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Message started by WebsterMark on 04/12/23 at 04:38:09

Title: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/12/23 at 04:38:09

So Puddinhead waves his wand and set’s emission standards with the goal to eliminate a massive portion of gas powered vehicles in 10 years.

This has zero chance of actually working. There’s no way the infrastructure can transition that quickly. I just read this article reporting on a paper looking at the needed supply chain.

Why are we doing this? Why not develop nuclear to replace coal and let market demand respond to better battery technology as it’s developed to drive the transition to EV?

I was at Honda motorcycle dealer yesterday and the Zero electric motorcycles were $17k.

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/04/critical-metal-needs-rise-while-cars-trucks-decarbonize

“Monotonic growth in global demand for critical metals to 2050 is the most prevalent trend,” You said. “It’s mainly driven by the electric vehicle market penetration and battery technology development.”

If achieving a scenario where 40% of vehicles are electric by 2050, the need for lithium globally will increase 2,909% from the 2020 level. If 100% of vehicles are electric by 2050, the need for lithium more than doubles, to 7,513%.

From the years 2010 to 2050, in a scenario where all vehicles are electric, the annual demand for lithium globally increases from 747 metric tons to 2.2 million metric tons.

By mid-century, for example, the demand for nickel eclipses other critical metals, as the global need ranges from 2 million metric tons, where 40% of vehicles are electric, to 5.2 million metric tons where all vehicles are electric.

The annual demand for cobalt (ranging from 0.3 to 0.8 million metric tons) and manganese (ranging from 0.2 to 0.5 million metric tons) will rise by the same order of magnitude in 2050, according to the paper.

Currently, critical metals and minerals are centralized in politically unstable Chile, Congo, Indonesia, Brazil, Argentina and South Africa, according to the World Bank.

“The unstable supplies of critical metals and minerals can exacerbate supply risks under surging demand,” You said.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by zevenenergie on 04/12/23 at 11:30:33

Can i have some of these materials you talk about ?Because I only have aluminum, bronze and steel lying around here, and some zinc and brass and copper. And som tin (solder)

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by Eegore on 04/12/23 at 16:12:47

Maybe they can be powered on dreams.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/13/23 at 03:44:58

It’s just as realistic.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/23 at 01:29:35

The same people who screamed about running out of oil a few years ago believe the earth has the minerals for endless batteries. Drilling for oil, bad.. The tanks and pump jack that support a well that provides the oil for industry and gas don't wreck the environment near like those huge, awful windmills that use things that don't recycle.
Anyone can see how this is going to work out. But the same people who are always wrong will not see.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by LANCER on 04/14/23 at 04:05:09

Those pushing for all electric know it is not possible, but do so because their goal is to bankrupt our country and reduce us to a 3rd world economy, which also devastates our military capabilities and will to fight.
China takes over world leadership without firing a shot at us.
And who is assisting them in this process ?
The Big Guy and his cartel.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/14/23 at 05:16:14

5E535C5157400005320 wrote:

But the thing is, they’ve convinced themselves it is possible. They are not plotting to actively destroy the country, they wouldn’t do that. But they’re so completely blinded by this warped ideology, they only see what they want to see. It’s the age-old quest for power. Money may be the root of all evil but absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Look at the ridiculous climate change narrative that’s been going on for 20-30 years now and has penetrated virtually every segment of society yet the minuscule effects are completely unnoticeable to the general public. So with that as the base, how hard is it really to convince the masses to go backwards in time, to give up freedom, to be colder in the winter, to eat bland foods…. Part of how this succeeds is those doing the talking imagine themselves exempt from the harsh realities of their plans. You think Democratic members of Congress live next door to a house full of illegal immigrants who crossed the open border and voted for them? Hell no.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by Eegore on 04/14/23 at 06:54:10

"But the thing is, they’ve convinced themselves it is possible. They are not plotting to actively destroy the country, they wouldn’t do that. But they’re so completely blinded by this warped ideology, they only see what they want to see."

Agreed. It's ridiculous to think US politics are specifically being designed to destroy itself. They are just idiots, not super-minds. If any guy on the internet can see the master plan, so can everyone else, which makes the plan pretty darn weak.

There was a similar approach to solar where one of my shops are located, they were attempting to push legislation that would require it in certain commercial applications. An evaluation of my property showed it would take 72 years for me to get to zero . That's efficient? Legally requiring me to take on 72 years of energy debt. We fought it and won.

However looking into the same property 10 years later, the solar installation made sense as it was only an 8 year deficit. That's how far solar efficiency and cost came in just 10 years, for me, in my specific area with the exemption of all other humans in all other known areas.

So in my case completely blowing off solar would have been a bad decision. Being forced to buy into it too early would have been a bad decision. Thinking my local government was creating this legislation for the purpose of damaging itself would just be nonsense.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/14/23 at 15:29:30

How much of the ROI was based on subsidies?

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by Eegore on 04/14/23 at 23:11:39

"How much of the ROI was based on subsidies?"

For me, none as I wouldn't apply for them. What I pay for the solar setup would save X-amount of dollars per-year in electricity payments.

I paid up front for the solar system and the cost savings of electricity at that location and only that location with the exemption of all other known locations, added up to the price I paid for the solar system in 7 years 10 months.

Maintenance of the system, which is practically nothing, is all I pay for electricity at this time. So far I have had no battery failures and they are still holding 90+ charge.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/16/23 at 04:05:17

Well done. A proper use of solar.

My brother and I go camping at this one particular spot by a fast-moving stream. We try to go every year but lately we’ve slipped a bit (as a sidenote, I’m surprised that I seem to be busier the older I get. I thought it would go the other direction.) We’ve always talked about making a small turbine to throw in the flow to power lights. I’ve seen products like this, that you can buy online that are designed to do exactly that. That would be a cool thing to have.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/16/23 at 04:10:06

In a former life, I had a job where the product that was selling, was being used in energy storage systems under development. I got to go to Japan and Vancouver Canada to visit facilities and offer technical advice on our product. Ultimately, neither system was able to be commercialized. One has very specialized and very limited use.

Energy storage is the Achilles heel for this religion of renewables. It can’t be overcome.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by Serowbot on 04/16/23 at 08:55:08

192B2C3D3A2B3C032F3C254E0 wrote:

It can’t be overcome.

Famous last words

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/16/23 at 17:16:13

Researchers have been working on this for decades and have made very little progress. The widespread use of batteries in cars was not a new discovery, it was money put into manufacturing to modestly refine known technology and then mass produce a battery suitable for vehicles. There is no technology that holds large quantities of energy in relatively small areas for long periods of time that can cycle repeatedly. That’s what’s missing from the solar, wind power generation.

Now you can channel your inner Tinkerbell and say you do believe in fairies and that renewables can power the energy needs of the future…..they’re both fantasy.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/17/23 at 03:17:25

Happened to see the article below while reading this morning.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/lithium-ion-battery-disruption-ready

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by J Mac on 04/17/23 at 18:01:04

Well, if anybody is an authority, he is. That's a pretty lightweight article for Spectrum. Thanks for sharing.

4F7D7A6B6C7D6A55796A73180 wrote:

Happened to see the article below while reading this morning.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/lithium-ion-battery-disruption-ready

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/23 at 00:22:33

It’s ridiculous that manufacturing technologies haven’t changed in 30 years, Whittingham says. “We need to reduce the 60 to 80 kilowatt hours) of electricity it takes to produce a one kWh battery,” he says. “We’ve got to find new manufacturing technologies.”

Yeah,, bummer

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by zevenenergie on 04/18/23 at 01:44:04

I was at my local motor repair shop a while ago talking whit the oner and he told me that one lithium battery for a bike can poison a lake the size of a city to such an extent that all the fish will die.
I had heard that before but what is that true, I wonder?

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/23 at 02:47:21

I don't know if that is true, but if it is, that is a real problem. I see videos about someone disappearing and Finally after twenty years someone finds their car in a lake or river,suddenly they aren't missing anymore.
Heck, I heard that just being in a low level crash the E car gets totalled, because of damage,or Fear of damage, in the battery pack. Some of them are potted, like so many electronic things,, our ignition module, and if the pack is damaged, it's not like you can just remove and replace the damaged cells..
Maybe someone will discover a potting material that can be dissolved without hurting the pack. Here is a place for some chemists to make the news.

Knowing the answer,,
Can one lousy little battery poison a lake?
Yeah we need to know that.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/18/23 at 04:03:18

716E7D6E656E656E796C626E0B0 wrote:

I think that answer would depend upon the political ideology of whoever authored the research paper. Right now I’m told that a nuclear power plant could destroy the world, melt all the way through to China, because of a stupid movie made 35 years ago so we can’t build them. As a result, we have a huge number of people foolish enough to think that we’re gonna power the world in the future using windmills and solar panels, both intermittent power sources totally dependent upon energy storage which, like climate change, is always just around the next corner. We’re steps, and we’re almost there. But when you get to the corner, it’s just around the next corner etc. etc.

So does a single battery destroy a lake? Because EVs are the hot item right now for leftist, the answer will be no. Now, toss in a single “bullet” from an “AR-15” and the lake will be quarantined for 100 years….!

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by zevenenergie on 04/18/23 at 04:17:14

I also think that a political preference, is not really a good way to judge a batterys polluting capacity.

There is something very strange going on with energy politics.
In germany they will soon close the last two nuclear power plants because of you know why.

And 500 km = 312,5 miles away, Denmark is opening a huge nuclear power plant that can supply half the country with energy.

I think it would be much better If we skip politics.

The leftys try to stick that environmental political agenda up everyone's ass. So better not bent over.

But the right, will crappity smack you up to.

The liberals want the freedom to crappity smack anyone.

Black Lives Matter have been crappity smacked and now want to crappity smack to.

Proudboys mainly crappity smack themselves.

The communists crappity smack the whole group.

The Chinese have a slit that runs across. so it remains to be seen how they are going to crappity smack the west.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/23 at 10:45:09

I also think that a political preference, is not really a good way to judge a batterys polluting capacity.

Yeah,, show me the data,,

You seem to have an appropriately dark view of the world.. Don't fight for a Team.
Fight for what makes sense, the truth, the people who demand I follow the Science, which ,Due To Observation, the Science is shown to be nothing. Yet those are the people who demand I also believe a man can get some high heels, a purse and dress and declare himself a woman and By Gosh, there She stands in all her glory. And it's not looking good for the women. So far the best women are actually men. Beauty pageant, woman of the year, World Record weight lifting and records set in swimming. Some Muslim dude just got busted for kikkinAss in a chess tournament. They got interested in him because he was winning too easily. The burka just didn't cut it..
And suddenly, half of society can't tell you what a woman is.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by zevenenergie on 04/19/23 at 03:28:53

I also think that when a liar files a lawsuit against a liar that doesn't necessarily bring forth the truth.

It would be much more interesting if the judge could be a wise man, and could say; Hey what about those voting machines? Prove to me that they are watertight, because I want to make sure that democracy is not in danger.

It all gets a lot juicier this way.

I also think that is actually a question that is on the mind of the entire population so let's not deny the elephant.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by WebsterMark on 04/19/23 at 04:05:38

The pandemic taught us a lot of things, and one of those is often people labeled as experts by the corporate media-machine are not necessarily experts. They’re advocates for the political ideology of the news organization.

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by zevenenergie on 04/19/23 at 04:07:19

I come from the Netherlands and in the Netherlands we think practically and are very direct.

Let's face it. Why don't we have an independent study of some 50 gifted young hackers who are allowed to unleash their skills on the voting machines?

What kind of ballless people are you if you don't throw that demand on the table?

Title: Electrification (Better !)
Post by MnSpring on 04/19/23 at 10:48:28

Trading Trucks, doing it for years. F-150 XLT, crew cab, 6.5 box.
(NEVER buy new. unless you lease)

Had a 2011 with 80,000 miles, bought in 2018 with 30,000, V8 5.0, 19.1 MPG average over 50,000 miles,.
6 months ago Traded for a 2019, with 34,000 miles, with 3.5 V6, Twin Turbo.
At the Same driving, Same roads, Same amount of pulling, Same weights, 9,000 miles, 14.8 MPG

So 8 years newer technology, 750 pounds lighter, 2 cylinders less, it is,
4 + gallons per mile LESS !!!!!!!!!!
What a IMPROVEMENT !

WAY TO GO, woke, DFI, FDS, Socialists.

OH but wait, the ELECTRIC truck is here.
(And ya can’t pull your hat off, on a windy day, going downhill, with it)

Title: Re: Electrification
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/23 at 11:15:35

7F6073606B606B6077626C60050 wrote:

Well, if I was running things, as soon as there was uproar and outrage and accusations that I stole the election, I would open the door to anything and everything.
If I actually won.
How better to solve the problem?
Prove it to them and rub their noses in it.
Why isn't That the first response?
If transparency doesn't exist, why should anyone Trust?