out you are divine and conected whit the whole universe. And that's not an empty promise, that's a law. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/01/23 at 08:52:13 5676747C6176130 wrote:
I was learning to drive a, ‘3 on the tree’, Pickup truck at 12. While my Grandfather threw hay bales on the attached wagon . I was told I know nothing about hitching a team of horses to a wagon. Yet I had a desire to be a MAN. Today, no knowledge of how to drive a manual transmission, Parallel park, Look before changing lanes, understanding things like, ‘utilities’, knowing no Nigerian Prince will give you a million dollars, wearing earrings, hair buns, eye shadow, etc. etc. etc. … … … None of those things are proof of not having less testosterone. The fact that that/a person HAS NO DESIRE to be a MAN, Is "…conclusive evidence…”, of less testosterone ! |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by zevenenergie on 08/01/23 at 09:06:35 I didn't know you were actually a woman. Have you already had surgery? |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/01/23 at 09:26:38 415E4D5E555E555E495C525E3B0 wrote:
Did not know a MALE, in the Netherlands, was a MAN, at 12 ! Your statement is the same as, AOC's Mouth is good for ONE THING, and that is not talking ! (Oh BTY Nice 'Drive By' !) |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by LANCER on 08/01/23 at 09:42:14 I grew up in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s and never saw a male, young or old, with man-boobs except for someone who was very obese. It seems to me that when I began to notice a few of them it was in the ‘90’s. So what changed then ? It was the transition from basic cooking using real food purchased at groceries and eaten at home to mass produced meals created-packaged in factories. We went from meals at home with the family to snack foods and instant microwave meals prepared for us by who know who with who know what. Primary ingredients of factory prepared foods contains a lot of salt, sugar and lots of simple carbohydrates. It’s a receipt for disaster. What does this diet do to a kid who eats things like super sweet cereals chocked full of sugar, salt and carbs, beginning at the toddler stage and continuing through adulthood ? It’s not good. Do we really know everything that goes into the products ? I seriously question it. Look what’s happened with vaccines. Not good. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/01/23 at 09:55:35 The fact that that/a person HAS NO DESIRE to be a MAN, Is "…conclusive evidence…”, of less testosterone ! That's not even close to being true. Proof of less testosterone would be measured lowered testosterone levels. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by zevenenergie on 08/01/23 at 10:50:15 I think if a man wants to be a woman the feeling of being a woman makes him horny. So in my eyes he is gay or bi. Whichever way you look at it. And how much or how little, male or female hormones you have. You are in a man's body or in a woman's body. You can be a hetero man or a gay man. And if you want a lot of atention you are a transgender, but still in a man,s body so you a man. (not really of course but ok) You can try to manipulate the world, but you don't change that fact. But the real question is, of course, can you meet as a human being. And I think that's where it goes wrong. Because if you can't get out of your game as a transgender. Or if you, as an "ordinary person", cannot step out of your judgment or are afraid of your feelings. Then it is impossible to meet. And meeting each other, is the solution to many problems in the world. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 08/01/23 at 15:25:12 I love Sabine. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by WebsterMark on 08/02/23 at 05:03:41 6670677A62777A61150 wrote:
I’m sure you do, as I said she leans left which gives you plenty of cherries to pick from her trees and claim a scientific source. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/02/23 at 05:23:59 I’m sure you do, as I said she leans left which gives you plenty of cherries to pick from her trees and claim a scientific source. Typically her sources are accurate so I would say the reference material is scientific evidence. Her videos aren't scientific source by themselves. I just like her demonstration of how to use information versus opinion, and that she will actually be honest about separating the two. Of course in her line of work it's not really possible to declare opinions as fact. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/02/23 at 10:28:44 6545474F5245200 wrote:
Yet still happens ! |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by WebsterMark on 08/03/23 at 05:11:33 71526F4C4E55525B3C0 wrote:
Yet still happens ! [/quote] Absolutely true MnSpring which is why discernment comes into play. And that’s hard because it’s hard to see your own bias despite how hard you try. And there are times when that’s a good thing. If you have an underlying belief system, you can use that as a filter to flush new ideas through. Like a filter that catches invisible particles, your belief system can catch tidbits that would otherwise seem logical and valid points of view, but in reality are complicated and difficult to recognize dangerous Trojan Horses. If they get through, your belief system can be comprised and like a corrupted GPS map program, you get directions that can send you down the wrong path. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/03/23 at 05:31:15 I'm thinking more along the lines of applied physics. I can have an opinion that an apple will not fall from a tree, but instead float upwards, that's not exactly plausible to declare that as fact when working with physics. How would you replicate that event? Theoretical physics however are a different thing, but still require a tremendous amount of actual evidence to discuss. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by WebsterMark on 08/03/23 at 07:32:37 1D3D3F372A3D580 wrote:
But transgender issues involve very little applied science in which case this applies: If you have an underlying belief system, you can use that as a filter to flush new ideas through. Like a filter that catches invisible particles, your belief system can catch tidbits that would otherwise seem logical and valid points of view, but in reality are complicated and difficult to recognize dangerous Trojan Horses. If they get through, your belief system can be comprised and like a corrupted GPS map program, you get directions that can send you down the wrong path. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/03/23 at 08:35:05 But transgender issues involve very little applied science in which case this applies: Agreed. This is why I prefer data over opinion and anecdotes. Like the testosterone thing. I would rather used measured testosterone levels over perceived desire to use a manual transmission as evidence of how much testosterone is in a human. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 08/03/23 at 10:45:30 Exc=actly, and data, as flawed as it may be, says 98 to 99% of trans that undergo medical treatment find they have a more satisfying standard of life. Even if the stats are off by 100 or 200%... the scale still leans far positive. The majority of children don't start puberty blockers or hormones until their late teens and very few get surgery until over 18. This is a political issue. To trans people it's a personal issue. The Right once again wants to regulate peoples bodily choices. They are more anti trans than pro children. The bathroom issue is proof. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/03/23 at 11:08:28 7757555D4057320 wrote:
What I recall being said was; "...None of those things are proof of having less testosterone..." (which included using a manual transmission) Or was it, 'IMPLYING ', that someone said; 'driving a Manual Transmission, does determine 'testosterone level.' |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/03/23 at 11:41:53 4553445941545942360 wrote:
Is that "...medical treatment...", a 'talking to', 'drugs', or 'surgery' ? What is the proof of that statement ? 4553445941545942360 wrote:
Please provide the proof of that statment. 4553445941545942360 wrote:
Yes, it's been happening for 100's of years. And when a 'cross dress/etc' person went into the different bathroom, (according to physical gender), they went their to go to the bathroom. Today, (Thanks to the FDS DFI WOKE Socialists) When many (described above) person/people goes into a bathroom, it is for a ENTIRELY DIFFERENT Reason ! |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/03/23 at 12:37:53 Or was it, 'IMPLYING ', that someone said; 'driving a Manual Transmission, does determine 'testosterone level.' You might infer that, I did not imply or say that. I said I would rather used measured testosterone levels over perceived desire to use a manual transmission as evidence of how much testosterone is in a human. This means perceived interpretations of a "desire" for anything as proof of testosterone levels is not something I would choose. I would choose physical measured levels of testosterone in humans. Evidence of "how much" testosterone means, to me, a "level of" testosterone. Erectile dysfunction clinics across the country would most likely indicate a "DESIRE TO BE A MAN" is not a proof of testosterone levels. Many men that want to be men have lower testosterone. Desire has no measurable effect on testosterone levels, up or down, which is why it has to be medically addressed by chemicals. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/03/23 at 14:48:43 6141434B5641240 wrote:
Correct, you did not, "... say that ...". You implied it. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 08/03/23 at 15:09:44 6A497457554E4940270 wrote:
Is that "...medical treatment...", a 'talking to', 'drugs', or 'surgery' ? What is the proof of that statement ? 4553445941545942360 wrote:
Please provide the proof of that statment. 4553445941545942360 wrote:
Yes, it's been happening for 100's of years. And when a 'cross dress/etc' person went into the different bathroom, (according to physical gender), they went their to go to the bathroom. Today, (Thanks to the FDS DFI WOKE Socialists) When many (described above) person/people goes into a bathroom, it is for a ENTIRELY DIFFERENT Reason ! [/quote] I've posted the studies before... You don't read. Look them up. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/03/23 at 15:20:25 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
I have looked them up. I do read. (Your Wrong) And what you have, posted, are well documented UL, FDS, Socialist TDS Disorder, 'opinions'. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/03/23 at 19:02:45 Correct, you did not, "... say that ...". You implied it. You inferred. I clearly said desire does not influence testosterone, and used manual transmissions as an example for perceived desire, my actual words reflect that. Just as you used manual transmissions in your example explaining a different aspect of the same topic. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/04/23 at 11:25:59 1A3A38302D3A5F0 wrote:
A-Yep ! I Inferred WHEN you IMPLIED, I said something I did not ! |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 08/04/23 at 11:47:44 You imply with your mouth,... you infer with your ears. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Eegore on 08/04/23 at 12:55:27 A-Yep ! I Inferred WHEN you IMPLIED, I said something I did not ! I think you just want to make an argument out of everything. Claiming "imply" this or that allows one to avoid using the actual words typed in. Bottom line is desire does not impact testosterone levels. Desire to be a man will not increase testosterone, desire to not be a man will not lower it. This is why erectile dysfunction clinics are a multi-million dollar industry, puberty blockers exist, certain steroids, etc. Testosterone has to be chemically altered, a human can't desire the levels to be lower or higher. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/05/23 at 11:41:53 Quote:
Puberty is 10-12 (+/-). Easily 6 to 8 YEARS of Puberty Blockers ! Before parts get cut off. Now, WHO, pays for the, 'Puberty Blockers' ? The Progressive Socialists who demand it ? The Hospital/clinics that get paid for them ? The Drug Companies who make them ? Is it everyone with insurance, paying a higher rate ? Is it the people, with out insurance, that gets them for free (paid out of someone else's Tax dollar) ? Sounds like no more Chrome Gas Tanks. Gotta save that money to give to someone else, for puberty Blockers. And the 95+% of killing babies for convenience/birth control. Yes Virginia. People DO have the RIGHT, to a Abortion, Puberty Blockers, ETC, ,,, They do NOT have the RIGHT, to have what they want, by using someone else's money. Hey, I WANT, a 3 wheel Recumbent, Under Seat Steering Bike. Who wants to GIVE ME ONE !!!!!!!!!! And Yes Virginia, (don't get your panties in a bunch). Their ARE people that need help. Yes we should all help them. Just NOT help the Gimmes, JUST BECAUSE they say, GIMME. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/23 at 14:31:45 I just Don't understand how people old enough to remember society before ten years ago can't see a continuation of decline in America, and WHO is driving social POLICIES. Ohh,wait!! We're talking about the same people who believe that Guns enter the No Gun places and cause death and destruction in the NoGun places,, WHILE NOT CAUSING DEATH AND DESTRUCTION IN THE STATES WITH THE SURPLUSES. The immoral, the stupid, ?? That IS what the left supports. But the evidence that what they believe is WRONG ?? They ignore it. Will NOT have the conversation. That right there is called The Forum Gauntlet.. Pick it up. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by Serowbot on 08/05/23 at 15:10:58 233C3A3D20271626162E3C307B490 wrote:
I can't... I agree. Things were better ten years ago,... before tRump. When Obama was in charge. |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/05/23 at 15:21:19 5D4B5C41594C415A2E0 wrote:
Nope Bamba, was a FEEDER of the Me Me Me, GIMME, GIMME, GIMME, mentality. And now we are seeing his DESTRUCTION ! |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by MnSpring on 08/05/23 at 15:24:43 My favorit still is; A truck had a photo of bama, and the letters; 'Does This AZZ Make My Truck Look Big ? |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/23 at 16:50:21 3026312C34212C37430 wrote:
I can't... I agree. Things were better ten years ago,... before tRump. When Obama was in charge.[/quote] Wow,, the establishment you defend is Why it sux now. Trump didn't wreck it. He was there for FOUR YEARS, look AROUND. It's not JUST the democrats, it's both sides that have sold America out. But it's the left driving SOCIAL POLICY,, especially where society has actually collapsed. Where homeless Schmitt in the streets, where boys have no future, where the only paths they see are not healthy. YOU LEFTIES RUN THAT... |
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Title: Re: Simple transgender explanation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/23 at 17:00:17 3F293E233B2E23384C0 wrote:
I can't... I agree. Things were better ten years ago,... before tRump. When Obama was in charge.[/quote just Don't understand how people old enough to remember society before ten years ago can't see a continuation of decline in America, and WHO is driving social POLICIES. Ohh,wait!! We're talking about the same people who believe that Guns enter the No Gun places and cause death and destruction in the NoGun places,, WHILE NOT CAUSING DEATH AND DESTRUCTION IN THE STATES WITH THE SURPLUSES. Cherry pick much??? Deal with it. You actually tried to argue that. Defend it. Explain why that is not just illogical as anything can be. Explain how all those guns Can Originate in a place where gun control is lax, Yet they don't suffer the thugs with guns epidemic.. Tell me why I should Follow the Science again, while the lefties ignore Everything that is Scientifically PROVEN about gun laws and crime. You twist yourselves into pretzels to promote what has been proven to be a failure WHILE Seeing what happens when The People are Allowed to exercise their God Given Right to self defense. I have The Argument and nobody can make it Wrong. Not anyone here, not anyone, anywhere.. Facts Prove I'm right. ] |
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