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Message started by bobert_FSO on 12/25/22 at 07:59:05

Title: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by bobert_FSO on 12/25/22 at 07:59:05

Here's an interesting subject from Youtuber Uncle Tony's Garage. Although he still recommends a high-zinc oil for flat-tappet engines, he thinks it may not be a requirement beyond original engine break-in. I imagine this video will bring on a discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHCbrmQsySk

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/22 at 17:12:23

Saw that A week or so ago. Interesting, but I'm not able to feel comfortable that the bike will be okay with oil that doesn't provide all the Right vitamins

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by Dave on 12/27/22 at 04:26:11

I believe the Savage is a bit unique and needs more ZDDP protection than most engines......especially the 2004 and earlier engines with the one piece rockers. Each rocker is lifting 2 valves - there is a lot of pressure on the rocker pad.

Youzguys has proven that the early rockers will last a long time if you use good oil - he is working on 250,000 miles on his bike. Many others have proven that the rockers fail quickly with the wrong oil.....I have replaced rockers and cam in an engine with only 3,800 miles.

The 2005 and later bikes have a rocker with a hardened pad brazed onto the wearing surface. I have neve seen one of these rockers fail in person or on this forum. These rockers may be able to use an oil with a lower ZDDP level.

Personally - I believe the motor oil with 1,000 - 1,200 ppm of ZDDP is required in the Savage engine. The lower ZDDP levels are a mandate for modern fuel injected engines with Catalytic Converters and oxygen sensors - the government believes you need to use half as much ZDDP to prevent fouling those pieces. We should be using an oil formulation that was around in 1986 when the Savage started production - not one formulated for modern engines with roller rockers.

I use Rotella T in everything I own (except my wife's car that requires 5W-20 oil). My Pontiac Vibe has 200,000 miles on it and still has the original oxygen sensors and Catalytic converter.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by och on 12/28/22 at 19:06:05

How about leaded fuel, I heard it has great lubricating properties.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by Dave on 12/29/22 at 04:47:52

28242F470 wrote:

How about leaded fuel, I heard it has great lubricating properties.

Leaded fuel did provide a soft coating on the valves and seats and it provided a cushion for the closing valve. Many early engines had problems with valve seats getting damaged when leaded fuel disappeared as the seats needed the lead.

Modern engines really don't benefit from lead as the valves and seats are made to last without lead. You can't use lead in any engine with a catalytic converter or oxygen sensor as the lead will damage them. Lead is also very corrosive to exhaust pipes and mufflers......exhaust systems last much longer now that lead is gone.

The amount of ZDDP in the oil has gone from the 1,200 ppm down to 600 ppm as a result of the EPA requirements - they are concerned about the longevity of the Oxygen sensors and catalytic converter. As I stated in the previous post I have used Rotella T in my Pontiac for years, and the car currently has 200,000 miles on it and runs great with the original oxygen sensers and converter, The engine does not burn any oil - perhaps as engines get worn and start consuming oil the chances of fouling the sensors and converters is more of a problem.

I am using Rotella T in my motorcycles with fuel injection/oxygen sensors/catalytic convertor - I don't anticipate any problems. The forums for those motorcycles have members with high mileage on those bikes and they use Rotella exclusively - it is affordable, available and excellent at preventing wear.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by Ruttly on 12/29/22 at 08:55:22

Yeah , what Dave said !

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/22 at 09:38:16

amount of ZDDP in the oil has gone from the 1,200 ppm down to 600 ppm as a result of the EPA requirements - they are concerned about the longevity of the Oxygen sensors and catalytic converter

While they continue to put corn juice in the gas with zero concern for the damage it causes.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by och on 12/29/22 at 16:02:19

043F3225343823253E363B24570 wrote:

[quote author=28242F470 link=1671983945/0#3 date=1672283165]How about leaded fuel, I heard it has great lubricating properties.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by Dave on 12/29/22 at 16:29:26

I am not very knowledgeable about diesels.

We owned a 1999 VW Jetta diesel and a Ford 3000 Diesel tractor that wouldn't start at temperatures below 40. Now I have a New Holland TC33D compact tractor that has glow plugs and starts easily. That is the limit to my experience in diesel ownership.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by och on 12/30/22 at 17:50:34

I think for modern engines low zinc oil is the last concern. They are so choked with emissions and engineering compromises to marginally increase efficiency, they can never last as long as some of the well built engines from the 90ies and early 2000s.

For older engines, I would stick with high zinc oil if its possible to find, if thats what they were designed for.

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/22 at 23:46:20

The extremely high mileage bikes on this forum are lubricated with Rotella, if I'm remembering right. Would they have made those miles on some other oil? Whoknowzz?

Title: Re: Zinc-rich oil requirement??
Post by bobert_FSO on 12/31/22 at 06:02:42

Yes, who knows if a low-zink oil would work, but who wants to risk their engine to find out when there is an oil (Rotella) that meets the requirements and certifications for engines of this vintage?