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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Clutch problem. Not releasing, sticking. Resolved /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1645992005 Message started by youzguyz on 02/27/22 at 12:00:05 |
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Title: Clutch problem. Not releasing, sticking. Resolved Post by youzguyz on 02/27/22 at 12:00:05 Greetings wise and wonderful Savage gurus. Yeah.. I know, I should be one too. HEY.. I ride 'em... Somebody else has to help me keep them going!!! Did a clutch "rebuild" on Thumper just before the infamous 222,222.2 ride. It hae been slipping a little for quite a while. Darn near did NOT make it home. The clutch was a bit grabby before the ride.. I passed if off as needing to "wear in", as I put together the best set of friction plates I could from 2 different sets. By "best" I mean the thickest ones as measured by trusty Mr. Micrometer. Also used the best springs I had. It just kept getting grabbier. Close to home, I was having a real hard time shifting, getting in neutral, even coming to a stop if I couldn't get to neutral. Clutch just would not completely dis-engage. When I say "dis-engage" I mean pulling in the clutch handle. With the bike not running, and you put it in gear, the bike should move fairly easily with the clutch pulled in. Thumper is NOT. IT does MOVE, but you have to push pretty hard. Just opened it up again. Made sure I did not do a STOOPID with the wave washer. The way I remember the right way is to think of the washer like a cone. The pointy end goes IN. Right? I am thinking I should go to a longer push rod because of the thicker plates. The thicker the plates, the longer the reach the rod has to make. Right? Thanks guys! |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by youzguyz on 02/27/22 at 12:25:09 More info. I don't know what it means to have the clutch lever "between the marks" on the crank case. I see the marks.. but the TOP of the lever, the BOTTOM of the lever or the MIDDLE of the lever? (Durn lever is just as wide as the distance between the marks!) I checked before I opened it up, and the middle of the lever was just above the middle of the space between the two marks. And, I checked the cable. It is not frayed or stretching. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/22 at 14:39:33 sounds like you need a longer rod. if you measure the length of the rod sticking out of the spider, it should be between 12 and 12.5 mm long. Some key points to look for... the rod is too long if you can't get it to engage after closing it up. it's too short if you can't get it to disengage while pulling the lever. you want the lever as low on the case as possible, this gives you the most clutch movement. and you should have some free play left. I like having the end facing out to have a full rounded end so it fits in the dimple with full contact to minimize wear. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by DragBikeMike on 02/27/22 at 15:28:18 A picture is worth a thousand words. The wave washer is installed so that the edge of the outside diameter bears against the steel clutch plate, and the edge of the inside diameter bears against the seat. The seat goes between the aluminum clutch hub and the wave washer. My crude sketch does not show the fiber plate that is sandwiched between the clutch hub and the steel clutch plate. That fiber plate surrounds the wave washer and seat. If you define the "pointy end" as the inside diameter of the conical washer, then I suspect you put it in backwards. You want the edge of the outside diameter touching the steel clutch plate. You want the edge of the inside diameter touching the steel seat. You want the steel seat between the wave washer and the aluminum clutch hub. The seat keeps the wave washer from digging into the soft aluminum hub. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by DragBikeMike on 02/27/22 at 15:40:09 While the distance that the pushrod sticks out from the push piece (19) is a nice reference for an all-new assembly, it will not be the determining factor for the release lever position. That's because the position of the push piece and release plate (14) change as the clutch wears. As the clutch wears, the release plate and push piece move outward toward the clutch cover. Put in new clutch plates and the position of the release plate and push piece move in toward the engine case. That's why the pushrod comes in different lengths so you can reposition the release arm and cam as the clutch wears. When the pushrod is too long, the position of the release arm will look like this. It indicates that the clutch plates have worn some. They might still be OK, and a shorter pushrod will bring the release arm back to the correct position. If you need a pushrod shorter than 44.5 mm the clutch plates are probably worn out and should be replaced. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by DragBikeMike on 02/27/22 at 15:45:06 When the pushrod is too short, the position of the release arm looks like this. It would be expected if a new set of clutch plates were just installed. If your release arm looks like this when the longest pushrod (46.5 mm) is installed, something isn't right. Don't just make a longer pushrod, figure out what's wrong. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by DragBikeMike on 02/27/22 at 15:48:28 When things are just right, the release arm will look like this. It will be centered between the two marks on the case when all the free play is taken up. Just let the weight of a large crescent wrench take up all the slack in the release mechanism. Don't push on the wrench, just let the weight of the wrench take up the free play. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by DragBikeMike on 02/27/22 at 16:06:17 Some things that can affect the position of the release lever are: Clutch cover gasket: If it is too thick or too thin it will change the position of the release lever. If the gasket is too thick the lever will sit high in relation to the marks on the case. If the gasket is too thin, the lever will sit low. Release cam fit: If the release cam (23) is loose on the shaft, the lever will be high in relation to the marks on the case. Pressure Disc (13) and Clutch Hub (4) Wear: As the pressure disc and clutch hub wear, the position of the lever arm will get lower in relation to the marks on the case. Release Bearing (20) Worn: If the release bearing is grossly worn, the lever will sit high in relation to the marks on the case. Clutch Plates Worn: Once the clutch plates are worn out, the lever will be low in relation to the marks on the case. Even with the longest pushrod, the lever will still be low in relation to the marks. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by DragBikeMike on 02/27/22 at 16:20:53 And yes, thicker plates generally require a longer pushrod. But as you can see, there are all sorts of other variables that affect the position of the release lever in relation to the marks on the case. |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by youzguyz on 02/28/22 at 00:59:29 445740415E5355575C03320 wrote:
Thanks Versy! I will measure the "sticking out" portion of the rods I have and find the one that is closest to 12.25mm. I kinda figured the rod I was using ended up being too short for the plates I had put in. I intend to "dry test" the clutch. Button it all up with every other bolt or so in the clutch cover. No oil, no start. Just put it in gear, pull in the clutch and see if it rolls easier than before. If not, try a different rod.. I guess! :-? |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by youzguyz on 02/28/22 at 01:01:57 13151A66646367570 wrote:
Mike, mine was just a TAD (1/8" or so) higher than that when I went to open it up again. Thanks for clearing up that I should be looking at the center of the arm in relation to the marks. :D |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by youzguyz on 02/28/22 at 01:19:40 7C7A75090B0C08380 wrote:
Yep... looks like I have it backwards. I misinterpreted the drawing in the Clymers. Thanks! :D |
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Title: Re: Clutch problem. Not releasing.. sticking... Post by youzguyz on 03/01/22 at 03:02:29 The last drive plate had some marks in it from the backwards wave washer, so replaced that, the wave washer, the seat washer and the odd ball friction plate. Did the dry testing as mentioned on my previous post. It rolled easiest with the stock push rod, so went with that. It did not roll as easy as Mad Hamish.. but, not too bad. Push rod sticks out about 12.2mm. The clutch lever is a bit higher than middle of the marks. Took it for a short test ride. Clutch feels good.. so far! Hope to go for a longer ride this afternoon. Thanks Versy and Mike! :D |
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