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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Rights vs Freedoms
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Message started by Eegore on 06/01/22 at 18:24:37

Title: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by Eegore on 06/01/22 at 18:24:37

Not all permissions are "Rights". Most are "Freedoms."

https://perspectiveminds.weebly.com/uploads/4/5/2/2/4522766/what-is-the-difference-between-a-right-and-a-freedom.pdf

https://askanydifference.com/difference-between-rights-and-freedom/

So when I say I don't think we have a "Right" to do something like buy groceries, that does not mean it is not protected at all. It is just not defined legislatively or Constitutionally as a "Right" but would instead be considered a "Freedom" which in itself is protected in the 5th Amendment.

For instance "Freedoms" are initiated at birth, where a "Right" has certain degrees of stipulations. "Rights" are actually more restrictive than "Freedoms.

Maybe this can clear some things up since having a different opinion about Rights results in complaints and insults instead of actual discussion, as if complaining and telling others to stop contributing is the only way to respond to a difference in opinion.

Title: Re: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/22 at 00:51:36

I'm not going to argue against your opinion

Title: Re: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by WebsterMark on 06/02/22 at 04:50:48

I will.
At least a little.

The preamble to the constitution is not law, but is nonetheless part of the constitution. And the phrase ‘promote the general welfare’ is repeated with slightly different wording in The Constitution.

A grocery store patron has a right to participate in the welfare of The United States. If he’s black, he has a specific right codified in law, but that law stems from foundational phrase ‘promote the general welfare”.

All of have the “right” to participate in ‘the blessings of liberty’.

That’s enough for now. I have a busy day.

Title: Re: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by Eegore on 06/02/22 at 07:47:11

My understanding of the Blessings of Liberty is that it has historically been applied to the contents of the Bill of Rights since they are not specifically defined in the US Constitution.

I would say securing the "Blessings of Liberty" is a preservation of the rights and freedom of each US citizen, so it covers both Rights codified by law and Freedoms recognized at birth.

When it comes to going to a grocery store, I am not sure that specific action is a "Right" since you can do that simply by being a US born citizen. It wouldn't require that it be for the "Welfare" of anything at all. So that seems more like a Freedom to me, since there are zero stipulations for a US Citizen to go to a grocery store.

What is definitely a "Right" is section 1 of the 14th Amendment, and the 5th Amendment, which more directly addresses JoG's original question about Government takings. If I were to take it to court I would argue less about Rights to grocery shop and more about the limitations of Government actions.

Title: Re: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by WebsterMark on 06/03/22 at 03:57:27

I would put it this way. We have the Right to certain freedoms.

Title: Re: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by Eegore on 06/03/22 at 05:49:14

I would put it this way. We have the Right to certain freedoms.

I agree when it comes to something like the 1st which creates a Right that encompasses 5 Freedoms. There is no stipulations on the 1st as it applies at birth, and to anyone, US legal citizen or not, that is in the US.

Other Rights however have stipulations. The 2nd Amendment would be an example, we can't actually exercise that Right at birth, kids can't carry guns to 3rd grade - non US citizens aren't guaranteed that Right.

This is where I start to look more along the lines of Freedoms as more of a birthright and Constitutional Rights, some of them, having more stipulations.

A whole other facet to this is the difference of Freedom "TO" and Freedom "FROM". Rights in the US Constitution address both concepts.

In regards to buying groceries I feel it is more of a Freedom "TO" do it, and is protected in the 1st Amendment, however the US Constitution addresses Freedom "FROM" government interference in a more specific method and more often in the form of Rights. Constitutionally I think the "Right" portion of buying groceries is addressed as a Freedom "FROM" government interference than "TO" go out an buy things.

Title: Re: Rights vs Freedoms
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/03/22 at 11:24:04

Okay, I think I'm starting to understand you better. I've not been seeing you the way I'm starting to think I should have. For that, I apologize.