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Message started by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 08:38:58

Title: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 08:38:58

This is just another attempt to show that post "views" are not "proof" that multiple people read a post.

I will make this post that will receive many "views" in less than a minute.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 08:40:36

In the time it took me to type this which is just about 1 minute, over 100 "views" happened.

This should indicate that in the time I posted my first posting, then looked at my "views" and posted a response, that 100's of members read my post and since I was RIGHT, they didn't respond.

Right?

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by J Mac on 03/11/23 at 09:26:04

Unique views are what matter. We used to use WebTrends at work to analyze web traffic to see what pages people found the most useful. There are a ton of analytics packages out there. This is not a criticism of this useful site, which is free, but the YaBB seems pretty old (I think that's what's used here). The server seems slow, and the search often times out. That being said, the view counter is probably not the most sophisticated. People view pages multiple times from the same IP address, and some people used VPNs. Again, I'm not criticizing. I wouldn't want to run this thing. Setting it up and paying is one thing, but policing it to make sure it's not filled with porn spam and who knows what is the tough part. I've sent a little money to support it, but I'm sure others are much more regular about donating.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by MnSpring on 03/11/23 at 10:00:48

4767656D7067020 wrote:

"This is just another attempt to show that post "views" are not "proof" that multiple people read a post. ..."

Or,

It could be, a way you can show us how you can manipulate a simple, database/forum.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 11:00:38

Or,

It could be, a way you can show us how you can manipulate a simple, database/forum.

Or,

It could be both. Either way it is still proof. You can do it too. Just look at the "views", then enter a thread/post, go back and look at the "views" again.

Proof that "views" are not unique.

Proof that continual claims that multiple members read a post and that a person must be RIGHT because 6 different members read it and didn't reply.

The fact that this is even debated is what I find most interesting. Just accept the facts of how the forum works and move on. Spin won't change facts. If some members want to insult other members over an event that: Never. Happened. that's their issue, but it won't change facts.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 11:06:33

This is not a criticism of this useful site, which is free, but the YaBB seems pretty old (I think that's what's used here)

I believe so as well and I agree that it should not be a criticism of the site. It does it's job just fine.

"That being said, the view counter is probably not the most sophisticated. People view pages multiple times from the same IP address, and some people used VPNs."

I've tried to explain that for years, showing many times that "views" do not mean different people read the post. I used to scan the pages more often to give my team more research time, but I toned it down when some members started literally getting angry and tossing insults just because they thought, incorrectly, that 5 or 6 different people read the post. It was actually just me.

In general though I think the site does it's job. I have found the search will time-out less if the search parameters are lower durations of time, like "1 year" vs "all posts".

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by J Mac on 03/11/23 at 12:45:32

Yes, shortening the search timeframe definitely works. However, some of the best info is "old".

I find it interesting that you have a research team. Does your team work on refutations on multiple sites?

I was the one who started the "crickets" discussion. Yes, it's tempting to think that if nobody responds to a post you make that it simply cannot be refuted, thus nobody bothers. I catch myself thinking that, but I know better. Some people will refute "The sky is blue" simply because they *cannot* exist day to day without being utterly contrarian. Think about Allen Colmes, the modern TV archetype for that behavior. He was like a pull-string 1960s doll spewing left-wing talking points. There was no nuance or thoughtfulness behind any of his rebuttals. It was just pure rapid-fire contranianism.

Sometimes people don't respond to a topic because they're tired of it or uninterested. Or, in some cases, if they're thoughtful/serious people they may know they don't have a leg to stand on. But, the argumentative types won't let the truth stand in the way of a snappy response. I think most members here are smart enough to know that the view counter is wrong and that their post not getting attention isn't really indicative of anything other than busy people.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/11/23 at 12:51:55

enough to know that the view counter is wrong and that their post not getting attention isn't really indicative of anything other than busy people.

When it's Not simply
They Can't put an argument together that will stand up to scrutiny.
Don't be giving too much credit to the people here. Ignoring the obvious and refusing to accept the inarguable is stuff you have been watching happen.
Seriously, Ford remained a credible witness even After she was destroyed by her best friend, because she was against Kavanaugh.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by J Mac on 03/11/23 at 14:25:36

I've seen what you speak of. I've been a witness to it my whole life. Ad hominem attacks are convenient when you don't care to do any work to bolster your argument. I assure you, I understand that silence can speak loudly sometimes.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 14:29:06

"I find it interesting that you have a research team. Does your team work on refutations on multiple sites?"

Yeah they work on pretty much whatever. I've found that I make a lot more money, and get a lot more done when I have accurate information. When it comes to a some of the work I've done, inaccurate assessments mean people die. Opinions mean nothing when you are in that boat. For the most part it's beneficial to me to have information checked before I destroy my credibility blindly repeating anything I see online.

"Yes, it's tempting to think that if nobody responds to a post you make that it simply cannot be refuted, thus nobody bothers. I catch myself thinking that, but I know better."

Agreed. Especially since anyone here can test the "views" themselves and prove they are not unique, but if they actually acknowledge that they can't go around calling other members jerks for not replying.

"I think most members here are smart enough to know that the view counter is wrong and that their post not getting attention isn't really indicative of anything other than busy people."

Most sure, but some, no way. The only acceptable outcome is they are right and everyone else within a few hours read the post, they wouldn't be sleeping at 3AM, and are so intellectually inept they can't respond. No way reading a post twice would mean 2 views... impossible.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 14:37:31

"Ignoring the obvious and refusing to accept the inarguable is stuff you have been watching happen."

And how many times have you gotten upset because people "read" your post and didn't reply?

Post "views" do not reflect how many people read your post. This is just a fact.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/11/23 at 15:29:48

And you don't see the difference..
Shawking.
You can say what you want. I honestly don't care.
You ATTRIBUTE emotion to me,with no clue. You are an arrogant guy.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 16:29:14

"And you don't see the difference..
Shawking.
You can say what you want. I honestly don't care."

Then stop addressing my posts.

"You ATTRIBUTE emotion to me,with no clue. You are an arrogant guy."

I attribute it based off your comments, like calling people gutless, jakkasses for not answering your questions, inaccurately using the "views" to justify your treatment of other people.

Or like recently:

"Kiss it,dude,,I don't care what you say any more."

That sounds to me, like you are upset. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. If you don't care what I say, why do you keep addressing it?

The "views" are not individual members reading your post, I don't know why you won't acknowledge this, but it doesn't matter, the information still is useful.

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by J Mac on 03/11/23 at 17:26:50

How do you make money fiddling around on this site?

4565676F7265000 wrote:

Title: Re: Post views.
Post by Eegore on 03/11/23 at 19:06:24

"How do you make money fiddling around on this site?"

I don't mean specific to this site, I just mean in general. This is an easy zero impact way of teaching any new staff, or groups we provide training for, how to use specific systems and methods. Also this forum does provide a good reference point for avoiding echo chambers.