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Message started by groupus on 04/24/23 at 08:15:46

Title: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/24/23 at 08:15:46

I recently took apart my carburetor to check out the condition after being stored for a while. But I didn't expect to find was the excessive wear on the carb slider. It's is worn through the Teflon coating on the front, but it's actually shaving aluminum off on the bottom of the back side. This type of wear is actually expected as the air flowing through the carb pushes the slide back into the body and can rub on sharp edges of the machining. It's a common issue on keihin carbs and can be mitigated by gently sanding the sharp edges of the carb body.
My question is, is this slider shot, and where can I find a replacement? The bike has maybe 35,000 mi on it and the rubber diaphragm is in really great shape. I have had a cone air filter on it for the past 10,000 or so.
The slider seems to move without binding. I still plan on filing and sanding the sharp edge inside the carb body. Would there be any issue with removing the rubber nub on the diaphragm that aligns this slider and rotating it 180° so that it doesn't continue to wear the same spot?

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/24/23 at 08:16:36

Photo 2

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/24/23 at 08:17:45

Photo 3

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/24/23 at 08:20:50

Inside of carb body.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/24/23 at 10:03:31

Wow! That is a heck of a lot of slide wear. Thanks for the photos. Never seen one that bad. The lower edge is really worn away. How did it run?

A new OEM slide is $202 bucks. There's an item I see on eBay for about $78 bucks but I have no idea if it is a quality component. It's eBay item number 394211993714. This link should get you to it. If not, then use the search function with the item number.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394211993714?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230105140155%26meid%3D0725e5260bdf45ec9de24145d6ca1aef%26pid%3D101666%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D394211993714%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DTour+Max&_trksid=p2380057.c101666.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A156f5837-e2c0-11ed-9e61-7efbf754ecf1%7Cparentrq%3Ab42c48f91870aa72146aae72ffffe636%7Ciid%3A1

Please let us know what you find out and how you fix the thing.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/24/23 at 12:01:12

It is listed as part #13500-24B40 diaphragm assy - between $140 and $200 most places. That eBay one is much cheaper, but I don't want to waste $ on some Chinese junk.
The bike has been running alright, just a little rougher at high rpm. I can tell it's rich bc there's soot all over the rear brake cable. That's why I took it apart really. I wanted to check the main jet size and white spacer.
It has a cone air filter, 153.8 (?) Main jet, 2 washers in place of the white spacer, stock pilot, idle screw 1.5 turns out, open Harley exhaust with small baffle, and polished exhaust port.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by ohiomoto on 04/24/23 at 20:34:23

That's what my slide looked like when I replaced it. Mine would stick and it created a lean condition under load. I ordered a replacement from Partzilla.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/25/23 at 06:48:54

I can only guess that type of wear comes from an airfilter that was improperly installed or a leak in the boot.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/26/23 at 12:21:02

Hey Groupus, that main jet size is unusual. I don't think it is "153.8". Can you double check and let us know what the actual size is.

Could you also check the size of the two orifices in the bottom of your worn out slide. Those two holes control the velocity of the slide movement. As you mentioned, CV slides wear out. The CV carbs are also known for accelerated wear on the slide needles and needle jets. The slide movement is a result of the vacuum created by the velocity of the air moving through the carb. That air movement stops each time the intake valve closes, and starts each time the intake valve opens. So, the slide is constantly bouncing up and down as the air flows through the venturi. Even at steady state throttle position, the slide is bouncing up & down (rapidly). For instance, steady cruising at 4000 rpm results in the slide bouncing up & down 2000 times per minute.

To improve throttle response, some folks enlarge the orifices in the slide. If the orifices are larger, the slide responds faster to changes in air flow through the venturi. Problem with that is the velocity of those up & down pulsing movements also increases. That probably increases wear.

It would be beneficial to all of us if we knew more about your slide orifices. On a stock slide, the two orifice holes are right about .096". A #40 drill bit just fits into the holes. If you don't have a #40 drill bit, you can use a 3/32" and a 7/64" as "go/no go" gages. If the holes are close, the 3/32" will fit but the 7/64" won't fit.

Can you check those orifice holes and let us know what you find? These are the holes in question. By the way, leaving one of those screws out will also speed up the slide movement. Are both screws in place?

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by ohiomoto on 04/27/23 at 16:47:07

717B7F757E77737A242226160 wrote:

I can only guess that type of wear comes from an air filter that was improperly installed or a leak in the boot.

---------------

I have a suspicion that the PO of my bike may have done things to it that I was unaware of. It had low miles on it and it was clean, but my slide was as worn as the one pictured in this thread. The PO had a blown-up 86 that he gave me for parts. I suspect that he might have "customized" the 96 with the tank/speedometer from the 86 and ran a pod filter.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by Dave on 04/28/23 at 03:13:12

I don't think I would spend any time or money on this carb....the slide and carb body are worn/damaged. A new slide the worn carb will become worn quickly....the slide will not have a good fit in the worn carb.

I believe it is time for a replacement. Find a good used carb or install a new aftermarket carb.

And make sure you have a filter that works properly and filters out abrasive crap.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by ohiomoto on 04/28/23 at 19:11:13

I respectfully disagree Dave. I don't think the time spent and $500 investment is the right choice for everyone. Many of us just need a properly functioning stock carb.

I've put at least 25k miles on my bike since I replaced the slide on my bike and it's still running perfectly fine. I haven't had a reason to pull the carb. (But I am curious to see how it's doing so I will take a peak next time I'm working on the bike. )

That's my opinion and you are welcome to disagree. :)

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by Dave on 04/30/23 at 04:08:27

I just don't see how a good slide is going to last in that worn/scratched slide bore. (Open the photo link and look at the bore.)

If you watch eBay for a few weeks you can find decent used carbs for less than $300 that are in much better shape than this worn carb/slide....however you need to shop a bit as there are a lot of too expensive and trashy carbs for sale. With a bit of cleaning and some parts swaps you could have a good working stock carb for less than $500.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/404127682204?hash=item5e17e30e9c:g:1DwAAOSwQTZj0tmW&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwAfMRH%2FwiHSIhaIZ5VhI0kIcTBmGp7Y4BaIya1%2BMvPlnkyKgYNvRh5%2F7JZkIa8OTozjAUpTM5l5K%2B8k%2BD%2BoaSgH3tkSRDYgsNOKp7T%2FEfTUvllfOmwx0qK7j8t0RGUqmxJql9ArcrRXbwJskayQQBYCtFxipSi1fagWgfKlEy%2BC%2B47XhUH5eG346Py5jBvBSWksjxw0MZVMWedBE0gYmmMvdQGzfg%2BIGRrnGcwo13SlhMzZYmpbJSJAsnPXBOF74Wg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_KF5pz6YQ

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/30/23 at 08:52:33

Hey Mike, I got the bike from the original owner in totally stock condition, so the only modifications are my own. It's a 2002 I bought in 07 with 2075 miles on it. I've done a bunch of stuff to it, but never drilled the slider holes. They are between a 3/32" and a 7/64" still bit.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/30/23 at 08:58:49

As far as the main jet, here's a picture. Really looks like a 153.8. that's an odd size indeed, but I was looking for something between stock and a 155. I also removed the white spacer and replaced it with 2 washers. Pilot jet is stock and air screw is tuned to 1.5 turns out. I've done lots of tuning to this bike. It was my first bike and has lived many iterations over the past 16 years.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/30/23 at 09:42:03

I'll say, there are no issues with the carb boot fitting because, well there isn't one. I've been running this cheap pod air filter, which I'll admit doesn't filter very well. There is no doubt it let in a lot of fine dirty and abrasives. Admittedly, I was younger and not as wise then. I plan on replacing this with an oiled foam filter coupled to the original rubber boot to filter better and provide the correct directional air flow.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 04/30/23 at 09:45:43

And just for fun, here's a picture of the bike.
Fyi, The pod air filter has been on the bike for the last 5-10k miles of it's 35+k life. I've had a dozen other bikes during this time, and rebuilt the carbs on all. The only one with carbs even as close to this bad is my 79 goldwing after several cross country trips and a lot of daily driving. I've replaced the slides with used ones and finely sanded the sharp edges inside the carb body and added an oiled uni filter. It's been good since.
I have 4 other bikes currently, so the savage barely gets ridden anymore. Maybe 500 miles a year. I'd like to keep it in good running order, but I'm hesitant to drop $3-500 on a used carb.
Any suggestions for a cost effective alternative carb that would be an upgrade? Something that's not a pain to tune either.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/30/23 at 15:41:34

Groupus, check this old post on the knock-off PWK. I've been running one for almost two years now and it works pretty darned good. Not too difficult to tune either. The knock-offs are a crap shoot, but the cost is so low they are worth the risk. Seems as though you can get them in two different configurations, but I believe both will work just fine.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1625732492

I agree with Ohiomoto, a new slide will probably work OK in your carb.
But I also agree with Dave, it's not worth spending big bucks on your stock carb. If you are hell bent on using a stocker, I would risk the $80 bucks on the ebay slide. If it doesn't work, write it off to experience. Your stock carb isn't worth investing $200 bucks in for an OEM slide. You can see from your pics that your stocker has seen the acid dip one too many times. BTW, that main jet is a 152.5. That thing has really been abraded.

If you are game for spending big cash, and you want top-notch stuff that's pretty much plug-n-play, get in touch with Lancer for one of his VM kits.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by Ruttly on 04/30/23 at 19:15:37

Love that wood carving , yard art. Very Cool Totem. One near Yosemite a wooden Statue of Liberty.

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by groupus on 05/01/23 at 07:59:33

4E48473B393E3A0A0 wrote:

Mike, that is exactly what I'm looking for! Half the price of even just the cheap slide, easy enough to set up with the recommended jet sizes, and straightforward tuning after that. I read through that entire post and there's no serious modifications to make. I'm definitely not looking for top notch gear, I just want the thing to run when I do get it out. I'll be ordering this soon and let you know how it goes.
Fyi, the main jet in my picture is all scuffed up because I hit it with a wire wheel to clean some of the tarnish off for the pic. Tried to make it easier to see, but I made it worse ::)

Title: Re: Carb slider wear
Post by ohiomoto on 05/01/23 at 18:20:47

Partzilla has the slides for $188, and that might work fine for several years at 500 miles a year.

But Dave pointed out the wear on the carb and I can see his point. If you have to invest in much more you could be closer to a new carb or just go with the DBM PWK knock-off option.

So, I now respectfully disagree and agree with Dave (and DBM). lol

EDIT: The slide was around $120 when replaced mine. I haven't had it apart in years (I ride 3-4k yr), and I'm interested in seeing how it looks now.