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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil leak on the drive pulley /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1681053330 Message started by gerrit650 on 04/09/23 at 08:15:30 |
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Title: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/09/23 at 08:15:30 Hi, this is my first post so bear with me. I have oil on the left side of the drive pulley. There does not seem to be any oil behind the pulley, I did not pull the pulley off yet. I will attempt to post 2 pictures. I did not see any posts about a leak in this area. I did have the drive belt too thight for a while[1 year orso], until I read the info on belt tension on this site. I hope I did not mess up the seal that I assume is behind the pulley. Thanks, Gerrit. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/09/23 at 10:07:32 There's a drain hole under the starter that goes into that area. and sometimes the starter seal can leak. I'd pull the pulley cover 1st, then the starter to check. pulling the pulley is a bear. don't poke the bear. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by och on 04/09/23 at 10:46:43 Release the two bolts that hold the starter and wiggle the starter out. If there is little to no resistance, the starter o-ring is bad and leaking oil and dumping it through the drain hole right into the area you describe. With a good o-ring the starter should snap in very tight. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/09/23 at 11:08:50 Okay, thank you, I will pull the starter tomorrow. As you can tell the pictures did not show. I will let you know how I get along. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/23 at 14:13:31 That oring has been known to fall into a hard to get to place. I've never pulled a starter, I just think I remember hearing about that happening to guys. Be careful, |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by och on 04/09/23 at 15:04:57 Here is my thread for reference. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1665610530 |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/10/23 at 07:20:43 So I pulled the starter, came out fairly hard and the o-ring looks good. No oil residue around the drain hole at all. I think my 2 pics will show, the oil is just on the outside of the pulley, I don't see any oil behind the pulley, although I did not pull it off yet[din't want to poke the bear ;)]. The oil seems to have started around the nut and spun out when I took a short drive to warm it up and change the oil. I can't see how I accidentally could have spilled oil on that pulley. Do you think I should pull the pulley off? I also got the clutch cover off to inspect the chain tensioner [18.5mm] and the head cover off for the leaky plug. As long as I can tell where everything goes! |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/10/23 at 07:24:04 Picture? |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/10/23 at 08:03:42 Well maybe you need to poke the bear. And you need to check if the pulley is working itself back forth on the splines, which will only get worse with time. To get the nut off, I used to put the front wheel against a wall, put it in gear, stand on the brake, cuss and even then the tires would just slip. But I found that if I put a ratchet strap around the outside of the rear tire to the frame and just sit on it to get enough traction to get it off. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by badwolf on 04/10/23 at 08:37:29 Whenever I get oil in that area it is from leakage around the wires going into the generator. Clean it all up and do a short ride (1-2 miles) then look where it is coming from. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:01:40 Go ahead and poke that bear. As a minimum you need to verify that the pulley is good & tight. You might as well simply take the thing off and see what's goin on. I'm sure you are aware that there is a lip seal back there. You need to check it out. There's also an o-ring inside the spacer behind the pulley. That o-ring sits in a groove on the inside diameter of the spacer. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:03:02 You can lock up your rear wheel using a long steel bar. I use a 3/4" breaker bar. Works great but ya gotta be careful. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:04:51 To loosen the pulley nut, you run the bar through the rear pulley and so that it is situated on top of the swing arm. Like this. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:09:20 The bar runs through the pulley and wheel at an angle. There is only one location on the pulley and wheel where the bar will lock up the wheel with one of the thick pulley webs/spokes hitting the bar and NONE of the spokes hitting the bar. This is the be careful part. You don't wanna bend spokes, and you definitely don't wanna break a pulley web. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:11:37 You want one of the THICK pulley webs/spokes (green checkmark) to hit the bar, not one of the thin ones (yellow X). |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by Ruttly on 04/10/23 at 12:13:09 That careful part almost sounds like your speaking of a past screw up ? |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:14:18 To tighten the pulley nut, the lockup bar goes under the swingarm. Same cautions apply, heavy/thick web on the pulley must take the load, no wheel spokes touching the lockup bar. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:16:38 Make sure the thick web is in contact with the bar (green checkmark), not the thin web (yellow X). |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:18:02 A Craftsman breaker bar works OK too. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:26:42 Let us know how tight your pulley nut is. Loose pulleys are a problem. As mentioned earlier, the splines get damaged when the nut is loose. Try and take some clear pictures and post before you reassemble. Also, you wanna apply a few drops of high-strength thread locker (red) to the threads before you install the nut. Since you will be goin through all the trouble to remove your pulley, might as well replace the seal and o-ring while you are in there. Make sure that the spacer doesn't have a deep groove worn in it, or any cuts/nicks in way of the lip seal. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/10/23 at 12:34:31 Hey Ruttly, although I am capable of screwing up one of those thin webs, I have not pulled it off yet. But rest assured, I've broken all sorts of stuff over the years. Even drilled a hole in my hand years ago. Oooooooooo! That hurt. Is there any other way to learn stuff? Can't beat a good screwup. That lesson is cast in concrete. Will never forget it (I hope). Good luck Gerrit. Be sure to fill us in. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by Ruttly on 04/10/23 at 22:27:08 I’ve seen that before , watched a guy drill a hole in his finger. He barely reacted , it went right thru his finger , he seemed pretty calm till he put it in reverse to get it out , it came right out. Then he passed out , almost his knees buckled a few people caught him. Blood , flesh , oh the humanity ! |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/11/23 at 06:31:13 Thank you all for the replies. The pulley nut came off too easy,[after I got ready with big bars and 3/4" sockets ;D] and the pulley is wobbly on the shaft. I assume the shaft is okay cause it is made of harder steel than the pulley. Do I need a new pulley or a good used one? Oil leak. There is dried oil/dirt in the back of the pulley as well as on other parts around it. It looks like the oil came from between the spacer and the shaft, so that would be the o-ring inside the spacer? How do I pull that spacer out? And it would be a good idea to replace the seal now indeed. I assume I can pull/break it out of there and push a new one in from the outside of the trans mission? I tried to add more pics but the max size is 2048 KB? I am not that computer savvy either, so bear with me. Thanks again for all your help. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/11/23 at 06:45:14 Oops, wrong picture :-[ |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/11/23 at 15:07:54 "Do I need a new pulley or a good used one?" You need to inspect both the pulley and the shaft. The splines on both components wear out when the pulley nut is loose. Figure out how to post clear pictures and post photos of the pulley splines and the shaft splines. "How do I pull that spacer out?" The spacers can be tough to remove. I use a stainless-steel worm clamp to protect the spacer. Tighten the clamp on the spacer, then you can pry on the clamp. Those o-rings have a good grip on the shaft so the spacer can be very difficult to get out. As far as posting pictures, I find it helps a lot to load the photos off my iPad on to my PC. Then, I use the "open with" feature (right click) to open the photo using a program called "snipping tool". That snipping tool program seems to be on all of my PCs. Guess it comes with Windows. Use the cropping feature to zero in on the feature you want to display and save the photo. That brings the size of the file waaaaaaaay down, and also enhances the feature you are trying to display. If you can post clear, bright photos, we can help you. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/11/23 at 16:21:15 I was able to get the spacer off, thanks! I think I can post 2 pics. I do think both shaft and pulley have some wear. I would not like to replace that shaft :-[. What options do I have? And I will replace o-ring and seal. Thanks Gerrit. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/11/23 at 16:22:12 shaft |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by DragBikeMike on 04/12/23 at 11:30:01 Your pictures are getting much better. The spines on your pulley look OK but it's hard to tell from the angle of the photo. The transmission output shaft is another story. It has a lot of wear. Changing that shaft is a big job. It requires complete engine disassembly. You will need some special tools and skills. Another option is to reinstall the pulley using Loctite 660. That will pretty much make the thing close to impossible to remove without using a lot of heat. You best make sure you have everything assembled correctly before you throw on the pulley and cinch down the nut. The 660 Loctite should be used in conjunction with the appropriate primer/activator. Google "Loctite 660" and you can find all sorts of info and videos. Another option would be to install one of Dave's 25T pulleys along with a shortened pulley spacer. That will provide a few more millimeters of spline engagement. I would use the Loctite 660 along with the additional spline engagement to provide the best possible installation on those worn transmission shaft splines. This link will give you some info on the 25T pulley installation. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1675564067 Keep those pictures comin. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/12/23 at 15:28:52 74727D01030400300 wrote:
To me the pulley splines look damaged too. you should be able to measure the top and bottom of the splines so we can compare |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/12/23 at 15:53:13 It's caliper time |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/12/23 at 17:23:28 So do I measure across from the top of a spline to the bottom on the opposite side? Because there is an uneven # of splines[13]? On both the shaft and the pulley? Or some other way? |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/23 at 06:51:16 on a single tooth, measure the base, then measure the tip. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/13/23 at 14:07:45 Okay, I measured with a digital caliper. Also measured the non worn part of the shaft for comparison.[ At the end of the shaft under the nut and lock washer] Top Base Shaft-new 2.64 3.64 -worn 2.56 3.57 Pulley-worn 1.65 3.32 Yep, it is fairly wobbly I measured the 'new' part of the shaft to see if my measurements are close. All in millimetres. What is the verdict? :-[ |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/23 at 14:24:01 I measured the shaft, 0.140" [0.356mm] at the base and 0.098 [0.249mm] at the tip. I wasn't extremely careful when I measured so not good enough for government work. And the pulley I found was very loose on the shaft too. I look around and see if I can find another one. You'll need to check the gap filling capabilities of the loctite 660 to know if it will work. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/23 at 14:32:41 Gap fill 0.25 (0.010") - 0.5 mm (0.020") not bad... go for it, just get a good pulley. I think I would put a little rtv on the backside to keep it in the pulley so it don't flow into the spacer. or just rtv the spacer. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/13/23 at 15:06:49 Thanks verslagen, I had a hard time measuring too, The pointy parts get rounded so it is hard to measure. I was wondering if anybody here has used loctite 660 on that shaft before. I can imagine you would put it on both surfaces, slide the pulley on and most of it gets slid off. Then get washer and nut on quickly and torque it before it sets! :'( And don't forget to slide the belt on with it! :-[ I don't know if the gap is much bigger than .25mm? If someone has done this before, please let me know, I did not see it on this forum. Thanks, Gerrit. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/23 at 22:48:42 there are a number of vid's on utube |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 04/21/23 at 06:59:37 Just an update, Thanks for the replies to my oily front pulley. After I get the parts,[new seal and o-ring behind pulley, good used pulley, verslavvy and versi plug] and put them on I'll let you know how it worked. Thanks, Gerrit. |
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Title: Re: Oil leak on the drive pulley Post by gerrit650 on 06/26/23 at 07:06:51 Just an update, The oil leak on the left side of the front pulley probably come from the leaking o-ring inside the spacer. Some oil seeped along the splined shaft to the left side of the front pulley. [because the pulley was wobbly on the shaft]. So with a new seal and o-ring, and a good used pulley from verslagen I put it back together. The shaft was not worn as bad as I thought, so I did not try to put any locktite 660 on, as I thought it would just slide off when I slid on the pulley. Together with the new head plug and the cam chain tensioner mod the savage is back on the road with no oil leaks! Thanks for the help, you are the best! |
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