SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike is flooding, BAD! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1643763950 Message started by CannabisChemist850 on 02/01/22 at 17:05:50

Title: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/01/22 at 17:05:50 I have a 2000 Savage LS650, I just got it for Christmas. It's my first bike and I love it. The first 3 weeks I put over 1100 miles on it, bringing it to 14,000 on the bike. It has a Raptor petcock (1st change, thanks for the tip, did this day 1.)I was only getting at BEST 31mpg. Then it started idling slow at stoplights, and died. Over about 3 days (& 30 miles) it got worse idling slower, it needed about 1/8th of a turn on the throttle just to idle. Then it turned off at a stop and wouldn't restart. I came back 2 hours later to pickup the bike and it was sitting in a POOL of gas, over half my gas tank. Got it home, gas was FLOODED in the air box (over 12 ounces!!) So I figured I had a stuck float or a ruptured seal in the carb. Pulled the carb, it was gunky but nothing terrible. The float was still springy, floats, and has no fluid inside. Cleaned everything in carb cleaner. Main jet was 150, pilot was 50, I don't remember the top 2 honestly. Put the carb back on. Now it seemed like it wasn't getting spark. Replaced the spark plug, it was BLACK due to the rich fuel mix (I'm guessing I need a smaller main and pilot jet although both match what I've read on here). Replaced the oil, there was a ton of gas in the oil I emptied. Then it started right up, but was idling a bit rough. Tried to adjust the idle/air screw, and I can turn it all the way in WITHOUT killing the engine (so I assume I need a smaller pilot jet, ok), found the "best" crappy idle about 1/2 turn out. Bike ran, then turned off due to low gas. Went to reserve fuel, I've done this 6x and always got 15+miles, but I ran out of gas on a 4 mile test ride. It was DRINKING fuel, and running sluggish, responsiveness on the throttle took 2-3 seconds, but at high idle (4000+?) it ran ok. Then I got gas, restarted it, ran at 1/2 throttle for a minute, let off and it died. Tried to restart 6 times before the battery died. Got a jump, while connected to another vehicle the bike idled perfectly like the day I got it. Then disconnected the cables and it died. Replaced the battery, and then the starter solenoid was not working (checked the starter with a jumper cable and it worked). Took off the tank and just touched the solenoid and it worked again, rewrapped all of the wiring. Then the petcock was leaking (I guess I bumped it when I set the tank on the ground), so I replaced the petcock. Now we're current. I tried starting the bike today, and now it will not start, and every time I try to start it I get gas out of my EXHAUST PIPE!! I am now at a loss. I'm going to pull the float bowl off the carb and put in a 145 main and 45 pilot when they arrive. But I don't think that's my biggest issue, just part of my crappy gas mileage. What is happening with my bike?! I need my happiness back.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/01/22 at 18:03:05 Whoa, Whoa, Whoa! Sleaux Dowwnn...  If you left the petcock on, which is reasonable, Aand the float stuck, that could do that. If it's leaking and slowly sinking, it could do everything you described. I'd want a piece of clear tubing and I'd check my float level. Don't go for The Big Problem. Start with the things that can cause your symptoms, and carburetor issues could cause these problems, I guess. I'm just not tracking with a jet, while you are stacking miles up, start plugging and that causes flooding, instead of starving.. Yeah, I'd Sleaux Down..

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by verslagen1 on 02/01/22 at 19:53:45 JOG is right, something to do with the float valve. Jets are about right. Take the float valve out, there's a screen at the inlet. Clean it out. Check the tip, is it indented? replace it. Check the float level, either by measuring or with the clear tube. And turn the petcock to off when not riding.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by ckahleer on 02/01/22 at 20:53:09 If you are going into the carburetor again, replace the float valve. A PO may have put in a cheap one. I put cheap float valves in a Virago once, and was plagued with gas in oil the and all over the garage floor until I replaced them.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/02/22 at 05:53:32 When you get the carb back on the bench, inspect the tip of the float valve. The rubber tip should be pliable and without any indentation or distortion. There is also a rubber o-ring under the valve seat that should be replaced as well. Finally, get a q-tip and some metal polish, and polish the seat until it shines.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/02/22 at 16:12:16 I did the clear tube test to check the gas level in the carb and it looked right (see photo.), filling to about 1/16" below the top of the float bowl. Pulled the carb out, took it apart and it looks fine. Needle is still a perfect undented cone, looks brand new because it is. The screen under the needle seatlooks brand new, replaced a ween ago.  Needle moves into and out of the seat smoothly. Floats are still floating. Any other ideas why I'm flooding my motor and air box?

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/02/22 at 17:30:46 Like I said above, polish the seat and replace the o-ring. If the seat has contamination, the rubber portion of the valve wont sit all the way down. If the o-ring is hard, it can't do its job. I attached a photo from a CB900 carb book so you can see what I am talking about.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/02/22 at 17:46:08 Don't know the history. You might need to pull and flush the tank. Why it's doing what it is doing doesn't change the way you need to approach what is doing. You went looking and the way you see it The float and needle are adjusted and working. You also saw the gas on the ground. So, call it a Once in a Lifetime float sticking event or What?

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/03/22 at 05:34:13 I replaced the needle seat about a week ago with all of the other jets and internal pieces. Everything internal is new, and genuine Mikuni parts. I was getting at best 30mpg prior to my bike flooding everywhere. I rebuilt the carb. Now the bike will start on the 3rd or 4th try, but is sputtering and will die quickly, as well as sputtering gas from the exhaust pipe (every time it tries to start it is spewing gas from the exhaust) and putting gas mist into the air box. This seems to be a continuing issue. I just put in a 47.5 pilot instead of the 52.5 that was in there originally, I will try it out today but I doubt the pilot changing 2 sizes would cause the level of flooding that I am seeing. I likely will need to do another oil change this week as I'm pretty sure there is gas in the oil again. Everything "looks" right, I'm not sure what I am missing.  :'( The gas tank is less than 6 months old, and was flushed about a month ago when I installed the Raptor.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/03/22 at 08:43:51 Did you replace the o-ring under the seat?

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by ckahleer on 02/03/22 at 09:13:19 Attach the clear tube running along the side of the carburetor using plastic ties. leave it there so you can observe fuel level while the engine is running and is spitting gas out the exhaust and intake. Does the fuel level go above the bowl gasket? After setting awhile with the petcock on, does the fuel level rise? To rule out float valve, you need to verify the problems continue, yet carburetor fuel level never goes higher than it should. You are correct, slight changes in jet sizes is not going to fix this. You may have two separate problems, like a float valve that some times sticks and a hole in the side diaphragm or valve timing/adjustment.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Serowbot on 02/03/22 at 13:30:24 Sounds crazy.   But stay focused. The only way fuel can get into the engine is by passing through the float system.  The problem has to be there somewhere. I'm sure once you get this worked out, your mileage will increase to around 50 to 55mpg.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Serowbot on 02/04/22 at 15:36:12 You do have the fuel line connected to the correct input, right? Labeled "fuel tank line" here

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Fabricio Bino on 02/08/22 at 08:44:39 this I had this problem when installing a carb in an intruder 125 for the first time. I was connecting the fuel hose to the wrong inlet port

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/15/22 at 07:54:29 Where can I get replacement jets for this carb Serowbot? After nearly 3 weeks, taking the carb apart like 8x, and the bike still not working, I have come to the conclusion that although all of the internals look to be OEM Mikuni parts, maybe something is flawed. No matter how I adjust the idle\air screw it runs like crap IF it will start at all. Every time I adjust the float the level looks good, about 1/16"-1/8" below the float bowl seal. I adjusted it to give nearly 1/3" below the float bowl seal and the bike still seems like it is flooding. The bike has a 147.5 main and a 47.5 pilot. I've only had the bike since Christmas, but I put in almost 1000 miles in the first few weeks, EVERY tank only got 30mpg max though! And then one day it just sputtered out at a red light and then dumped all the fuel into the air box. Cleaned the carb. Still nothing. Ordered a set of Mikuni jets from ebay, it ran for about 5 miles and then choked out. I have now tried it with the original jets, and replacements and both sets or combinations of both sets all produces the same SUPER rich conditions that will foul a spark plug in less than 5 minutes. If/when it starts, it will run with over 1/4 throttle, but then even at higher RPM it will start to choke out after a moment or 2 of holding the engine speed. The exhaust is straight black. Nothing I do seems to change anything. And yet my bike will still black out a spark plug to the point it needs to be pulled and cleaned/replaced in less than 5 minutes of choppy idling and running.   I just want to order all new everything inside the carb, but can't find what I need anywhere. Can anybody provide a link and part numbers for like everything that can be replaced inside the carb? I am so frustrated and just want to be on 2 wheels again! :'(

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Serowbot on 02/15/22 at 08:35:56 Your current jets should make you a tad lean if anything. But you're very rich. I don't think jetting is the problem. Fuel is getting past the jets instead of through them. Very frustrating, I can understand. If the rubber diaphragm on the slide is intact,  check that the slide is not gummed up.  A black layer of gook can build up on it and look like normal surface.  Make sure that sucker floats really smoothly in the tunnel. Other than that, I think fuel is getting past the jets somehow.  That's why I asked about where your fuel line is connected. Sorry this is so frustrating.  Don't give up.  I think this is something obvious we are missing.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/15/22 at 10:43:24 I thought that I should be on the lean side with this setup also. The pilot that I removed was originally a 52.5, but I was hoping to lean it out and fix the 30mpg issue. My fuel line is connected correctly. The diaphragm is intact, I gently stretched it all around to make sure there were no small fissures. The slide was black and dirty when I first removed it, but I cleaned it up and had it looking shiny and new. It moves smoothly, with nearly no resistance. I even took the carb off, drained it, and flipped it upside down to do the ol' blow in the fuel input hole and see if the needle is seating and forming a seal, and it does seal. When connecting the clear line to the bottom of the float bowl, it fills to about 1/16" below the float bowl seal, as I have seen in another post on here (thanks for this awesome resource and for sharing all of the collective knowledge!!) But now, short of ordering new parts for all of the carb internals, I'm at a loss. All of the links and part numbers I have found on this site are all dead or out of stock. Any body have a good parts resource, with parts numbers as well?

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/22 at 11:33:59 I'm Waay past my ability to help, but I'm sure gonna follow this. Hey,you probably already said, but how does it run? Good power? What is your top end? Am I correct thinking that If the plug isn't lighting it off well that mpg suffers? What is going on at the end of the exhaust? Is there even anything to learn from looking at it? Idk.. I'm probably embarrassing myself with Stewpid ideas, meehh,, if it gets someone thinking, I'm okay with that.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/15/22 at 13:38:59 I have only had the bike a couple of months. But it has gotten 30mpg the entire time I have owned it. It seemed to be running perfectly fine. Not popping, no sluggish throttle, it was a nice riding bike other than the crappy mileage. Then it started to get sluggish at idle for the last couple of days it was running, and I would have to give it 1/8 throttle at stops to keep the idle speed right. Then after a couple days of the slow idle, it died at a stop and wouldn't re-start. About an hour later I had gas everywhere, I guess a float was stuck. Cleaned the carb, and ever since it has been drowning. I'm guessing it was always drowning a little, but the dirty carb jets and such were helping reduce fuel, and now that it is clean there is too much fuel. But all the jets are correctly sized, the carb parts are Mikuni (although they have seen some miles for sure), and the float bowl fills to the correct height. The end of the exhaust is black. It is definitely covered in a thick carbon deposit, indicating that the system is far too rich. My pipes also turned blue over the last couple of days on the bike before it crapped out. Also indicating an abundance of fuel. Why is there too much fuel? THIS I need to answer.  ;D

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Serowbot on 02/15/22 at 14:04:17 The main jet should have a washer on it. Is yours missing?  17 on this diagram. https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d32f55f8700232d0b3d7de/carburetor

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/18/22 at 10:17:40 Thank you for the link! My main jet does have a washer. I have ordered all new OEM parts. They should arrive in about a week, until then I will keep taking it apart and tinkering and trying it out over and over again. Hopefully something works. :-?

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by TheSneeze on 02/18/22 at 11:35:16 The bluing of the exhaust is an indication of heat, not fuel.  A lean condition can also create excessive heat.  Clearly an indication something isn't happy.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/19/22 at 06:09:45 Ok, so I'm still awaiting new carb parts, but I took it apart. Put a different needle and needle jet I had and the bike fired right up and ran perfect for about 15 minutes. Then it blacked out the spark plug again and it died. Clean the spark plug and it runs great for about 15 minutes, then dies again. It is idling correctly, revving responsively, and felt like a great ride. It definitely wasn't sounding or feeling like it was drowning. How could I be fouling spark plugs soo fast? Using NGK Dpr8ea-9 spark plug. I will have all new Mikuni OEM parts delivered in 1 week, but I want to ride before then! All parts internal all Mikuni but are of unknown age and functionality, so I ordered all new ones. But this bike ran with the old parts, just got 30mpg. But it took over 500 miles to black out and foul the plug before, now it takes less than 5.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/19/22 at 07:54:54 Check the resistance of the coil primary and secondary. The primary should be 1-7 ohms and the secondary between 10,000 and 25,000 ohms. Usually if there is continuity, the coil will pass. I believe that 3 ohms and 15,000 ohms are the sweet spots. While wrong jets/needle can lead to a *little* change in fuel mileage, it shouldn't be significant. Since 90% of your riding is on the needle, that is the circuit that should get most of your attention.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/19/22 at 10:09:25 Care to walk me through that Gary?

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/19/22 at 16:53:54 I'll start Check the resistance of the coil primary and secondary. Gotta have an ohm meter. You can get a cheap, in every measure of the word, meter from harbor freight. I'd much prefer you spend more and have a better tool. My Micronta from Radio Shack is 31 years old. I've buried three harbor freight ones. I'll buy another one, if I'm going to test something that might kill a meter. I'm not about to risk hurting my Micronta.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by CannabisChemist850 on 02/28/22 at 06:23:28 Hey guys, update time. I tested the ignition coil, it got 3.9ohms and 11,000 ohms. I ordered a new one. Replaced the carb internals with all brand new OEM Mikuni parts. Replaced the ignition coil with one from EBAY ($13 score!) that tested at 4.1 ohms and 15,000 ohms. The bike now runs beautifully! I put about 250 miles on it this weekend, and now my mileage has gone from 30mpg up to about 47mpg! I think my bike is back to being happy. And after all of the parts that has gone into it, it should be happy for years to come. Thanks for all of the tips and advice! 8-)

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/28/22 at 07:43:34 Good going...

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/28/22 at 12:06:12 I always like a happy ending.

Title: Re: Bike is flooding, BAD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/22 at 13:47:31 Ahh,fond memories of the massage parlor visits

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