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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Re: 33 people shot /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1645755503 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/22 at 19:09:52 |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/22 at 19:09:52 When the states where the guns are coming from show the bloody results of guns THERE, I would be forced to think. If GUNS are the problem, Howcumizzit Texas isn't having that problem? C'mon ,here it is. Perfect opportunity for a Genuine discussion. He, the nape challenged one from far away, WANTS us to have real conversations. Don't CLAIM. Explain WHY Chicago is so deadly compared to the places where guns are not just legal to Have, but carry. Is it not confusing that places where you can open carry, or carry concealed, have such different weekend Bullet and Blood reports? I remember the There will be Blooood in the Streets! When the rules changed and concealed carry became legal in restaurants that sold alcohol. Wrong again. The people who say Follow the Science Don't believe the FBI crime stats. If they did, they would look at crime rates after gun laws change. Crack Down Crime up. Read the constitution Apply it And the MAJORITY of the people ,who are good citizens, some of whom choose to arm themselves, are suddenly deterring crime. How? Mental exercise.. Word problem.. You are a violent criminal. You Know the law abiding are not armed, because it's Illegal. You, violent criminal, are afraid of WHOM? Only criminals are armed, Right? Insert answers here. Now, let's Say ten to fifteen percent are good, upstanding citizens who have chosen to carry. You, violent criminal, now have to evaluate the people around you if you want to rob the store. If it's around ten percent of the people who are armed and there are around twenty people milling around, meehh, might be two, might be none,, maybe ten.. Who knows? You think that does not matter? Its GOTTA matter. How else do you explain Why crime drops when Freedom to defend yourself is allowed? How is it possible to not see that? ohh,your answer is welcome anywhere. That looks like a great introduction to a conversation that needs to happen. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 02/25/22 at 07:53:57 454E4B4B5E49484942444C270 wrote:
It it your opinion, that things like the above post occur because of; Freedom for responsible people to have firearms ? Or lack of punishment for people, that kill and shoot others? Here is a wonderful chance to have a conversation ! |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Dave on 02/25/22 at 10:01:31 I seldom post anything here - but I feel the need to comment about the rural area where I live in KY. All of my neighbors have guns - most likely they have several. The kids are also likely to have guns once they get to a responsible age. I had a single shot .22 rifle when I was 6 - my parents didn't want me to have a BB gun as they worried about the BB ricocheting and hurting me. Our school gave a "Hunters' Safety Course" when I was in JR. High School, and in Boy Scouts we shot rifles and skeet at summer camp. Every weekend that isn't raining I hear somebody out shooting at targets. During hunting season there are far less shots as folks are not shooting at cardboard anymore and looking for something with feathers or fur to shoot at. We don't shoot family members or neighbors on a regular basis. I can only think of two shootings that have happened in the last 20 years or so. Both of them were deranged women who shot their lovers in the bedroom. One lady was in her 50's and shot her husband - the both of them were "swingers" and had multiple affairs with other lovers. The other shooting was an unstable college girl who shot her boyfriend. Downtown Cincinnati is just 20 miles away and there are shootings frequently. Perhaps the problem is not guns - evidently big cities are the problem! |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 02/25/22 at 11:52:19 I live in one of the only cities that can give Chicago a run for its money as far as murder capital of the country goes and that St. Louis Missouri. What Dave is carefully alluding to is what we all know but can’t say. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Serowbot on 02/25/22 at 12:00:40 I think that's not what Dave is saying, but you're reading into it. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/25/22 at 12:18:03 We can chat amongst ourselves while they huddle up and work out a plan. Something I wonder about is basic human nature. I'm not going to go making a science project out of it, but if you know, please share. I wonder about population density and how it affects people. Poverty is never a good thing, hopeless people are not the same as people who are getting up every day, working towards goals. If they see no opportunity to grow in their lives,, they could be dangerous. Unhappy where you are? Pack up, hit the road,, what do you have to lose? Sounds easy.. But if Johnny can't read, opportunity for SomeOne could be in arms reach, but if you're not qualified,, the opportunity is not for you. What ARE that persons goals? I knew a kid in Houston who was not afraid to tell anyone, teachers, anyone, his goal in life was to make the FBI Top Ten list. And he was a disruptive, useless POS. Why we are Seeing what we are Seeing is complicated, so many variables, but what I DON'T see is evidence that gun control can fix it. In the 80s, Odessa was the capital. ODESSA, Texas -- City officials Monday blamed an influx of oil field workers during the 1981 energy boom for the string of murders that made the west Texas community the nation's new murder capital last year. But it was never just a shooting gallery. Beating and stabbings were high on the list of How it was done. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/25/22 at 12:30:34 Here is a wonderful chance to have a conversation ! Because yes, Im sure there is no way that that conversation would turn into an argument. I will say only one thing If we see fit to require a license to drive a car why not require a license to own a gun |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 02/25/22 at 16:10:37 303B3E3E2B3C3D3C373139520 wrote:
Please expound on what parameters/requirements, you believe, should be in place for a, 'license', to own a firearm. The parameters of, punishment, for for someone, 'licensed', that used a firearm wrongly. The parameters of, punishment, for for someone not, 'licensed', that used a firearm wrongly. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/25/22 at 17:10:42 43605D7E7C6760690E0 wrote:
Please expound on what parameters/requirements, you believe, should be in place for a, 'license', to own a firearm. The parameters of, punishment, for for someone, 'licensed', that used a firearm wrongly. The parameters of, punishment, for for someone not, 'licensed', that used a firearm wrongly. [/quote] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia#:~:text=A%20person%20must%20have%20a,be%20a%20%22prohibited%20person%22. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#:~:text=New%20Firearms%20licences%20are%20issued,proper%20to%20possess%20a%20firearm. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/25/22 at 17:11:34 [quote author=32393C3C293E3F3E35333B500 link=1645755503/0#7 date=1645821034]Here is a wonderful chance to have a conversation ! Because yes, Im sure there is no way that that conversation would turn into an argument. I will say only one thing If we see fit to require a license to drive a car why not require a license to own a gun[/quote First, no license required for Free Speech. Or any other human rights. Travel is Natural. Using Common Means,, and the fact that we All pay for the road. It's everyone's road. Now, Untrained is not the same as Unlicensed. A license is permission from the state to do what would otherwise be illegal. https://wearechange.org/u-s-supreme-court-says-no-license-necessary-to-drive-automobile-on-public-highwaysstreets/ Accepting and defending what we were all taught, and, yes,once upon a time I agreed with you, but I started questioning things and digging around and managed to get out from under what I had been wrongly taught. I don't have a temporary License that I have to pay for to carry around to prove I graduated. Why do I need to pay the state for a temporary license to drive a car? A Proof of Training card would be just fine. Unless someone can explain why not. And, here's a thought... We have Laws. If someone Does something and causes pain or loss in the lives of other people they can be held liable. Responsible people, people who don't want to pay fines or go to jail, operate in response ways. Texas is now open carry. I don't, because I have not gone and been trained. I'm not unfamiliar with guns,, at all. I have a few, I have worked on triggers, I'm a decent shot,, average.. But I have not been in a class and exposed to everything a concealed carry license requires. Would that idea,that only licensed people can have a gun, would That change the bullets and blood score in Chicago? Why work to create roadblocks for the law abiding? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 02/26/22 at 05:27:40 Billy, how many of those 33 shootings and 7 murders were illegal? How many of the weapons used in those events were used illegally? How many of the weapons were obtained illegally? How many of the weapons used were owned by people already prevented by law from owning a gun? How many shootings and killings in Chicago did NOT occur that weekend because the perpetrator thought I do not have a permit for this gun so I won’t shoot that guy over a drug deal gone bad or because he disrespected me at the club earlier that night? We can make pretty close educational guesses at those question but when people say we need more gun laws, the only people who follow those laws are people like me. The people who shot 33 and killed 7 have no intention of following new licensing laws. So the road you’re really going down is gun confiscation. That’s always the end game for gun control. Always. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 02/26/22 at 07:58:48 010A0F0F1A0D0C0D060008630 wrote:
Australia "genuine reason" (which does not include self-defence) New Zealand possession of firearms is considered a privilege It is my opinion, Both are totally contrary to the Constitution, of a FREE Nation. Change the fundamentals of this Free Nation, then Try again. Oh Wait, their already is a group, trying to do that very thing ! |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/26/22 at 13:21:06 754740515647506F435049220 wrote:
and how many school shootings have happened in NZ and Oz in the last 50 years. because Its harder to buy a gun than milk It's not hard at all to get a gun over here, On the contrary, I know lots of people that own guns, including at least 2 people that are licensed to own military grade stuff that would make a Texan blush, the difference is you just can't go buy them at a 7-11 In my option, the NRA has done an amazing job of convincing everyone that guns and freedom are the same things so anyone challenging "gun culture" instantly gets hammered with "your anti-freedom", that sounds a lot like indoctrination to me. What is so wrong with wanting a background check on someone before handing over a device that was built for the purpose of killing, As a side note how did the NRA, a relatively small group get so much of a say...oh that's right, lobbying, the legal art of bribing and buying your own politician I will admit that America very much has a situation of getting the genie back in the bottle with the number of guns in circulation but even small steps will get them out of the wrong hands faster than doing nothing Laws won't stop someone shooting someone else but it makes it a lot harder to access guns and stops impulse shooting |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 02/26/22 at 13:36:23 48434646534445444F49412A0 wrote:
Would that be like, Chicago where it is Very HARD to, Access Firearms. And they have the or one of the HIGHEST RATES of KILLING by, "impulse shooting' ? Where most other places, it is much easier to access Firearms. And they have a very LOW, rate of "impulse shooting' ? All about the, 'gun', nothing about PUNISHING the Crime ! |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/26/22 at 14:05:59 42615C7F7D6661680F0 wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong Im all for punishment and consequences for actions but ive seen enough phone and bodycam footage to know thats not a thing any more. comman secce left the building years ago what im saying is you a more likely to shoot someone if you have a gun rather than if you dont, so MAYBE make it just a little bit harder to get one |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/22 at 14:34:16 I was hoping you would address the points I made. You know,, like a conversation. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 02/26/22 at 15:14:39 The majority of these shootings are done by a relatively small and easily identifiable demographic but we’re all gonna ignore it? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/26/22 at 15:16:38 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
Answer me this, will anything I say change your mind? No? So no point being specific, you have your mind set and nothing I say will change it even if you bothered to read and consider it, you have made that very clear in previous posts (and that's fine, that's your right) That's not a conversation that's 2 people talking AT each other and Ill be honest, I am pretty sure nothing you can say will change mine You are a violent criminal. You Know the law abiding are not armed, because it's Illegal. You, violent criminal, are afraid of WHOM? Only criminals are armed, Right? I agree with you to a certain extent, that's why a large number of guns need to be removed from the public arena, that cant be done quickly as the results would be catastrophic like you are implying, but it doesn't need to be done overnight, I can't remember how long it took NZ to do it but IF I remember right OZ did it over a 3 year period, so I don't see any reason America couldn't work out a 10 or 12-year plan to reduce not ban, maybe not even lower the number of guns just ad screening of some form, hell isn't something like that done to have a total ban on smoking (I think I might be getting my country's confused on that one) Insert answers here. Now, let's say ten to fifteen percent are good, upstanding citizens who have chosen to carry. You, violent criminal, now have to evaluate the people around you if you want to rob the store. If it's around ten percent of the people who are armed and there are around twenty people milling around, meehh, might be two, might be none,, maybe ten.. Who knows? You think that does not matter? How about I'm walking down the street and some random person shoots me because I look at them wrong and they are disgruntled and had a bad day at work or is that just the price I have to pay for freedom? Its GOTTA matter. How else do you explain Why crime drops when Freedom to defend yourself is allowed? I never said it didn't. but if the choice is letting everyone have a gun and making it a little harder to get guns then I know what I prefer (Again I do understand this would be hard to achieve with the amount of guns already in circulation, but it's also impossible to achieve if nothing is done) How is it possible to not see that? ohh,your answer is welcome anywhere. Gun crime drops when there are less guns How is it possible to not see that? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 02/27/22 at 06:15:55 There's a practicality you mentioned in passing several times that can't be overcome. Not that it's difficult to overcome, it's impossible to overcome. The estimate i just looked up said there are likely 400 millions guns in the US. Guns don't have am expiration date. My brother and I just fired a rifle that was a contemporary of the weapons used by Custard's men 150 years ago at Little Big Horn. (Trapdoor Springfield for you gun nuts) Unfortunately, not one that was actually used at the battle because that would be worth some serious cash, but was built a few years before. It has sat for nearly 100 years without being fired. Little cleaning and a low power shell for safety and the thing fired amazingly. Surprisingly accurate. Point is, you're not going to get rid of guns. Never. The few people who would turn guns in are people who would never use guns in crimes so forget any idea about removing guns from the citizenry because its never going to happen. Never. So what are you left with? As I said, here in one of the cities that got the title of murder capital of the nation, St. Louis, I can tell you the unpleasant reality is murders by non-black perpetrators are roughly equal to what you consider to be safe European cities. Here's the truth. The African American culture in large urban areas are plagued with an acceptance of violence by a large enough percentage of that demographic that it permeates their culture. That's a fact. What caused it and how to change that culture have nothing to do with taking guns from rural and suburbanites. That's another fact. One more fact; not sure about you but many other on here will call me racist for starting those facts because to accept reality would cause them distress so we'll just keep kicking the 'need more guns laws' can down the road a little further. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 02/27/22 at 08:03:44 02090C0C190E0F0E05030B600 wrote:
So you P&M about having a conversation, yet don't want to have one ??????? "... How about I'm walking down the street and some random person shoots me because I look at them wrong and they are disgruntled and had a bad day at work, or is that just the price I have to pay for freedom? ..." Ban Cars; 1,350,000 people KILLED by cars a year. (+/-) Guns; 14,000 people killed each year, (which INCLUDED Justifiable) (+/-) (National Center for Health Statistics reports 38,390 deaths by firearm, of which 24,432 were by suicide) A media report from FL, after they passed the 'right to carry law'. Reporter: 'how has the right to carry law affected you' Store owner: 'I used to have a gun robbery each month, last 6 months I have had none' R: 'Why is that' S: 'See the sign' (The sign said free coffee to those that show permit to carry) S: (pointing to 7 people drinking coffee) 'Which ones, are drinking free coffie ?' (JOG said) Its GOTTA matter. How else do you explain Why crime drops when Freedom to defend yourself is allowed? "... I never said it didn't. ..." Yet you said it did, in the response below ! (Just like I say to a DFI driver on the freeway, 'PICK ONE', lane) "... Gun crime drops when there are less guns How is it possible to not see that? ..." Yep, JUST LIKE, Banning Red Cars, because a Red Car was used in a Bank Robbery. Therefor one can say; 'Less Bank Robberies using red cars'. Take away guns, less gun crime. BUT NOT LESS CRIME. It is MORE Crime. "... making it a little harder to get guns ..." Happening since 1934 |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/27/22 at 19:43:26 You Do follow the news, right? People shoot random strangers. How about I'm walking down the street and some random person shoots me because I look at them wrong and they are disgruntled and had a bad day at work or is that just the price I have to pay for freedom? You bet. Sorry, but people kill each other. And look at where that is happening more Look at where it happens less. And notice Nowhere is there a Zero. Murder rate. So, since it's Not possible to get to safety, then what? You Do believe self defense is a natural right, don't you? I'll wait for your answer before I go on. I'm trying to honor your reasonable request for a civil discussion. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/27/22 at 20:54:40 3E2127203D3A0B3B0B33212D66540 wrote:
It shows, from my point of view you asked valid questions rather than telling me my option is wrong, I respect that. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 02/27/22 at 21:17:20 340601101706112E021108630 wrote:
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 02/28/22 at 05:08:23 Billy, kudos to you for hanging in there. All the other lefties would have bailed by now. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 02/28/22 at 05:26:43 I didn’t know anything about this gun buy back program you’re talking about so I looked it up. In five year period, 659,940 guns were collected. It’s likely there are more guns in a 25 mile radius from where I’m sitting this morning. Between 1979 and 2013, there were 10,144 total homicide deaths in Australia (Chapman, Alpers, and Jones, 2016). For homicides, the range was from 165 deaths in 2004 to 377 deaths in 1990; 377 deaths in a single bad year for the entire nation of Australia. That’s a bad summer in only the city of Chicago. And I don’t know the answer to this but did you have a demographic that made up only 13% of your population responsible for the majority of gun crimes? Point is, while it’s true there are some programs that scale up, there are many that don’t. Here in St. Louis, for the past five years we had a local politician encouraging a program that worked in some other city, Jackson Mississippi or some smaller town like that I think. He finally got it pushed through here and it was implemented a couple of years ago. Gun crimes actually went up. The reason why is because it just didn’t scale up to the problems of St. Louis. We have massive crime problems in large stretches of urban areas in almost every single major US city. A gun buyback program that pays fair market value will do nothing except have a few people who are desperate for money sell a gun. I’ve not been to Australia or New Zealand but I’ve been to quite a few European and Asian cities. I was never fearful walking anywhere in the evening by myself. That’s not true in the US. That’s my point about not scaling up. Australia and or New Zealand don’t even come close to comparing to inner-city Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, New York, Houston, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, you get the point. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/28/22 at 17:49:10 I'm not asleep, haven't bailed,been busy and I don't want to just toss something out. This is looking like a good thread and I don't want to mess it up |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/01/22 at 08:34:46 Gun ‘buy back’ programs. It has been mentioned that in some countries, they work. I know the majority, in the Country called the U.S.A., did not work. I know in Minn, NONE of them worked. In fact in Minn, many lead to MORE crime, as “No Questions Asked”. Dealing with, "buy back - no questions asked", remember clearly, when the, 'fee', went to 50.00. A group of people with with fists full of 100 bills, stood on the sidewalk, looked/asked, then offered a 100 bill for things that were worth much, much, much, more. And the drug addled felons were all to happy to double their money. Word spread, and in that area, rapidly, their were more people, (the kind that sell guns out of a trunk of a car) with 100 + bills than people with guns to 'turn in' at 50.00. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/01/22 at 18:41:07 Hey, guys! They are having a " Buy Back" , you know, when the government uses taxpayer money to Buy Back what they never sold.. so we need to see how many guns we can steal. Been working in the shop all day. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/01/22 at 18:48:05 39323737223534353E38305B0 wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong Im all for punishment and consequences for actions but ive seen enough phone and bodycam footage to know thats not a thing any more. comman secce left the building years ago what im saying is you a more likely to shoot someone if you have a gun rather than if you dont, so MAYBE make it just a little bit harder to get one [/quote] Correct, impossible without one. I'm certain that the statistics We get are not complete. Defensive gun use doesn't necessarily mean the trigger was pulled. Coupla thugs approaching an old dude planning on beating him up and robbing him, he shows them it's gonna cost them, they change course. Nobody ever knows it happened, so stats don't show it. I don't understand why society is somehow safer by making it harder for law abiding people to be able to defend themselves. Even IF a society could be completely without guns,the mean people would still kill people. The old, weak,small, defenseless against a young punk. I don't get it. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 03/01/22 at 21:12:59 sorry very tired but will just throw this up WebsterMark It may very well not work/scale-up, there is no easy fix but if its never even tired or looked into then there is no possible way for things to get better MnSpring Well then there is an obvious problem so maybe look at ways to eliminate those problems and try again justin_o_guy2 A very real possibility but is it a much higher possibility than "hey I want to rob a 7-11 lets go rob houses till we find a gun"? I'm certain that the statistics We get are not complete. Defensive gun use doesn't necessarily mean the trigger was pulled. Coupla thugs approaching an old dude planning on beating him up and robbing him, he shows them it's gonna cost them, they change course. Nobody ever knows it happened, so stats don't show it. I don't understand why society is somehow safer by making it harder for law abiding people to be able to defend themselves. Even IF a society could be completely without guns,the mean people would still kill people. The old, weak,small, defenseless against a young punk. I don't get it. Agreed, to a certain extent, you can't take guns away from "good guys" then only "bad guys" would have them and the country would very fast turn into a mad max movie the point is, IMO, to try to get guns out of the hands of the bad guys that cant or won't get a license, it would give the police the power to take "bad guys" guns on the spot. I don't pretend to have all or even any of the answers all I can say is what has worked in countries I've lived, even just the act of requiring guns to be locked away when not attended would more than likely reduce the number of suicides and school shootings, someone breaks into your house and instead of walking away with your 12 gauge and your AR instead they find a locked Safe So to sum up, I'm not in favor of taking away your guns, I just like the idea of if I see you walking down the street open carrying Id feel a lot safer about it if I knew you had never been convicted of a violent crime and/or hadn't been diagnosed as unstable from the outside looking in, America has huge amounts of gun violence, (hell I got my first gun there at 13, it took less than 48 hours and to think of that today terrifies me) you tried doing nothing, and that's not working how about looking at what other places have done and seeing if maybe that might work Again, sorry if none of this makes no sense or comes across as preachy or arrogant that's not my intent, a couple of long days at work and very very tired |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/02/22 at 03:46:56 Billie, Rest up, regroup and come back to the table later. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/02/22 at 06:56:35 72797C7C697E7F7E75737B100 wrote:
Can you supply more detailed information about that ? Place, circumstances, what gun/kind, etc, etc, etc. Oh, do not, fake words, that you (or someone else said), and make it look like I said them. (Removing a, 'double negative', is not, totally making something up) |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Serowbot on 03/02/22 at 08:35:29 The shootout in Tombstone is legend,... so is the Valentines day massacre... Today we call that .... Tuesday. :-? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/02/22 at 08:53:53 If the slaves in America in the 17 and 1800s had access to weapons, would we have had a Civil War? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/02/22 at 12:30:58 4C5A4D50485D504B3F0 wrote:
A-Yep in all the places where, Firearms have been banned ! |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/02/22 at 13:52:57 I think the American revolution proved otherwise but you think what you want. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/02/22 at 16:09:56 Okay. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 03/02/22 at 21:18:49 4F6C5172706B6C65020 wrote:
Can you supply more detailed information about that ? Place, circumstances, what gun/kind, etc, etc, etc. It was 30+ years ago, I was a freshman in high school (might have been 14 not 13), I thought a gun would be a good idea so I got a friend that was a senior to get me one. it was a snub nose 38, if I remember correctly I paid $200 and thankfully about a week later that same friend convinced me to get rid of it Oh, do not, fake words, that you (or someone else said), and make it look like I said them. (Removing a, 'double negative', is not, totally making something up) [/quote] Sorry I dont know what your refuring to, did I misunderstand something? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/03/22 at 05:24:27 2630273A22373A21550 wrote:
I’ve been to quite a few museums across the west and the consensus is the Wild West was never as violent as movies portray. The country had just come through a Civil War in which many participated or made preparations to do so which means many had experience using guns, some in actual war situations. While much of the land was not an official state so didn’t necessarily have the governmental structure, that doesn’t mean it was a preview of MadMax. You think a bunch of men with land, wives and children to protect were just gonna roll over? Not likely. (the disease of liberalism hadn’t come along yet) Sure, there were basically what we would call organized crime today who took over areas, (sort of like modern day BLM movements) but much of the land was governed by locals who just wanted what most of us want. The good people who wanted peace and a chance at prosperity protected themselves with weapons. I just read a stat that, from a daily average point of view, 316 people are shot in the USe Rey day. Ok, fine, but how many are shot by legally owned guns by citizens with no violent or criminal history? How many are used during the commission of a crime? Those would be valuable to see but not so easily found. My guess is an unbiased review of those stats would demonstrate an argument that restrictive gun laws would only impact those gun owners who are very unlikely to use a weapon with nefarious motives. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/22 at 06:40:05 Billy,,a license? Seriously, why? What would a license actually do? Licensed drivers kill people every day. Seriously, ask yourself how you came to believe that a piece of paper would make it all better. I showed you about driving license laws. Do you know how they came about? It was because of commerce. When how all of that really Works is fully ingrained, a little light might just flicker. Awwright, gotta get going, getting ready to get the gall bladder out,, And the kids car has had me busy every day, looks like a couple more, before it's over. I'm in a hurry, didn't read that part, to sum up, I'm not in favor of taking away your guns, I just like the idea of if I see you walking down the street open carrying Id feel a lot safer about it if I knew you had never been convicted of a violent crime and/or hadn't been diagnosed as unstable. If Only the world would work like that.. But a thug can dress up, and strap a holster on, We have No idea how many unlicensed people are driving,, they look just like everyone else. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/03/22 at 07:58:12 3935223D333B33213A540 wrote:
Okay. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/03/22 at 08:00:43 796660677A7D4C7C4C74666A21130 wrote:
Again, a license only effects those who follow the law. That’s it. We had a tragic shooting not long ago in St. Louis in which a little boy was killed. Do you think the gangbanger who shot him would get a license? That’s a serious question that deserves a serious answer. Would he have bought a license? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 03/03/22 at 11:41:50 no it won't stop gun crime, nothing will. But there areas where it will reduce crimes. Like kid is billed at school, goes home goes to get dads gun to show them all, oh no, guns are in a safe, no easy acsses maybe one less school shooting. Cop does a traffic stop, sir I see you have a gun, can I see your licence please...what's that you don't have one, that gun is confiscated, serving a warrant. Oh look guns, who are those? And what about recording serials in a database to track the history. Where did you get this, oh Tim bought it for you, now Tim can no longer buy guns. Right now anyone can have a gun and there is nothing the cops can do, with licening that would give them power to remove those guns from bad guys There is no quick or easy fix, the problem will not go away but there seems to be a lot of people of the option that if it won't 100%fix the problem it's not worth even trying, well I live in a country where it worked, it worked in the country next to us to and guns and gun crime in the "real world" is not something that even crosses my mind these days, I like living where if someone cuts me of in traffic and I use my horn the though of them shooting me dosent cross my mind I think I may have just worn out my "," button |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/03/22 at 16:45:18 0F03140B050D05170C620 wrote:
After your latest ranting. I no longer believe you are a 'devotee' of the book, 'The Prince'. You have it Memorized! |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/03/22 at 16:48:00 7D767373667170717A7C741F0 wrote:
So incredibly wrong. As most of the things you say about firearms. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/22 at 22:23:09 Unless Legally Is part of that Anyone, Can get a gun. And nobody knows, I'm going to need explainied how licensing help,any,since NONE of the people doing the robberies and drive by and gang shootings Will ever be legal owners of guns. Explain, don't just Claim, please |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by Billynoneck on 03/04/22 at 02:16:08 554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:
go back and reread my posts, I've explained my thoughts and opinions and what has been PROVEN to work in Oz and NZ, and honestly, I don't know how to make it any clearer, licensing = a level of control to be able to have laws to get the guns out of the hands of the bad guys, a set of laws that if you don't follow the police can take away the bad guys guns as I said licensing won't directly stop "robberies and drive by and gang shootings", but if you set a framework of laws in place to make it easy to take away guns off bad people, you know the ones that won't get licenses, then enforce those laws and take their guns and arrest them, there will be less bad people with guns and have laws about gun storage so kids can't just grab a gun that's lying around the house and shoot themselves or shoot up their School but what do I know, apparently I'm So incredibly wrong. about most of the things I say about firearms so just ignore me It's all beside the point anyway as politicians get paid way to much by the NRA to just ignore the problem or pretend it doesn't exist and tell everyone that a mass shooting every month is just the cost of freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022 if my maths is right, per capita the US has had around the same amount of mass shooting deaths in the first 2 months of this year as Oz has had since April 2019 |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/04/22 at 05:30:56 as I said licensing won't directly stop "robberies and drive by and gang shootings", but if you set a framework of laws in place to make it easy to take away guns off bad people, you know the ones that won't get licenses, then enforce those laws and take their guns and arrest them, there will be less bad people with guns That framework is in place right now. Come to St. Louis, drive on the 270/255 interchange that circles the city in Missouri and Illinois. Do it on a Saturday evening. You will see multiple cars with blacked out windows and no or expired license plates driving at a high rate of speed in and out of traffic. Actually it doesn’t even need to be on a Saturday night it happens all times of the day. If the cops pulled them, ran their license (assuming they had one ) and searched the car they would find weapon after weapon. Guarantee it. Do they do that? No. Why? Because they’re don’t want to get shot and they’re not gonna get backing from local officials. So let’s assume there was a licensing requirement. If they pulled me over and asked for a license and show it to him. But they’re not going to pull over the people they need to pull over because as I said before they’re afraid to get shot. That’s the truth in St. Louis. Thank you Michael Brown, thank you BLM, thank you Cori Bush, our newest joke of a US congresswoman. That’s the actual, on the ground situation in one major US city and I can guarantee it’s repeated in numerous large cities across the country. Again, licensing, permitting etc. won’t deter criminals at all. All you’re going to do is remove weapons from the hands of people who would never use them in a criminal activity. So you would accomplished nothing. And you cannot compare OZ to the USA. You don’t have the inner city workings and the political baggage that goes with it that we have here. That’s a fact and that changes the equation on the ground. Again, if you take the gun crime numbers generated from just a few zip codes in each major metropolitan areas across the country out of the equation, the rest of the nation is as safe as most European cities, maybe even OZ. We have a violent culture problem, we don’t have a gun problem. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/04/22 at 06:54:53 3935223D333B33213A540 wrote:
It’s the mark of a sociopath that he doesn’t see a connection between those things. Equivocation, what-about-ism, fantasy narratives given superior weight, and- most critically -blindered consideration in all things. Imagine being so fragile that your intellect is content with making nonsensical proclamations, one after another. Mark doesn’t care what regulation is effective- determining effective regulation is not his purpose. Look, I get the impulse of attempting to engage with Mark with a presumption of good faith- but understand that he simply does not subscribe to such notions. His words are no more honest than Putin’s; like Putin, he exploits any presumption of trust, good faith. Mark will be happy to have you chase your tail attempting to demonstrate with examples why his notions are arbitrary and fantastic. He just doesn’t care to learn of the world beyond his prejudice. His arguments are invariably circular, self dependent, frequently incorporating fantasy as presumed truth. His perspective that of an Ouroboros, feeding on itself.[/quote] Okay. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/22 at 09:51:28 but what do I know, apparently I'm So incredibly wrong. about most of the things I say about firearms so just ignore me The entire Reason for this thread is to expose people to the thinking of the people who understand the second amendment and the natural law of being. No Law stops bad people from doing bad things. The sign by the school saying No Guns Allowed Isn't a deterrent, it's an advertisement. Free shooting gallery! And anyone who believes the senators kids are equally unsafe, I suspect they are wrong. Licensing is just a tax on the good guys. Making it harder for law abiding people to defend themselves against the criminal element accomplishes nothing. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/04/22 at 14:39:07 24283F202E262E3C27490 wrote:
Classic seeing someone being so fragile, that their intellect, is content with making, nonsensical proclamations, one after another. Because they read about it in a book. |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/04/22 at 18:21:51 5B505555405756575C5A52390 wrote:
If you stated: "traveling 25MPH, in a 35MPH zone will get you a ticket" I am to ignore that ? (Perhaps once, but not over and over, and over ) |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by MnSpring on 03/04/22 at 18:27:57 "... Licensing is just a tax on the good guys. Making it harder for law abiding people to defend themselves ..." Was their a thing call Poll Tax at one time ? |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/22 at 18:33:05 2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:
Don't want anyone to miss it |
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Title: Re: 33 people shot Post by WebsterMark on 03/05/22 at 04:15:55 Just want to say for the record I admire Billie's input. Never been to OZ so have no idea what’s going on there, other than the semi-fascist way in which they handled non-vaccinated and non-mask wearing citizens which seemed out of character. |
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