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Message started by Utah on 11/03/22 at 20:07:10

Title: More Wiring Help
Post by Utah on 11/03/22 at 20:07:10

Just wanting to check with some of you guys on here and make sure i had the charging system wired correctly as well...Again any help is very much appreciated...attached is the wiring diagram i have...thanks you guys!!

Title: Re: More Wiring Help
Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/22 at 20:22:51

Well, that's all there is to it.

Title: Re: More Wiring Help
Post by Utah on 11/04/22 at 01:12:43

...thank you so much for having a look...i think having the "no spark" problem and not being able to figure it out has got me doubting everything...again i appreciate you taking a look at it!

Title: Fuse Box Conversion?
Post by Utah on 11/05/22 at 13:03:16

Has anyone done a successful fuse box conversion? If so would you mind sharing your wiring diagram. I have a 2000 Savage that i am trying to convert to a small fuse box wiring but am having problems now getting it to fire off. It was running before the conversion so i dont believe i have any bad part(i also bench tested everything that i could). I have another post on here asking for wiring help that has my wiring diagram attached. Any help would be sooooo greatly appreciated,i am pulling my hair out trying to figure this one out. Thank you for your time[ch128079][ch127995][ch129310][ch127995][ch128079][ch127995]

Title: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/03/22 at 20:03:32

PLEASE HELP!!!! I am on the tail end of rewiring and simplifying(pr so i thought)my bike...I had reached what i thought was the end of the project but i have no spark...I bench tested the pickup coil and ignition coil...i have a spare cdi that i tried as well and still nothing...i am assuming i have wired something wrong as the bike was running before...i am definitely new to motorcycle mechanics...i have attached my wiring diagram can anyone help me sort this out? I also have a question...is there a positive and negative side to the ignition coil(i looked for markings but saw none)...any help offered would be greatly appreciated

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/22 at 20:39:32

IDK if the coil polarity matters since I've only done stock wiring.

but you must have a good ground connection to get spark.
I assume you could touch the spark plug to the frame of the coil to test for spark.

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/04/22 at 01:10:28

yes sir I tried that exact thing but could not get any spark at all...i even tried holding a ground wire attached directly to the battery to the plug threads and still nothing...any opinion on the wiring diagram for the ignition,does it seem correct to you? I cant thank you enough for your reply and help!

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by verslagen1 on 11/04/22 at 06:43:54

you seem to have enough connections, but you have to assume a lot to conclude it's correct.

and yet it doesn't work means you get a failing grade for your work. :-?

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/22 at 09:09:00

So, how will you move forward?
Test light or voltmeter ,checking power to the coil?
I'm not any kind of ignition guy,but something is supposed to switch on and off to create the spark.

does make a difference. Reversing the polarity on the primary side changes whether the spark will jump from the shell electrode to the center post tip or from the center post tip to the shell electrode. It is always preferred to have the spark jump from the hotter electrode to the colder hence center to shell

You don't want bakkerds electrons

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/05/22 at 05:18:25

Thank you Justin...i did pull the ignition coil off the bike and upon closer examination did find that one of the terminals was slightly smaller than the other...and if u look real hard(i got a magnifying glass)at the base of where the terminals are you can see a + and a - mark in the plastic...i did have them wired correctly as well...the black wire with yellow stripe from the cdi supplies the ground and orange with white stripe supplies the positive(it has a 12v feed wire attached...im not sure why but the picture i attached doesnt show the full wiring diagram unless you click on the link...you were talking about something should tell it when to spark,the pickup coil(i think) is what is supposed to do that(but u cant see it in the picture unless u click on it)...again thank you so much for taking time to try and help me out it is very much appreciated! As far as moving forward,i have no clue,i am completely lost at this point...I am hoping someone maybe has done the fuse box conversion and has a working diagram or maybe can point out something i have wired incorrectly...Thanks again for any help you can offer and for your time!

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by SpamyToo on 11/06/22 at 15:05:40

Your drawing is way simplified which is nice, but it might be missing some vital connections.

I remember I had some issues redoing mine because of permissives involved with the run switch that runs in series with the side stand relay. I think that connection has to be made to run, not severed.

You might want to check all the permissives closely on the drawing and ensure you have whats needed for the ignition to allow it to run.

http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/2007-2009_Wiring_Diagram.jpg

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/06/22 at 16:20:07

Hey SpamyToo...i'm sorry but i'm not sure what you mean by permissives since you said something about the sidestand though i think what youre talking about is like the side stand safety switch and neutral safety switch etc etc...before i did this rewire i had already removed an bypassed all the safety switches(i didnt know they were called permissives)...and this diagram doesnt include the lights or the brake light,horn etc...all that seems to be working correctly...since its just and ignition problem that system is all i included...i think on another post i did include the charging system but it was a separate drawing altogether...there is nothing that i can tell that would be prohibiting fire since the components in the diagram are all the components...no outside switches or per-missives(thank you for giving them a name for me)are in the system at all...i even removed the ignition key the whole thing is set up with a knife switch to kill power to the entire bike...thank you so much for your time and knowledge it is very much appreciated

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/07/22 at 17:02:02

It might be a good idea to go back and be absolutely certain your work is holding up. If you accidentally hit something and it has a safety interlock working instead of bypassed, meh,, you get the picture..
It was starting and running and you wanted to streamline the wiring harness, correct?
If that is true, then why question all the stuff that was working? If it's not starting I'd be going back to what you eliminated and look at the places you put jumpers to bypass the interlocks. It's been years since I looked at, or had the book. I don't remember how to bypass the sidestand switch. Seems like there are diodes in the area, but I can't imagine why.
Just think about what you got rid of and study the wiring diagram.
When you bypassed everything and it started and ran, you know where you bypassed the safety switches. When you went deeper into the wiring harness,and then bypassed them, were there any connections that led off somewhere else that you should have left in the circuit?
Pardon my rambling, I'm clutching at straws.
It might help if you could give us a rundown on how you got to where you are.
Or, if you already have and it's in another place, point me to it.
The point I'm clumsily trying to make is
If the coil and cdi and the signal generator on the flywheel were all working and you went into the wiring harness, unless you blew the CEO up with the battery, nothing changed. You didn't leave the battery hooked up while you did all that, did you? Key on?

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/07/22 at 21:43:47

Hey Justin,i really appreciate all your help...a little backstory...the bike was running fine...had just put a new mikuni carb on and sounded great... it had been leaking oil from around the cylinder head and that little rubber plug that they thought was actually going to stop oil leaking(lol)...well i was out riding and to be honest i am not sure what happened but it blew oil all over me and the bike...at this point i had already removed all of the safety switches and the only kill switch in the system at all was the key switch itself...so i went ahead and did the cylinder head and bought the upgraded rubber plug...stabbed it all back together and as soon as i hooked the battery up it tried to crank without the switch being on...it was a bad starter relay...it had soaked with oil so i decided at this point why not go ahead and do the fuse box conversion i had been wanting to do...I basically stripped all and i mean all of the wiring out of the bike at this point alll 5000 miles of it(lol)...i had found a wiring diagram on here and followed it but there were a few things i was unclear on...mainly the wiring for the cdi...now of course when i wired it all now i am getting no spark...my wiring diagram doesnt show the push button for the starter or the lights,didnt see a real need to include those...if you look there is only one switch in the whole diagram that kills and connects power to the whole bike and all its systems so all the safetys and diodes and whatnot are no longer and issue...i have seen a couple of diagrams since then and they seem to pretty much be the same as mine...i am truly at a loss...one thought i had was if the timing were far enough out could it cause a no spark? Though i was extremely careful and have checked the timing since i put the bike back together and it lines up tdc on the compression according to the timing mark. i have also wondered if the other cdi i had was bad??? Maybe if the original was ruined by oil and then my spare was bad? i ordered it off ebay so cant be 100% that it worked even though it looked to be new old stock...So here i sit pulling my hair out,lol...

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/08/22 at 03:18:49

It's just after five, I'm not awake, just to be clear
The bike was Not starting and running when you decided to take the opportunity to modify stuff.
Is that correct?

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by SpamyToo on 11/08/22 at 06:48:57

Permissives is just a generic term in logic circuits for parts of the cercuit that need to be made in order for it to run or continue to the next step.

Such as the side stand. If it doesnt see that circuit made it wont allow it to progress to the next step of sending power to the starter circuit.

I gutted my wiring and redid it, and a few others here did too. Stupidly I put my drawings in a very safe place when I was done. So safe I cant seem to find it again. Ill keep looking.

I just remember that what should have been a fairly simple start/stop (run) switch turned out to be a bit more complicated.

I had messed with a few different remote key ideas. One was just an rfid, another was an active rfid and if you were within feet of the bike you could start it. I ended up getting them to work, but the system ended up draining the tiny battery I use quicker than my infrequent driving would charge the battery.

Anyways, what seems like it should work, sometimes under closer examination and testing doesnt. Keep digging youll find the problem, then let us know.

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/08/22 at 07:02:08

Hey Justin,hope it wasnt me that woke you...I dont sleep real good at night so i dont really think about when i reply...if so i apologize...technically it was not running but i believed at the time it was only the starter solenoid...so i went ahead and ordered one and while i was waiting for it i went ahead and started the rewire...it was running and driving before the oil incident...when the oil shorted the starter relay is when i decided to go ahead and fix the cylinder head leak and do the rewire...my belief at the time was that the only bad part i had was the starter relay...in hindsight i should have checked to see if i had spark before the rewire just to make sure...or maybe should have traced each wire back to its source and drawn a diagram from it instead of just using a wiring diagram...maybe...idk...like i said im doubting everything i did now...while i am very new to motorcycle mechanics i was a parts installer/mechanic for about 10 years several years ago...that inly to say im not completely ignorant of mechanics(not saying you said or implied anything to the contrary,just info) but alot of the workings of this bike are most definitely a mystery to me...i did find a thread on here where a guy took his working cdi and used an ohms meter and measured all the resistance and made a chart showing what each was...ill attach the picture and show you...idk if this will actually test the functionality of it but in one way of thinking about it its capacitors and diodes inside the cdi so resistance would be important...i am completely open to any ideas help or anything,lol...my backup plan at this point is 50 cents worth of gas and a match lol....im posting the chart the guy had made on this forum,if i remembered his name i would give him all credit but i do not..im not taking credit for it or claiming ownership(hopefully that covers anyone getting mad at me for posting it...again i soooo appreciate any help and your time sooo much...i dont wish the need for it on you but if i can ever help you out please let me know!!

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/08/22 at 07:10:24

Thank you SpammyToo,my appreciation for the knowledge is completely sincere...I would love to see ur diagrams if you come across them and i will definitely post what i find is the problem and also what i end up with as a working diagram...I am definitely going to keep trying to figure it out...i have a nagging feeling its something so simple that i am looking over...you know the kind of thing when u find it youre so relieved but also want to kick yourself in the a** for not catching the first time...thank you so mich for your time and knowledge and advice... and please continue to follow my post and if you see anything that makes you say "hey wait" please let me know...i think i am going to dram a complete diagram and post so all the wires and switches and locations can be shown...maybe it will spark and idea in someones head as mine seems to be drawing blanks...

Title: Re: Simplified Wiring Help 2000 Savage
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/08/22 at 08:03:42

Hey Justin,hope it wasnt me that woke you...I dont sleep real good at night so i dont really think about when i reply...if so i apologize.

Of Course it's Your fault that I woke up. You don't have to type that hard, man. I mean, C'mon man.
Well, you're a braver man than I. I have a few strict rules when I'm working on stuff.
In no particular order ,absolutely nothing goes in the trash until it's done and running.
If something isn't running I don't do anything other than work to solve that problem. It's too easy to accidentally do something that will also make it not run.
And when they tell you to shut the motor off and rinse it off, No, if I get water in something that kills it I want to know where the water was going when it died.

When I was fixing copiers and talking to other techs I noticed how often they would be trying to figure it out and concoct some possible series of failures that would do that.
It's nearly always one problem.
I'm sure you know now how much ahead you would have been to get the solenoid and get it running before changing stuff.
What you do have is a motor that spins over and no spark, right?
If that is true, then I would pull the plug and secure it so it is grounded and should spark.
That way you can spin it over without wearing on your battery and starter so hard
And
If you do something that gets your spark back, but it just doesn't Hit,you won't know it has spark,
If the battery is needing charged it can spin over and not fire the plug.

Where can I go to see the wiring diagram?
I let my Suzuki service manual go when I sold my first one.
I'll never do That again.

Make it dependable, when you strap a plug to the motor, make it solid. If you have to wrap baling wire around the threads and run it under a bolt if you have to, but it's Not cool to be wondering. If you have a known good plug and solder to the threads, and there is no rule against taking the plug and plugging it into a mower and proving the plug is good.

Title: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Utah on 11/03/22 at 20:10:44

Just thought id share what the bike looks like as of now...

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Yazman on 11/04/22 at 18:40:46

Nice man! 8-)

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Ruttly on 11/04/22 at 23:49:42

Send me your email if you wants diagram(s)

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Utah on 11/06/22 at 16:24:52

Thanks Yazman...i have a lot of hours into getting the bike this far and have hit a wall with the wiring...

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Utah on 11/06/22 at 16:31:26

Thanks for your time Ruttly and your offer for help...I would very much appreciate any diagrams you have to send...I am really looking for a diagram to show a working fuse box conversion...thats what i am trying to wire up...i have the lights,horn and brake lights figured that was easy...i have the charging system wired and complete as well...ive done away with all the safety switches and have tried to wire the ignition to the beat of my knowledge but i am getting no spark...i bench tested the pickup coil and ignition coil from all i can find there is no bench test for the CDI but i did try a spare i had and it made no difference...i tried to pm and email you but it says i havent posted enough on here to do that yet...any help u could give would be appreciated...maybe take a look at my ignition system wiring and see if you see my problem or problems...thank you again!

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Yazman on 11/06/22 at 16:59:29

Have you used an ohm meter to check the resistance on the primary and secondary windings of the coils? I can send you a spare if you need one. 12v at the coil? Have you used an ohm meter on the orange and green wires that run to the flywheel so see if there is a short? I hate those stupid magic voodoo CDI boxes. Mine went bad, but 2 bad ones seems unlikely. Good ground to bare metal? What about your key switch? I don't see that in your diagram. Hope you get it straightened out man!

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Utah on 11/07/22 at 21:55:37

Hey Yazman,thank you so much for your help... I had looked up previously how to check the ignition coil and pickup coil...i tested with an ohms from positive to negative on the ignition coil and from positive to where the plug goes and negative to where the plug goes...i dont have a clymers manual but according to what i found on the internet it was all well within tolerance...i did later on check the pickup coil to make sure the resistance was correct and that it was pulsing when spinning the motor over i domt remember what the reading was but it was also within tolerance...i also thought of the ground and checked it as well and seem to be good everywhere...its a brand new main cable and i checked with my volt meter at all ground points and it seems to be all good...I am in agreement about the cdi box...i dont care for it very much...its hard to find a wiring schematic for it as well...and from what i can find so far there is no real way to bench test it...on my other post on here it tells the whole story of how and why i decided to go to the fuse box setup...i am now wondering if i have 2 bad cdi boxes(one was bought off of ebay)...the one in the bike got soaked in oil...its the craziest thing...i am doubting everything i did now lol...

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Ruttly on 11/08/22 at 10:54:19

Send me an email so I can send them.

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/08/22 at 11:35:12

A cdi should survive a soaking.

Title: Re: The Bike that needs wiring help!
Post by Utah on 11/08/22 at 11:57:42

Hey Justin,thats what i was thinking too that the cdi is pretty well sealed up but idk...i think ill make a post and ask anyone that has a 96- 2000 savage if they could do me a huge favor and let me know what readings they get at the plug for the cdi not the cdi itself to make sure i am getting the same thing...what do you think?

Title: Wiring help 2000 Savage
Post by Utah on 11/08/22 at 12:05:04

Hello all,I could still use some help with wiring on my 2000 Suzuki Savage fire/wiring issue...I was wondering if anyone out there that has like 96-2000 Savage LS650 could please tale the time and give me the reading they get at the CDI Plug not the CDI itself so i can check against a running bike to make sure i have all that i need coming to the plug...Any help would be soooo greatly appreciated!

Title: Re: Wiring help 2000 Savage
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/08/22 at 12:07:45

Please stop creating new threads for a continuation on a topic that is current and active. I don't see why you need 3 threads on a single issue.

Title: Re: More Wiring Help
Post by Utah on 11/08/22 at 12:39:23

Hi Gary,I do deeply apologize for not following protocol...it was not my intention to harsh your vibe by creating too many threads...One of the moderators seems to have combined all of my 3 threads for me(Thank You Verslagen!)so hopefully this will not upset you any longer...again i deeply apologize...i will try not to let that happen again..

Title: Re: More Wiring Help
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/08/22 at 13:56:33

As far as advice, it would appear as though you've created a real fuster cluck. If rewiring the lock-outs again doesn't do the trick, then I would purchase a replacement harness (for the same year or series) and start from scratch.

Title: Re: More Wiring Help
Post by verslagen1 on 11/08/22 at 18:03:27

If the starter spins, then it's not the safeties.

No spark? I would guess it's the TCI box.

Coils work by breaking the ground collapsing the field and discharging thru the sparky.

The TCI box is typically killed by leaving the ignition on all nite burning out the power transistor. So I suppose you could check to see if you had voltage at the negative connector of the coil. If you have voltage then the transistor was burned out.