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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Best lithium battery /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1683213798 Message started by Thumperman on 05/04/23 at 08:23:18 |
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Title: Best lithium battery Post by Thumperman on 05/04/23 at 08:23:18 can someone recommend a good lithium battery for my stock Savage? |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by och on 05/04/23 at 09:22:49 61627B475A425F4A5D2F0 wrote:
They are generally nothing but trouble, not many reputable brands. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/04/23 at 10:25:03 I have LiFePO4 batteries in all 7 of my bikes. I'm not brand loyal but have had good luck with Deltran (Battery Tender), Parts Unlimited as well as Duraboost batteries. The battery in the Savage is from Parts Unlimited and it is a direct fit meaning it is the OEM form factor. Make sure that you get a battery with an internal BMS. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Dave on 05/04/23 at 10:48:18 My Cafe' Savage has an EarthX brand. https://earthxbatteries.com/product/etx12a/ I installed it 10 years ago and it is still working just fine. It has never been on a charger and every spring it fires right up....a lithium battery doesn't lose power when sitting like a lead acid battery does. The Savage doesn't have any "parasite" electrical draw like a clock, or USB charger....when you turn off the key there is nothing drawing power from the battery. If you do have a bike that draws power while turned off.....then a battery tender will be required (with any battery). If you allow a Lithium Ion battery to discharge - they are generally ruined. Some brands have a "shut off" that disconnects the batter when the voltage gets low so that you won't ruin the battery. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by verslagen1 on 05/04/23 at 11:09:15 0A313C2B3A362D2B3038352A590 wrote:
the stock savage does have a small parasitic draw from the decomp controller. might be as small as 50ma. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/04/23 at 11:28:45 615A5740515D46405B535E41320 wrote:
Right. A conventional battery looses 1% charge per day, whereas a Lithium battery looses 1% per month. A battery will a BMS will prevent over charging and will shut the battery down when the voltage drops below 12VDC. When a battery goes into low voltage protection mode my Battery Tender doesn't "see" the battery and therefore doesn't charge it. I have to use a conventional battery charger for about 10 minutes to "wake the battery up" (getting it over 12VDC) and then I can use the Battery Tender to complete the job. Even with that one oddity - I find having a Lithium battery a joy. My bikes don't operate weekly and sometimes it could be well over a month. The lithium batteries crack these bikes over like they were started the day before. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Armen on 05/04/23 at 12:15:52 Have Shorai lithium in my bikes. Nothing but great experience. Not so great with other brands. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Dave on 05/04/23 at 17:37:26 382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 wrote:
Oh yeah....forgot about that. I took my electric compression release and controller off, and I have a manual compression release (that I seldom need to use). |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by ohiomoto on 05/04/23 at 18:42:34 58636E7968647F79626A67780B0 wrote:
I love my lithium battery. Pretty much the same experience as Dave except it's been about 8 years, I have an Antigravity battery, and I managed to kill one of their batteries! I left the lights on the different times (three different ways too :-[ ). It survived the first two incidents with a jump from a car (not running), but the third time killed it. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by och on 05/04/23 at 20:39:27 Pretty much the same experience as Dave except it's been about 8 years, I have an Antigravity battery, and I managed to kill one of their batteries! I left the lights on the different times (three different ways too :-[ ). It survived the first two incidents with a jump from a car (not running), but the third time killed it. ------------------------- See, thats concerning, since it failed from being over discharged that means it does not have a proper protection circuit. A lithium battery with no protection circuit is a fire risk if overcharged, or if charged too quick after an over discharge. There is a reason why EV auto makers design their batteries with all kinds of cooling systems, protection circuits, "smart" charging, etc - and they still sometimes self ignite. I just don't trust these aftermarket lithium batteries, they are not made by established brands, and I don't know what quality cells they are using, and I don't trust their protection circuits. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Dave on 05/05/23 at 04:13:01 There have been a lot of "new" forum members who have killed their wet cell or AGM lead acid batteries when they mistakenly turn the ignition switch into the "park" mode instead of the OFF position.......or they shut the bike off with the right handlebar kill switch and leave the ignition switch in the ON position. Lead Acid batteries don't like to be fully discharged either - however they can sometimes be revived after a full discharge. AGM lead acid batteries are great as they don't leak - but can also die in an instant without any warning.....most wet cell batteries show some signs of sluggishness when they are getting old. Lithium batteries aren't for everyone, and they do have a bit different personality than a lead acid battery - but for some folks the benefits of small size, light weight and slow discharge make them the best choice. They come as standard equipment in a lot of dirt bikes where size and weight are crucial. I put a lithium battery in my Cafe' Savage as I didn't have room for a full size battery. (On my stock bikes I use AGM lead acid batteries that fit the stock battery box....they have clocks and computers and pull power while in storage so I put on a tender every few weeks in the winter). There likely are a lot of cheaply made Lithium batteries that are Chinese copies - however the Antigravity, EarthX and a few other "name" brands are well made and have good customer service/warranties. Read the customer reviews when you are shopping - as with any purchase if you go cheap.......you may regret it later. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Thumperman on 05/05/23 at 05:54:07 Thanks for the input, I ordered a parts unlimited battery. All the normal outlets showed zero stock on the Duraboost batteries. Kinda spendy but the Li-ion batteries seem to behave better then the lead acid batteries. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/05/23 at 08:00:09 606C670F0 wrote:
You seem to think that all lithium chemistries are the same - and that certainly isn't the case. Most of the lithium batteries used for high-density automotive applications are LiCoO2 or LiNiMnCoO2. These are inherently unstable and do require cooling during charging and use to eliminate (minimize) the risk of thermal runaway. These batteries are chosen because they can provide energy density (storage capacity) greater than 350 Wh/L. Power Sport (Motorcycle) batteries use a LiFePO4 chemistry (which I noted in my first post above). These batteries have a lower storage capacity between 200-250 Wh/L but are inherently stable and therefore do not require cooling. In fact, Tesla is now using LiFePO4 batteries as for vehicles sold as "standard range". There are other chemistries in testing that offer higher storage than LiCoO2 and are inherrently stable. These include lithium-sulfur and lithium-silicon carbon. These batteries are also inherently stable can offer storage capacities in excess of 500Wh/L. This is all a long winded way of saying (but 100% on topic) not all Lithium batteries are the same. Each chemistry has advantages and disadvantages - and the technology is improving all of the time. Like it or not, we are heading towards a future where the batteries mean everything. It's worth your effort to know the differences in available batteries so you can be an informed user/buyer. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by och on 05/05/23 at 16:52:53 You seem to think that all lithium chemistries are the same - and that certainly isn't the case. Most of the lithium batteries used for high-density automotive applications are LiCoO2 or LiNiMnCoO2. These are inherently unstable and do require cooling during charging and use to eliminate (minimize) the risk of thermal runaway. These batteries are chosen because they can provide energy density (storage capacity) greater than 350 Wh/L. Power Sport (Motorcycle) batteries use a LiFePO4 chemistry (which I noted in my first post above). These batteries have a lower storage capacity between 200-250 Wh/L but are inherently stable and therefore do not require cooling. In fact, Tesla is now using LiFePO4 batteries as for vehicles sold as "standard range". There are other chemistries in testing that offer higher storage than LiCoO2 and are inherrently stable. These include lithium-sulfur and lithium-silicon carbon. These batteries are also inherently stable can offer storage capacities in excess of 500Wh/L. This is all a long winded way of saying (but 100% on topic) not all Lithium batteries are the same. Each chemistry has advantages and disadvantages - and the technology is improving all of the time. Like it or not, we are heading towards a future where the batteries mean everything. It's worth your effort to know the differences in available batteries so you can be an informed user/buyer. [/quote] -------------------------------------------- Of course not all lithium battery chemistries are the same, and I don't claim to have a good understanding of different chemistries. To the best of my knowledge however, all of them have a potential to self combust, just some are more stable than others, and all of them will combust under improper charging conditions. That being said, I have no problem with lithium batteries, I am just wary of batteries from non established brands. I am a long time flashlight enthusiast, and I've heard many horror stories from exploding 18650 batteries - there is a guy on candlepower forums with permanent lung damage sustained from smoke he inhaled when a single 18650 cell exploded in his room. There are many bad lithium cells on the market, a lot of them are reconditioned used cells, and I'm afraid unknown brands may be using these reconditioned cells to build automotive batteries. There is no way I am taking the risk - I'll wait until mainstream brands start selling lithium automotive batteries. Even for my flashlights I only buy 18650s and 21700s from reputable brands (Panasonic, Tenergy), and only from known sources, as there are plenty of fakes on ebay/amazon. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by och on 05/05/23 at 17:05:10 There have been a lot of "new" forum members who have killed their wet cell or AGM lead acid batteries when they mistakenly turn the ignition switch into the "park" mode instead of the OFF position.......or they shut the bike off with the right handlebar kill switch and leave the ignition switch in the ON position. Lead Acid batteries don't like to be fully discharged either - however they can sometimes be revived after a full discharge. AGM lead acid batteries are great as they don't leak - but can also die in an instant without any warning.....most wet cell batteries show some signs of sluggishness when they are getting old. ------------------------------------- That's what happened to my Yuasa AGM battery - it died in an instant while I was sitting at a red light. ------------------------------------- There likely are a lot of cheaply made Lithium batteries that are Chinese copies - however the Antigravity, EarthX and a few other "name" brands are well made and have good customer service/warranties. Read the customer reviews when you are shopping - as with any purchase if you go cheap.......you may regret it later. ------------------------------------- Just gotta make sure what type of cells they are using. There are a lot of cells on the market that are bombs waiting to go off, for instance the ones in the link below. They are in fact used laptop batteries that have stopped charging because the original protection circuit was triggered due to over charge or over discharge - the companies that sell such batteries simply take these bad recycled cells, remove the protection circuits, force charge them, relabel, and sell them with ridiculous claims of up to 10,000mah. Not saying that the brands you listed use such cells, I'm just very cautious to the point of being paranoid when it comes to lithium batteries. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185869595184 https://www.ebay.com/itm/394578750194 ------------------------------------- |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by buster6315 on 05/05/23 at 21:02:55 I had a lithium battery in my other bike that didn't last even three years. I had it on a lithium charger from time-to-time. So, I bought a AGM battery replacement. I heard that there has been improvements to lithium batteries in the last 3-4 years, but my experience soured me on them. |
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Title: Re: Best lithium battery Post by Ruttly on 05/05/23 at 23:17:01 Shorai is a good one , $$. Got one in the Sportster for along time. I haven’t started it this year , last ride was before Thanksgiving , won’t be a problem. |
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