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Message started by och on 07/13/23 at 06:46:01

Title: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/13/23 at 06:46:01

Hey guys, my rear brake shoes were replaced about two years ago, probably with EBC, as these are what my mechanic always uses. They are incredibly weak, feel like they are made of cheese, and even at slow speeds I really have to stomp the pedal to bring the bike to a stop if using rear brake only.

I remember when the bike was new, I was easily able to lock up the rear wheel.

Is there a big difference in just the shoes alone, or are there other components? The bike only has 6700 miles on it so far, and I need my braking strength back.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by badwolf on 07/13/23 at 08:22:07

Before you think new shoes are the answer, take off your cable, check it over and lube it and the pivot. They need it from time to time.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/23 at 16:29:40

How hard do you need to hit the brake to make the rear tire slide?

I didn't Make my rear brake stronger. I cut grooves in the shoes to minimize the surface area contact. I could sneeze and the rear tire start started sliding.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/14/23 at 01:23:25

I can't lock up the brakes at all, they have very weak stopping force. When using just the rear brake during slow speed maneuvers, I have to stomp the pedal very hard to come to a complete stop from like 5mph. The pads have maybe 3k miles.

My other two bikes, Star 950 and KTM 690 have much stronger rear brakes.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/23 at 05:55:23

Okay, that is not a complaint I've ever seen anyone have. My first thought would be pollution. Someone, somehow got oil in there. Or maybe had it maladjusted,, and over heated and glazed the shoes. If you haven't gone in and looked,, it's time.
I haven't read all of this, I will,

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/23 at 06:04:14

59555E360 wrote:

Okay, new shoes, replaced for no reason?

Forget everything else I said.

Except it's time to go look at everything. Make sure your brake Mechanism is not being impeded by anything, the pressure on the pedal is moving the brake arm on the hub.
Mark the hub where the pedal swings it to.

Remove the rod from the lever. Put something on it and swing it as far as you can.

Hell, have you adjusted the wing nut on the brake actuating rod ?

With foot on peg,how far do you have to move your toe before the pedal stops?

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by Ruttly on 07/14/23 at 11:57:12

I removed the brake cam. Polished pivot and cam areas , cam area took some file works and finished with emery cloth over a hardwood block then buffer wheel and also the area on the shoe that contacts the cam. Cleaned out backing plate bore and lubricate , I prefer a dry lube , it won’t attract brake dust like grease or oil will. Same for brake pedal pivot. I didn’t like the EBC shoes , I put the stock shoes back in. If everything lubed and operates smoothly it’s not a bad brake at all. Stocker have a cable that also needs lubed too.
Now I’m wondering what my 60 to 0 distance is , sounds like a reason to ride !

Note : EBC shoes for Savage are nothing great just a oem replacement and actually have less lining when new than the stock linings.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by Tocsik on 07/14/23 at 14:21:26

You say these have been bad since they were replaced. I wonder if something was not put back together exactly the way it should.

I've heard it's very hard to wear out the rear shoes on this bike, but when I shimmed my rear pulley at 18K I went ahead and replaced my rear brake shoes using EBC. I'm at close to 28K now and the rear brake is fine.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/14/23 at 15:57:57

I would love to take it apart and check it, but I dont have the means to remove the wheel.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/14/23 at 19:56:22

The pedal and the cable seem to be operating properly. This hasn't happened right away after the rear pads replace, but rather gradually. I used to have an oil leak that I was battling for a long time, I wonder if oil could have been blown in from underside into the hub assembly?

Right now almost no braking happens when I apply light pressure to the brakes, I feel it engaging but there is very little braking force. And rolling at slow speed, about 5mph, if I try to stop the bike with the rear brake alone I need to apply so much pressure to the pedal that it starts to tip the bike over.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by Ruttly on 07/14/23 at 20:36:17

Get a new cable

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/23 at 20:38:43

I want to know what the pedal Feels Like.
Foot on peg
How far do you have to push the pedal before it does not want to go further?

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by Ruttly on 07/14/23 at 21:13:54

Is brake arm positioned on the cam properly ?

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by Dave on 07/15/23 at 04:15:14

One issue that can affect brake performance is rust on the steel lining in the rear drum.

When the bike is on the sidestand, it leans in a direction that doesn't allow the rear brake to drain all the water out of the drum. If you wash your bike and don't go for a ride to dry it out, or if your bike gets rain on hard....the steel brake lining can rust and when you go for your next ride the rust gets scrubbed off by the brake shoes and get embedded in the lining.

This issue can be prevented by taking your bike on a ride after you wash it to dry everything out. Not only does the brake get rusty - there are several places on the bike that hold water and it will not go away for a very long time without a ride. The right rear cylinder stud and the top of the cylinder head are a couple of water traps.

For those who haft to store their bikes outside........I am not sure how to prevent eventual corrosion. While parked the top of the engine and the rear brake are somewhat proteted by the fuel tank and rear fender.

IF you discover your rear brake is rusty you can sand the rust off of the steel lining and brake shoe friction surface - then use brake cleaner to get them free of dust.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/15/23 at 06:50:47

I think this may be exactly what my problem is. The bike is stored outside, and I don't ride it much, so rain water must be destroying the inside of my hub.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/15/23 at 08:25:14

Maybe,,
How far do you have to push the pedal before it does not want to go further?
Back to top

You have stated
I'm not a mechanic
Without Saying
I'm not a mechanic
Please answer that question

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/15/23 at 10:11:31

7F6066617C7B4A7A4A72606C27150 wrote:

Maybe,,
How far do you have to push the pedal before it does not want to go further?
Back to top

You have stated
I'm not a mechanic
Without Saying
I'm not a mechanic
Please answer that question

Well it depends on how I adjust the nut on the cable, it can make for a very wide range of motion, from 1" to 3" i guess. The pedal works and feels normal, its when the brakes grab, and I can feel the grabbing in the pedal feedback, there is just not enough force - like Dave said, it feels like the brakes are contaminated with rust and water.

I wonder if its a good idea to try and burn the brakes by going highway speed and lightly applying the rear brake for a prolonged period of time to try and burn off whatever contaminants?

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by TheSneeze on 07/15/23 at 13:42:44

If you have rust particles imbedded in the brake shoes, they will not burn off. That's why it was suggested to sand the shoe surface and drum surface.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/17/23 at 17:47:18

Dumb question, when releasing the pedal, should it always return all the way up until firm, or should there be some free play where you can lift the pedal up further?

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/23 at 18:38:38

Well it depends on how I adjust the nut on the cable, it can make for a very wide range of motion, from 1" to 3" i guess.

That is what I wanted to hear you say.

What Do You Know about your brakes?

You have all the mechanical advantage you should have unlock the tire up.
It's not working
Dave told you about outside storage.
Everything he said seems to be coming to a neighborhood near you.
If it's parked outside expect trouble with switches. You gotta get some kinda cover on it.
Doesn't sound like you have a place to take the rear wheel off.
A nice day, a rope, a friend, a tree,, be niiice!

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/17/23 at 18:48:45

I will make a video of my pedal operation, maybe you guys can look and advise me if that seems normal. I'll try to do tomorrow.

Title: Re: Stronger rear brake?
Post by och on 07/19/23 at 14:26:39

Guys, can you check out the video and see if everything seems normal or not?

https://youtu.be/oZ_ZfjqqT7k