SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo box /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1667057097 Message started by Yazman on 10/29/22 at 08:24:56

Title: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo box Post by Yazman on 10/29/22 at 08:24:56 I think it's beyond disgusting that Suzuki not only makes the magic spark box $800, but then goops up the unit with pebbles and garbage so that you can't look inside and see what makes it tick. I'm totally not kidding--I have a friend who is a genius electrical engineer, and if we can crowdsource some knowledge, I will produce these for sale. AT A REASONABLE COST! For a forum members, they will be AT cost. If anyone has any idea of how to ungoop the box, or has diagrams, or has a clean board they can send me, let's make this happen. Let's end this magic box monopoly and cabal Suzuki has!

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by verslagen1 on 10/29/22 at 09:37:45 I don't think that's to prevent you from seeing what's inside. Potting prevents the individual components from breaking off the board. I think the pebbles are just filler to minimize the amount of potting compound to expedite curing.  There are chemicals to remove the potting compound. Here's a previous thread... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293638302/15

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/29/22 at 10:49:44 I searched Getting epoxy out of potted circuits Lots of options. Knowing what it is encased in would be a good start. My thoughts on the problem, which I proposed some time back, and I'm NOT any kinda electronic whiz at all, so, grab your grain of salt. What does it do? It gets a signal and amplifies it. If you have smart friends and they have equipment, I'd want to look at the trigger signal and see what kinda voltage it is. Then build an amplifier and send it to a coil. I think you are on the right track and I really don't think it's that big of a problem, especially for someone who is actually an electronics guy. YaKnow, a lawnmower uses a magnet in the flywheel and a pickup with a coil and they don't have a module encased in goop. IDK how different our engines are built. Is the magnet in the flywheel a lot smaller? I've never seen one. But it's gotta have a magnet in it, doesn't it? If getting the potting out is something that just has to happen, maybe you could freeze the module and get a small, sharp chisel and break out some pieces and try to dissolve them in some of the different things that are talked about in the many suggestions that pop up when you search for that answer. The formulation of the epoxy Suzuki uses might go away easier with one approach than another. The only word that comes to mind is aldehyde, it's either from college chemistry or something I read. IDK if it's even relevant, it just keeps rattling around in my head.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Serowbot on 10/29/22 at 11:22:59 How did engines ever run before transistors, chips, and computers? :P

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Yazman on 10/29/22 at 15:08:54 Yeah, this is taking forever to remove the goop. I've seen that thread before, but the components don't look like the 96+ CDIs (mine is 2011). I would love to make these so we don't have to pay $200 on eBay for old ratty ones or fork out $800 for a new one. Alternatively, I'd be interested in trying to install a simple magneto type system like JOG said.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by verslagen1 on 10/29/22 at 16:05:48 I doubt that this board was made special just for a suzuki savage. If it were me, I'd peruse flea bay for a similar component. Check the manual to see if the advance curve was the same, check to see what coil was used, etc. And if it were close enough and reasonable...

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Yazman on 10/29/22 at 17:11:39 I think you're right. The board has a Mitsubishi logo on it. The serial number is jj331B14502A. No hits on Google though. I'm soaking the board in acetone to remove goo.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Yazman on 10/30/22 at 06:12:28 Yeah, my buddy backtracked his support for this project.... I'm gonna start by contacting Mitsubishi to see if the board itself is available. If not, I'm going to start contacting Chinese companies that break patent laws (i.e., all of them) to see if they're interesting in producing these.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/22 at 06:37:32 That is a Buncha stuff.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by verslagen1 on 10/30/22 at 10:45:44 this is what they used to look like...

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by SpamyToo on 10/30/22 at 12:04:57 Looks like a multipurpose board.  Lots of areas with no components.  It could be reverse engineered from the looks of it.  China aint going to have anyone interested unless you can get 10000 of them ordered. You can design your own board fairly cheaply.  There is a sweet spot for volume to cost on PCB's.  I have them made up often. Some I assembly myself but often Ill have them assemble the components as well. Where you might run into trouble is if any of the circuits are programable.  Then your screwed.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Scottwerty on 11/01/22 at 16:57:26 Probably the transistor or surface mount capacitor failed. It might be worthwhile to find the failed part.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/01/22 at 18:28:51 Why is that thing so complicated?

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by verslagen1 on 11/01/22 at 22:10:42 7E6167607D7A4B7B4B73616D26140 wrote: Why is that thing so complicated? f'ing electrons.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Scottwerty on 11/02/22 at 02:53:16 On the older one is alot easier to fix. Unless any of the custom chips are bad. It's just a matter of finding the failed part. A voltmeter and some patience will definitely save you money. Are they interchangeable?

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Yazman on 11/02/22 at 06:53:06 UPDATE: I sent my engineering genius buddy schematics, parts list, board map (from anonymous source), and this is what he said: There would be 2 catches due to the presence of a microcontroller. 1. It's old and consequently obsolete (not readily on the market). One could still find parts on aliexpress and ebay, apparently, but then the success of the whole system is gambled on getting a legitimate part (instead of some knockoff clone or fake): https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/embedded/microcontrollers/685?s=N4IgjCBcoGwJxVAYygMwIYBsDOBTANCAPZQDaIALGGABxwDsIAuoQA4AuUIAyuwE4BLAHYBzEAF9xhAExkQAQQAqcAAzcw0lSubigA 2. Microcontrollers need to be programmed. Without software files, this would be a dead end.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Scottwerty on 11/02/22 at 07:04:44 There is a way! Need to get a chip reader. Like the ones used for arcade emulation!

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Yazman on 11/02/22 at 07:29:39 I have hope! We can still figure something out. Regarding why this lightning box is so complicated, I'm guessing it has to do with all the safety doo-dads feeding into it? In other words, the savage could have had a simple magnet on the flywheel and a magneto if not for all the safety stuff and allows the spark box to fire only if certain conditions are met. I might be way off. But if the timing isn't variable (different advance or retardation depending on engine conditions), couldn't you theoretically just use the old magneto?

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/02/22 at 07:57:55 IDK how a mower does its thing. The rpm range, timing, I'm pretty sure, doesn't have an advance curve. I can see how to do the interlocks. And gates,nand gates, logic circuits. Shouldn't need a quarter acre of silicon to make it not start in gear with the stand down. How to build an rpm responsive spark timing circuit? The start place for knowing what is needed is to see exactly where the piston is when the crank magnet hits the pickup. If I was the guy who set where that moment happened I Think I would have it advanced, because a delay circuit is something I can understand, but asking a board to deliver a spark before the pulse is made doesn't sound possible. At low rpm a longer delay would be necessary. As rpm increases, less delay equals advanced spark. Starting to see how it is so complicated. F'ing  electrons indeed..

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by verslagen1 on 11/02/22 at 10:23:53 As far as I know, all the safeties are external and like a karen shuts the power off to the box if you don't comply. The box gets signaled that the starter is active and retards the timing. The box also gets signaled at 5 deg. btdc and uses that to calculate rpm to adjust the advance.

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by Yazman on 11/12/22 at 09:34:33 A potential clue fellas!

Title: Re: I need some vigilantes - making a magic voodoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/22 at 09:55:15 WD, haven't seen that guy in a while.. Hopefully you can get your problem solved and a low buck repair for that would be great for everyone.

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