SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1689347600

Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/23 at 08:13:20

Title: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/23 at 08:13:20

Fust weeks removed from a Supreme Court ruling that declared its student loan forgiveness program unconstitutional, the Biden administration on Friday announced new relief for students that will cancel $39 billion in debt for more than 804,000 past students.
Pretty sure that is supposed to be

Just,

Waiting for the brilliant retort that A SC ruling that says An Action is Unconstitutional
Knowing that the Constitution is The Law of the Land
Isn't a law.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/14/23 at 08:39:00

They are two different things. If this one was unconstitutional someone should have said something back in April 2022 when it was announced, or 30 years ago when it was approved. It's not "new".

You are confusing this announcement with the re-allocating of funds for general loan forgiveness on student loans that were never intended to be forgiven.

This recent announcement is acknowledging pre-funded income-based forgiveness approved 20-25 years ago that were incorrectly counted. So things like people paid their loans for 25 years, but only 7 of those years counted because of an accounting error.

If you were told you would have your loan forgiven after paying for 20 years, but then find out some clerical error means you are only getting 12 years counted, would you be ok with that?

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by J Mac on 07/14/23 at 09:32:21

I'd certainly be disappointed, but I think people really need to pay their debts. The practice of loan forgiveness (often part of pandering), whether 30 years ago or today, relies on lots of working people who never went to college contributing to pay for college degrees for others. I think the tide is turning in regard to the stigma of not having a university degree. They are increasingly expensive and often useless vehicles for indoctrination rather than education. My company is starting to not require degrees for people with the desired skillsets. In a sense it rubs me the wrong way, because I worked hard on a technical degree. In another sense, I celebrate the fact that people can and will succeed outside the poisonous university system that breeds closed-minded progressive ideologues living exclusively in their putrid echo chambers.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/14/23 at 10:37:19

I'd certainly be disappointed, but I think people really need to pay their debts.

I agree with paying debts, however I do not agree that a deal about what would be owed is made, that gets broken because some intern checked the wrong box 15 years ago, or some organization miscalculated your income should be paid. Forgiving loans that were expected to be paid in full is a different story, those should be paid.

This would be like buying a house on a 30 year fixed, and in the contract the bank said if you paid every month on-time they would forgive the last 5 years of your loan. Then you find out on year 20 that they accidentally miscalculated your payment dates so now you must pay for all 30 years because you should pay your debts.

A deal works both ways. If I pay on time, the debtor shouldn't be able to just say Oops, I guess you owe more now.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Serowbot on 07/14/23 at 10:37:30

A part time job that I loved at college more than paid for my degree.
I don't think I could do that today.
I don't agree with total cancellation but little help don't hurt.
Beyond that,... just tighten yer belt a bit.
I also tucked away $20k while working in college and living at home.
Live within your means is key.
But I do feel for current students... costs are so high.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by MnSpring on 07/14/23 at 14:18:56

78585A524F583D0 wrote:

"... people paid their loans for 25 years, but only 7 of those years counted because of an accounting error. ..."

So, someone paid back the amount required over 25 years.
And NEVER checked the balance ?

NPR - July 14, 2023
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/14/1187545921/student-loan-forgiveness-save-repayment

(A UL FDS WOKE FAVORITE place)

"... The department says that under the old plan,
borrowers repaid $10,956 for every $10,000 they borrowed.
Under the new plan,
they would pay back just $6,121. ..."

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/14/23 at 16:45:18

So, someone paid back the amount required over 25 years.
And NEVER checked the balance ?

Its the years people were told they were getting credit, not the money paid. The balance is irrelevant, there's no way you could have known the payments weren't counting towards the years. The Government agreed to forgive the loan after 20 - 25 years of payments, but miscalculated, or simply never calculated any of those years of payments, or the income percentages. The balance isn't the issue here.

Its like a job saying they will pay for your schooling if you work 5 years. Once you work 4 years they tell you the recruiter forgot to check the "college" box so they won't be paying for your school. Oops.

How would you know they weren't counting those working years if they just kept telling you they were?

Your comparison would be showing them timecards. That's not the problem, nobody is questioning if you worked, they are saying they never considered you for the pay-off program and never told you.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/23 at 19:22:46

Where does the president get the legal authority to Do what he wants?
The Supreme Court SAID it was UNCONSTITUTIONAL for him to do it...

And yet,, he's doing it..

But Trump is a lawless POs..

But lefties are right

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/14/23 at 20:29:19

Where does the president get the legal authority to Do what he wants?
The Supreme Court SAID it was UNCONSTITUTIONAL for him to do it...

And yet,, he's doing it..

Its not the same thing. The Supreme Court never SAID the program in effect for the past 30 years is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

You are mixing new loan forgiveness paid for by the taxpayer with a 30 year old program where people thought they would have loans forgiven after paying 20-25 years. The government screwed up and didn't give some people credit for the loan agreements made decades ago.

If it was UNCONSTITUTIONAL, why didn't anyone say this 30 years ago? The current proposed modifications need scrutinized, but there is no Supreme Court ruling on them.

Let me guess, since I am acknowledging there is a difference between current loan forgiveness, and loan deals made 30 years ago, and that the Supreme Court only ruled on one of those...that makes me "Pro-loan forgiveness" right? Even though I've made it clear the current loan forgiveness proposals are a bad idea.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Serowbot on 07/15/23 at 07:46:29

I actually cut down classes for 2 years because I couldn't afford them.
A 4 year degree took 6 years but I never went in debt.

Still,... costs are so much higher now, I don't know what I would do.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by MnSpring on 07/15/23 at 09:20:20

4A6A68607D6A0F0 wrote:

"... The balance is irrelevant, there's no way you could have known the payments weren't counting towards the years. ..."

Wrong !

Yes if the loan maker said something, and it was in writing.
You better believe something could be done about it.

If the loan maker, 'said' something, and their is nothing to back up that, 'saying something'.
Then it's tough titty kitty.

4A6A68607D6A0F0 wrote:

"... no way you could have known the payments weren't counting ..."

The believe in THAT,
is EXACTLY what some loan givers, rely upon.

If a person has a scintilla of a brain cell, they will check.

AH, but it is working.
More and more, ARE. DFI's,
and they vote to make
even more brain dead people !

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/15/23 at 10:09:55

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/15/23 at 12:45:47

Wrong !

Yes if the loan maker said something, and it was in writing.
You better believe something could be done about it.

If the loan maker, 'said' something, and their is nothing to back up that, 'saying something'.
Then it's tough titty kitty.

Yeah that's why this is in the news and has been an issue for a while. Tons of people have documentation, which is why things are being done.

Unfortunately nobody out of these thousands and thousands of people and multiple legal teams ever thought to give receipts to the Government like you said, so it's not "simple" for them. Everyone involved is just too stupid to do it the "simple' way.

"The believe in THAT,
is EXACTLY what some loan givers, rely upon.

If a person has a scintilla of a brain cell, they will check."

Check what exactly? Their documentation says they are good to go. They don't have access, or the rights to access every computer they think handled their loans EVERY month for 20 years.

Its like you paying your house payment every month, you get receipts and monthly bank statements. To you, the information you have access to, says your payments are good.

In 15 years the bank says THEIR internal system calculated wrong, so the payoff forgiveness they promised at year 20 is not going to happen. Oops. You should have had a scintilla of a brain cell and done monthly checks of the IT systems at your bank, the IRS, and underwriters to make sure their internal computer systems aren't doing something wrong. Why weren't you asking for monthly digital search warrants from your local Judge?

How about this, you work 25 years at a Company then learn they won't have a pension, or a reduced pension for you due to bad accounting/business investments. This has happened to many people. Those idiot workers should have been getting warrants and auditing the Company books every month to make sure their pension funds were good to go, right?

Now the NEW loan forgiveness is a totally different story. Those humans should have been calculating their payment/interest rates and reading their contracts. Those people could have been doing exactly what you said. But for any of this to make sense you would have to Observe that these are two totally different loan issues made decades apart.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/15/23 at 12:58:27

I want a breakdown of the majors representing this debt.
I Want to know how many Gender Studies majors that have big debt and how many mechanical engineering majors there are..
Not JUST those, but the others, too. Does anyone Need to ask why.??

I'm not sure I understand you logic here.

If this was about the NEW loan forgiveness that the Supreme Court ruled against then it would make sense. But this is about loans from 30 years ago, that were never ruled as UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Two different things decades apart.

A Mechanical Engineer major takes a deal to have his loan paid off after making 25 years of payments. At Year 24 he is told a calculation went wrong years ago that he could not have known about, and his loan forgiveness is cancelled. Oops. Keep paying.

An Underwater Basket Weaving for Trans-Gendered-Eskimos major takes a deal to have his loan paid off after making 25 years of payments. At Year 24 he is told a calculation went wrong years ago that he could not have known about, and his loan forgiveness is cancelled. Oops. Keep paying.

Besides the major selection, both of these humans got a degree and paid their loans for 25 years. Are you thinking about the income adjustment rates or something?

Or are you wondering if fewer Mechanical Engineers took the deal and instead decided it would be better to pay more for college but in less time?

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by MnSpring on 07/15/23 at 14:36:14

426260687562070 wrote:

"... In 15 years the bank says THEIR internal system calculated wrong, so the payoff forgiveness they promised at year 20 is not going to happen. Oops. You should have had a scintilla of a brain cell and done monthly checks of the IT systems at your bank, the IRS, and underwriters to make sure their internal computer systems aren't doing something wrong. Why weren't you asking for monthly digital search warrants from your local Judge? ..."

You just love to Deflect and Spin.

A person made the deal.
That person read, agreed to, signed the contract.
That person has a record of that deal/contract.
That person, followed all of the criteria in that contract.
If the 'other' person/entity did not fulfill the contract the other person signed.
The remedy IS SIMPLE.

If a person signed a contract to borrow money.
Did Not read, (or have someone who could) understand it.
Signed that contract.
Has no record of that contract.
Has no record of payment/fulfillment of contract.
And the other person/entity decided to say, 'Tough Titty Kitty'.
Guess What, IT IS Tough Titty Kitty !

Is that person/entity dishonest.
Sure. And not a lot of things can be done.

UNLESS, a 'government',
wants to teach,
that you are
not responsible for your actions !

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by MnSpring on 07/15/23 at 15:38:18

5575777F6275100 wrote:

"... multiple legal teams ever thought to give receipts to the Government like you said, so it's not "simple" for them. Everyone involved is just too stupid to do it the "simple' way. ..."

Another Inference.

Problem (of something not being simple) very often is:
"...multiple legal teams..."

My personal Observed Reality;
Many Lawyers, MAKE/SAY, things are complicated,
(When They Are NOT !)
and ONLY they can fix it.
And OBTY, they need MORE money to do it.

(Oh keep forgetting, Observed Reality, is not really, real)

Perhaps Arthur Train's, 80 years ago, personal observed reality is valid ?

(He said: ' Put one Lawyer in a small town, they will make a good living. Put two Lawyer's in that small town, they both will get very rich !)

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/15/23 at 15:45:24

Problem (of something not being simple) very often is:
"...multiple legal teams..."

I agree, there could be an issue where lawyers intentionally work in a way to maximize their profits at the expense of their client.

Unfortunately for the thousands and thousands of humans involved in this, none of them thought to show receipts (balance) to the Government like you did and get their loan forgiven. They are just boned because not one, not one single person thought to do the "simple" thing and get their loan deal honored by providing receipts or a contract, of a loan nobody is questioning they paid.

To apply this technique to pensions, people who are denied or have their pension lowered after 25 years of work should do the "Simple" thing and take their paychecks to the Company proving they worked (something nobody questions) and get their full pension.

Simple.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/15/23 at 15:55:35

You just love to Deflect and Spin.

You refuse to Observe this is two different loan issues made decades apart. Receipts aren't the problem.

A person made the deal.
That person read, agreed to, signed the contract.
That person has a record of that deal/contract.
That person, followed all of the criteria in that contract.
If the 'other' person/entity did not fulfill the contract the other person signed.
The remedy IS SIMPLE.

I disagree. If it were SIMPLE then people wouldn't spend years battling broken contracts. Thousands of humans have this problem and not one figured out your "simple" technique" of showing payment receipts. Thus showing the balance. This isn't even the problem, nobody is questioning they paid, but somehow showing receipts (balance) will resolve this. Too bad not one other human on the planet thought of your SIMPLE method for solving their problem.

If a person signed a contract to borrow money.
Did Not read, (or have someone who could) understand it.
Signed that contract.
Has no record of that contract.
Has no record of payment/fulfillment of contract.
And the other person/entity decided to say, 'Tough Titty Kitty'.
Guess What, IT IS Tough Titty Kitty !

Agreed. That's not what happened with the older loans though.

Jog is freely mixing the Supreme Court decision on current loan forgiveness with broken (by the government) loan agreements made 30 years ago that do not apply to that Supreme Court ruling. The resolution logic of one does not directly apply to the other, although the current resolution proposal does need to be scrutinized.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by MnSpring on 07/15/23 at 16:19:25

5070727A6770150 wrote:

"... like you did and get their loan forgiven. ..."

LOLOLOLOL

Each post, I believe less and less of your, 'knowledge' of a subject.

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/15/23 at 19:08:02

LOLOLOLOL

Each post, I believe less and less of your, 'knowledge' of a subject.

So you didn't think there was simple resolution that included checking the balance? Who did?

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by MnSpring on 07/15/23 at 20:26:52

08282A223F284D0 wrote:

"... So you didn't think there was simple resolution that included checking the balance? Who did?"

LLOLOLOLOL

Putting words in my mouth.
Changing things I/others said.
Saying/making, two different points.
As well as inferring.

At least you are now using less,
double and triple negatives
in your word salads.

You have gone beyond topic discussion,
and moved into the troll area.

Have Fun !

Title: Re: But we TOTALLY follow all the other laws..
Post by Eegore on 07/15/23 at 20:49:16

Putting words in my mouth.
Changing things I/others said.
Saying/making, two different points.
As well as inferring.

What am I misunderstanding then?

It appears to me that you think people could have checked their balance and somehow known the years were not calculated. Once they found out there is a problem, the resolution is SIMPLE. If it were SIMPLE, why won't anyone resolve their problem?

Checking the balance won't help, that's not the problem. You say "WRONG!" to that assessment:

Eegore: The balance is irrelevant, there's no way you could have known the payments weren't counting towards the years. ..."

MnSpring: Wrong !

How would people know then?

Either way, this issue was not ruled on by the Supreme Court.