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Message started by WebsterMark on 11/08/22 at 10:13:01

Title: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by WebsterMark on 11/08/22 at 10:13:01

…….destroy Democracy. You think it would take longer.

Steve Schmidt will easily win the Senate seat from Missouri as a Republican replacing a former Republican. There was talk that this seat was in jeopardy but that was nonsense, it never was.

And my representative in the house will remain the same.

We had a constitutional amendment to legalize recreational marijuana which I voted against. I’m strongly against that.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/08/22 at 10:30:08

Why are you strongly against recreational marijuana?

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by WebsterMark on 11/08/22 at 13:07:38

Despite the fact my company makes a tremendous amount of money in that industry which positively impacts my paycheck, I know people will absolutely die in automobile accidents when hit by stoners. That’s an absolute fact. How many and where of course is impossible, but I know it will happen. We had a terrible accident in Missouri last year when a stoned driver crossed the median and killed two teenage girls on their way to a volleyball tournament.

There’s absolutely no reason to have recreational marijuana.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/08/22 at 13:35:06

I agree vehicular homicide will rise.

In CO we have had recreational marijuana for a decade now. There is a calculable and measurable rise but, to me, it is considerably lower than I thought it would be.

Certain cities like Colorado Springs never approved it, while others allowed the State maximum dispensary license. Colorado Springs does not have a lower percentage vehicular homicide/accident etc. percentage since recreational marijuana started. There are variables like having the surrounding counties providing it, and the Army/Air Force bases.

The big argument is always DUI and alcohol impacts. While it is true way more people die from alcohol related crimes percentage wise (drunk men beat their wives to death more than stoned men for instance, and alcohol is dispensed and consumed in bars where marijuana is purchase only) is it necessary to add another negative influence to the mix? I'm not sure the alcohol is worse than marijuana is the best argument to make.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/08/22 at 14:41:07

'... no reason to
have recreational marijuana ...'

Today, to get MJ at a legal dispensary, (in a legal state/area) You must give your ID/DL/Etc. to that dispensary, who keeps that information.

You buy a gun, you fill out a 4473, on it, (a reason for DENYING ownership of a gun) it asks, "Are you a UN-Lawful user of Marijuana ..."

Guess what, when the BATFE and the dispensary's start talking to each other. If you bought a gun, and MJ, you WILL be arrested.

Because, it is ILLEGAL, in the Fed's eyes. And Guns are Fed.

In 2016, the feds even ADDED to the 4473,
including adding a warning statement that the use of marijuana is illegal under federal law, regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where the transferee/buyer resides.

And that boys and girls, is why the Fed Gov allows any State/Place to sell MJ.
It is simply leading to the, GREAT BIG, 'backdoor', Gun Confiscation.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/09/22 at 05:19:18

The problem with "GREAT BIG, 'backdoor', Gun Confiscation." is that it is logistically implausible. Also Form 4473 is not required for all private sales/trades of firearms in the nation.

People sit around all day longing saying how gun-control laws won't protect the public because people won't give up their guns, there are millions in circulation etc. but for some reason once they become entirely illegal all the sudden guns get taken away.

Every State that legalizes MJ makes it harder for the Feds to go kick in doors blowtorching safes and taking guns away. Arresting millions of marihuana using gun owners would take way too much time and energy to ever be a feasible way of forcibly taking guns from the populace.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/09/22 at 06:42:06

725250584552370 wrote:

The problem with "GREAT BIG, 'backdoor', Gun Confiscation." is that it is logistically implausible not to mention 4473 only applies to authorized/licensed gun sellers that sell a firearm to a buyer that declare using marijuana. I as a private citizen am not obligated to use 4473.

I'm sure plenty of people who bought guns in states that are now MJ friendly don't even know that the rules on guns are affected by smoking weed. Some people may have moved and taken the gun they bought ten years ago with them.
Would that matter? IDK how it works. Does the government know about that gun purchase ten years ago? IDK. I've heard they aren't Supposed to keep the sales records after a certain time, but I'm not sure how it works.

People sit around all day longing saying how gun-control laws won't protect the public because people won't give up their guns, there are millions in circulation etc. but for some reason once they become entirely illegal all the sudden guns get taken away.

Naah, they just turn off your bank account until you turn them in. Or, park your truck.

Every State that legalizes MJ makes it harder for the Feds to go kick in doors blowtorching safes and taking guns away. Arresting millions of marihuana using gun owners would take way too much time and energy to ever be a feasible way of forcibly taking guns from the populace.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/09/22 at 09:52:05

5C7C7E766B7C190 wrote:

"... Form 4473 is not required for all private sales/trades of firearms in the nation...

Incorrect.

California, Maryland, Oregon, Rhode Island
BAN ALL Private firearm transfers/sales.

Hawaii, Iowa, Michigan, North Carolina, Nebraska, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Illinois, New York,
BAN Private transfer/sales of handguns.

5C7C7E766B7C190 wrote:

"...Arresting millions of marihuana using gun owners would take way too much time and energy to ever be a feasible way of forcibly taking guns from the populace.

Incorrect.

When you take a parking ticket, misdemeanor, custody/abuse/ect. to court.
You will SUDDENLY be charged with a Felony.
Simply because, (when the Fed & States talk to each other), it is found out you have purchased a Gun, AND MJ.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/09/22 at 10:18:05

"... Does the government know about that gun purchase ten years ago? ..."

YEP !!!!!

"...IDK. I've heard they aren't Supposed to keep the sales records after a certain time, but I'm not sure how it works...."

Used to be, when it was paper only, (4473), the form was filled out, kept with the dealer for 20 years, then years 21 could be destroyed.

If a FFL dealer closed business less than 20 years, the 4473's were sent to the BATFE, and they were to keep them, then destroy them after they were 20 years old.

Today, many 4473's are done electronically.
They are KEPT.
The ones on paper, are still kept on paper in the store for 20 years.
HOWEVER, the 'new' background check, (started 1998) ,which has to be called in on EVERY firearm, (NICS). Is KEPT by the FBI. They don't have the info of the 'particular' firearm, (that will be added when the BAFTE gets the 4473), the FBI just knows YOU have a GUN.

And of course, Today, if you are under 21, the background check, '... could last 2 weeks...' !

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/09/22 at 10:29:15

Incorrect.

California, Maryland, Oregon, Rhode Island
BAN ALL Private firearm transfers/sales.

Hawaii, Iowa, Michigan, North Carolina, Nebraska, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Illinois, New York,
BAN Private transfer/sales of handguns.

Yep. And other locations like Texas? I specifically said all firearm sales in the Nation. When all 50 States require a form 4473 for all sales then every location and human in the Nation would require a form 4473.

A decade ago we heard in CO how everyone with guns were going to lose them through this marijuana project. The Feds were going to let it start then rush in and start throwing people in prison or make them surrender weapons etc. Still waiting for that water to boil. It's strategically unfeasible to use this method, and the more places that do it, the more resources are needed to enforce it.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/09/22 at 10:49:40

First we all know how you love to SPIN and DEFLECT !
Facts are Facts.
SPIN and DEFLECT all you want.

735351594453360 wrote:

"... A decade ago we heard in CO how everyone with guns were going to lose them through this marijuana project. ..."

When the FBI and the States talk to each other and compare/merge databases, it WILL happen.

That is not yet.
I am fingerprinted in a Minn County, in the State, and by FBI. Now by a AZ Corp.

And NONE, will talk to each other !!!!

Yet !

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/09/22 at 12:43:42

Well this is a pretty big concern as long as we ignore the obvious. This requires you own a firearm and use marijuana.

I for one have nothing to worry about so they will have to come up with some other reason to charge me with a felony when I go pay a parking ticket I also do not have.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/09/22 at 13:07:54

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/09/22 at 13:27:26

7D5D5F574A5D380 wrote:

"... big concern ..."

Yes, the temp of the water, S L O W L Y , rising.
IS, 'a serious concern', !

Well unless, (as JOG said) you are not
"... concerned about someone Else suffering injustice ..."

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/09/22 at 14:06:51

Why would anyone think that as long as someone is not going to be in the crosshairs there is no reason for them to care? I never worried about MY voice being censored on Twitter, because I'm not interested in using the platform. And I'm just certain that I have had criticism aimed at me for Not being concerned about someone Else suffering injustice, and I was called selfish. Yeah, the accuser was wrong.
Am I supposed to think you don't care about a situation because it doesn't apply Directly to you? We all live in America.. When America becomes less free,, well, I'm sure everyone can figure where that is going.

I think there is a difference between having a requirement someone take a Federally illegal drug to be prosecuted and someone using Twitter and NOT being prosecuted. Lets over look the obvious, people who do not use marijuana and own guns have nothing to worry about in this one of many gun control schemes that we are still waiting to happen.

If this were really happening and enforceable in some measurable capacity I might be onboard with some concern. The point is this big gun grab requires victims use marijuana. So there you go, the solution is in your hands.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/09/22 at 14:08:33

Yes, the temp of the water, S L O W L Y , rising.
IS, 'a serious concern', !

Yep along with all 50 other gun control schemes that we have been waiting to boil. If it keep increasing at this pace we might reach the speed of global warming predictions that never come true.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/09/22 at 14:43:25

09292B233E294C0 wrote:

" Yep along with all 50 other gun control schemes that we have been waiting to boil. ...".

So you believe their are only 50 Gun Control Schemes over the last 245 years ?

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Serowbot on 11/09/22 at 15:21:31

To Mn, everything looks like gun control.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail... ;D

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/09/22 at 19:19:27

So you believe their are only 50 Gun Control Schemes over the last 245 years ?

I do not. I don't know the number but I know how many have taken all of our guns away.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by WebsterMark on 11/10/22 at 05:26:12

It’s very doubtful any serious Federal law will be a challenge to gun ownership anytime soon. I’ve said before Trump deserves a small bust carved on Mt Rushmore for a few great moves he made, and in this case, his Supreme Court picks. McConnell too for keeping Garland off.

I know Democrats are acting like they won, but they’re going to lose the house, they lost several seats in NY, Florida is solidly red, border districts in Texas switched to red and Lake still has an above 50/50 chance of winning Arizona. My Governor in Missouri is not going anywhere either. Point is, local control still matters. The vast majority of gun crimes happen in large urban areas, not in the sticks which means, like a lot of other things, what’s good for the goose isn’t always good for the gander.

I’m not too worried about gun laws right now. There’s a lot more to worry about. Frankly, everyone I know who would stand up, if the true meaning behind the 2nd Amendment ever occurred, is already prepared.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by MnSpring on 11/10/22 at 06:59:37

“…doubtful any serious Federal law will be a challenge to gun ownership anytime soon….”

True, and it is because of the stalwart efforts of Patriots.

If Citizens believed people saying, (to the like) “…no one wants to remove your guns, simply because not ALL your guns have been removed…”
If Citizens believed people saying, (to the like), “…if ‘we’ take this model of gun, you will be safe…”
If Citizens believed people saying, (to the like), “…gun possession requirements are not good enough…”
If Citizens believed people saying, (to the like), “…no one needs a gun…”
If Citizens believed people saying, (to the like), “…You can't have a gun, but I can…”

It would be a completely different story.

That is why Patriots, need to keep reminding the people that want to turn this, Free Democratic Republic, into a Socialist, Dictator, Shitt hole.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by zevenenergie on 11/10/22 at 07:54:35

162423323524330C20332A410 wrote:

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by zevenenergie on 11/10/22 at 07:56:27

554A594A414A414A5D48464A2F0 wrote:

[quote author=162423323524330C20332A410 link=1667931181/0#0 date=1667931181]…….destroy Democracy. You think it would take longer.

Steve Schmidt will easily win the Senate seat from Missouri as a Republican replacing a former Republican. There was talk that this seat was in jeopardy but that was nonsense, it never was.

And my representative in the house will remain the same.

We had a constitutional amendment to legalize recreational marijuana which I voted against. I’m strongly against that.

I understand that someone can be fiercely against drugs. But why are you not against the recreational use of alcohol?

I've seen so many people completely destroyed by alcohol. It is many times more addictive than cannabis and some other drugs.
In business too, alcohol is one of the biggest problems in the workplace.

I once worked in a company where people were strapped around the anvil on Monday mornings because they were still drunk from the night before. And that they were only able to strike again after a good drink. On Friday afternoon, most of theaccidents here happen because of a farewell drink at work.

I don't want to justify cannabis, but I see that it has some good sides, where alcohol only has bad sides.

So here again my question, why are you not against recreational use of alcohol?
[/quote]

http://https://i.imgur.com/qiuvtJDm.jpg http://https://i.imgur.com/sjILRAFm.jpg

http://https://i.imgur.com/4QHuihFm.jpg

http://https://i.imgur.com/8s6mqoTm.jpg

It's pure poison. You can literally drink yourself to death.
It makes you fat and you get diabetes. You are going to hit your wife. And if you drink it, you don't solve your problems. There is a good chance that you will buy a savage and join a forum where you will proclaim all kinds of extremely conservative ideas.
And preserve ideas that we'd better get rid of. ;-)

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by WebsterMark on 11/10/22 at 08:28:59

71526F4C4E55525B3C0 wrote:

“…doubtful any serious Federal law will be a challenge to gun ownership anytime soon….”

True, and it is because of the stalwart efforts of Patriots.

.

And you’re probably right about that.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by WebsterMark on 11/10/22 at 08:31:14

46594A59525952594E5B55593C0 wrote:

I understand that someone can be fiercely against drugs. But why are you not against the recreational use of alcohol?

I've seen so many people completely destroyed by alcohol. It is many times more addictive than cannabis and some other drugs.
In business too, alcohol is one of the biggest problems in the workplace.

I once worked in a company where people were strapped around the anvil on Monday mornings because they were still drunk from the night before. And that they were only able to strike again after a good drink. On Friday afternoon, most of theaccidents here happen because of a farewell drink at work.

I don't want to justify cannabis, but I see that it has good sides where alcohol only has bad sides.

So here again my question, why are you not against recreational use of alcohol?
[/quote]

Using that logic, let’s legalize and collect taxes on recreational fentanyl.

I’m not against outlying recreational use of alcohol because I’m, metaphorically speaking anyway, a dinosaur.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Serowbot on 11/10/22 at 08:35:25

I used to "partake" quite a lot when I was younger,... but I tried some medicinal grade pot about year ago... and that stuff is powerful!
I definitely wouldn't drive under the influence.

That said,... I do believe in legalization. No worse than alcohol... and as a practical matter, paying $60,000 a year to jail these people is crazy.
PS,FWIW... for profit prisons are the biggest anti-legalization lobby.
Money rules....

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/10/22 at 08:45:13

for profit prisons are the biggest anti-legalization lobby

Says a lot, dunnitt?

Of Course it does make sense. If you're gonna Lease an Apartment to someone, would you rather have a pot head or a burglar, etc, any other criminal type..
It might be a good topic for a whole thread, but the For profit prisons just don't feel right to me. Especially when they agree to build in a state IF the state will sign a contract agreeing to keep them filled up to a certain percentage. How can they do that?
IDK where or when I saw that, maybe it's bogus,

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/10/22 at 08:53:17

Using that logic, let’s legalize and collect taxes on recreational fentanyl.

Marijuana has considerably more measured medicinal benefits than fentanyl but without the extremely deadly side effects. If a gram of fentanyl wouldn't kill multiple people maybe it would be reasonable to make recreational vs prescription.

I don't think there is a good answer when it comes to the societal and ethical aspects of marijuana vs alcohol. If you take somebody that has never used either and compare impact per volume consumed, marijauna is much much safer than alcohol.

From a medical impact standpoint alcohol does more extensive damage to the average human.

So the only leverage alcohol has is the economic impact. Alcohol is an economy and it directly, positively, impacts many people from career-entry jobs like being a server/bartender to running a distillery and having global distribution.

Economically alcohol has a leg to stand on, but in regards to everything else it's just an issue of saying we are ok with the risks of harm if it is from alcohol, but not marijuana.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/10/22 at 08:57:24

The Stop Alcohol extremists won,once. It didn't work out either.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Eegore on 11/10/22 at 08:58:46

Especially when they agree to build in a state IF the state will sign a contract agreeing to keep them filled up to a certain percentage. How can they do that?

By moving State held prisoners into Private prisons. Not by imprisoning more people by means of bogus charges. I've run riot and stab-n-jab simulations for State prisons for years and have heard about this percentage requirement stuff. It's cheaper to pay private than State, so the middle ground isn't to prosecute more citizens which is also more cost, its instead to funnel inmates to a more cost-effective option for the State while assuring jobs will be available for Private.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by Serowbot on 11/10/22 at 09:12:10

The biggest problem with legal MJ is that there isn't currently a way to test if someone's under the influence.
I'm sure science will work that out now that there is a demand for testing.
They can tell if it's in your system but not if you are currently under the influence.
Fines for DUI should be hefty.

I've even thought about growing some in my back yard for personal use... hopefully much weaker than the modern medicinal stuff...
I'm such a lightweight in my old age. ;D
It grows like weeds... :P

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/10/22 at 12:49:00

Agreed, on every point. If beer was as strong as whisky I wouldn't be able to enjoy sitting down and having a couple. I don't Want to become a piece of the couch because I took two hits. It's illegal in Texas, so I don't get it, but if it was legal and readily available, IDK how I would use it. Back when ten bucks got enough to last a week, smoking a coupla joints a day, I was a roughneck and would smoke one when I got to work. It was great, catch a buzz, dig a ditch, clean stuff, I stayed Busy. And when I finally became a derrick man, when we were tripping pipe to change the drill bit, I'd take one up there, about 85 feet up, and do the job. The stuff I've had in the last few years was either just way too stout,even one hit,or I've become a serious lightweight.
Sitting around a campfire, having some beer, smoking a little, and not winding up IN the fire,,, yeah..

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by zevenenergie on 11/10/22 at 14:00:57

When I was younger I smoked it, but it didn't do anything. I had friends who were real stoners and they let me inhale 5 grams of weed once and nothing happened.

I could eat 2 whole hash cakes and watch everyone go under and I stayed as sober as a farmer at 5am on a Wednesday morning.

In the end I managed to get quite stoned, after 3 pills of ecstasy, quite a lot of muchrooms and some stuff a hippy gave me.
I had the time of my life, but others thought otherwise. I got arested.

I was released because all I could do was laugh at everything.
In the following weeks, all you had to do was point at something and I would cringe with laughter.It was fun but I was happy it was over.
So I thought, let's not do that again.

When I was about 40 years old, I did some Ayuaska rituals and that were profound experiences. I don't understand why it's banned.

Title: Re: Only took me 30 minutes to …..
Post by WebsterMark on 11/10/22 at 18:50:31

Using that logic, let’s legalize and collect taxes on recreational fentanyl.

Marijuana has considerably more measured medicinal benefits than fentanyl but without the extremely deadly side effects. If a gram of fentanyl wouldn't kill multiple people maybe it would be reasonable to make recreational vs prescription.

Dude, that wasn’t meant to be taken literally….