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Message started by Eegore on 01/05/22 at 09:38:15

Title: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/05/22 at 09:38:15

So I got to sit through a press meeting regarding an influx of FEMA medical providers being sent to CO. This is needed as the patient to provider ratio is dangerous. An ICU nurse should not have 9 patients.

There were multiple questions but the big one of the day, which makes sense, is: Why should Medical Company X get FEMA/tax dollar relief for staffing shortages when they fired people for not getting the vaccine?

Nobody was fired.

However question after question attempted to circumvent the "Zero" fired staff and kept coming around to justifying the FEMA aid when Medical Company X brought this on themselves. By firing zero staff they somehow brought on staff shortages?

Now some staff did voluntarily leave when they were informed they would need a medical or religious exemption. They didn't want for whatever reason(s) to fill out an exemption so they left. By choice.

So is this the same thing as firing someone? Is requiring an exemption that anyone can fill out, and is not analyzed (Religious exemptions) equal to terminating their employment?

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by MnSpring on 01/05/22 at 11:50:03

6D4D4F475A4D280 wrote:

"... Is requiring an exemption that anyone can fill out, and is not analyzed (Religious exemptions) equal to terminating their employment?

So absolutely, NO PENALTY,
for LYING on this form ?

Golly Gee Wally,
Just like a FELON, filling out a 4473,
No Penalty !

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/05/22 at 13:29:20

So absolutely, NO PENALTY,
for LYING on this form ?

How would anyone know you are LYING about your religion?

The protocol in place is to provide an exemption form. Not for that form to be read, used, analyzed, evaluated or otherwise verified in any way other than it was submitted and exists.

So is requiring an exemption that anyone can fill out, and is not analyzed (Religious exemptions) equal to terminating their employment?

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by MnSpring on 01/05/22 at 20:13:19

4A6A68607D6A0F0 wrote:

"...
How would anyone know you are LYING about your religion?
..."

Apparently for some,
It makes no difference,
if they LIE or not.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/05/22 at 20:39:38

Apparently for some,
It makes no difference,
if they LIE or not.

We can bring up negative things from a million sources in a million other situations, compare it to gun control, the IRS, whatever you want - but I am talking about this one situation. This one scenario and only this one in exclusivity with the exemption of all other know scenarios.

Lying on forms is a crime in certain situations but not this one. The form isn't even evaluated, one just has to submit it.

Is choosing to not submit a religious exemption equal to being fired?

Should an employee that chooses to leave instead of filling out a form be considered terminated from their job?

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by WebsterMark on 01/06/22 at 05:02:16

So is this the same thing as firing someone?

No, but borderline semantics. It’s common to force someone out of a job by means other than firing them. If you know someone would quit rather than work 3rd shift and you assign them 3rd shift, you simply found an easier way to get rid of someone you didn’t want without the unpleasantness of firing.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/06/22 at 07:48:50

No, but borderline semantics. It’s common to force someone out of a job by means other than firing them. If you know someone would quit rather than work 3rd shift and you assign them 3rd shift, you simply found an easier way to get rid of someone you didn’t want without the unpleasantness of firing.

I see your point. I am not sure requiring a form that nobody evaluates would be considered "force" in this regard. I'm not sure how anyone would know who will or will not fill out a form.

From my perspective when the State Government requires something be done, like a vaccine for healthcare workers, and a Medical Company creates a way to be exempt by filling out a form, they are actually trying to help you keep your job.

This method is free, versus taking the State to court and fighting the mandate. Personally I think trying to wordsmith this to make it sound like the medical Company fired a bunch of people is just a way to manufacture a story.

6 out of about 2000 employees left. You don't need FEMA to come in statewide with hundreds of medical staff to replace 6 people. But that doesn't matter if you can say the Medical Company is getting tax-funded relief because they fired people for not taking the vaccine.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by MnSpring on 01/06/22 at 08:35:50

7E5E5C54495E3B0 wrote:

" ... Should an employee that chooses to leave instead of filling out a form be considered terminated from their job?

YES
When it is, FORCING, someone to LIE on a from.

Here is a question;
"Should an employee that is forced to do something,
or leave the job,
be considered terminated from their job?"

Perhaps one should ask the people that, left their job.

From what you reported, people left their job,
because they were required to LIE on a form.
Regardless of, if you think, no one will look at that form.
(Golly gee Wally, look at the people that ticked a box, on a form, in the mid/late 40's. Then it came to Bite Them In The AZZ in 1950 !)

Did any of the employees 'quit',
like the head of the Mpls Police Dept some years ago.
When a council member told her, 'You will quit/retire, or you will be fired'
(Quitting/retiring still got her pension, Firing NO pension)

And yes Virginia, their is a difference between Quitting and Retiring.
(and the differences depend on a lot of things)
Questions. Which was it, 'Officially' ?
How long did they work ?
How much was paid into a pension ?
What 'words' where said to them
by what, 'person' ?

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/06/22 at 10:01:36

YES
When it is, FORCING, someone to LIE on a from.

They don't have to lie or fill out the form. Two of the people that quit are practicing in a religion that stated the embryonic cell research prohibits the taking of the vaccine as well as many other products. So they wouldn't even be lying.

The form is an option to circumvent State mandate. But if one chooses to not fill out a form and quit, they are fired? I get that if they wait they could be fired, but if you leave before you are actually fired, were you fired?

"From what you reported, people left their job,
because they were required to LIE on a form.
Regardless of, if you think, no one will look at that form.
(Golly gee Wally, look at the people that ticked a box, on a form, in the mid/late 40's. Then it came to Bite Them In The AZZ in 1950 !)"

Gee Wally this form isn't an official Government document. You can lie on it all day because the standard is that it exists, not that it is accurate and applicable under criminal law.

I do see the logic that an employee feels they should not have to fill out any forms of any kind to be exempt from a vaccine.

I don't see that when they decide they do not want to compromise their personal standards and lie on any form anywhere that means they are fired. If it were me I would have actually waited to be fired and not quit then say I was fired.

If my job relocates to Mexico effective Jan 01 2023. I walk off the job today because I was "forced" to move to Mexico to keep my job. I was fired? Would you believe me if I said I was "fired" from a job I could still have tomorrow but chose to leave today?

Either way, how are hundreds of medical staff needed across the State to replace 6 people? That math for sure makes no sense.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by WebsterMark on 01/06/22 at 10:10:37

My job relocates to Mexico effective Jan 01 2023. I walk off the job today because I was "forced" to move to Mexico to keep my job. I was fired? Would you believe me if I said I was "fired" from a job I could still have tomorrow but chose to leave today?

Seriously?

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/06/22 at 10:22:06

Seriously?

Yes.

If a job presents a stipulation for employment that you can not achieve, either by moral values or physical limitations, and you leave, were you fired?

I understand the manipulation that can happen, but I don't understand how people that choose to leave are "fired". They left before they were fired.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by WebsterMark on 01/06/22 at 13:38:03

If management purposely stipulated a change knowing the person would refuse and they did this as a means to get rid of them, call it a cowardly way to fire someone.
If it was a business decision like it sounds in your case, no, you weren’t fired.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/06/22 at 13:47:54

"If management purposely stipulated a change knowing the person would refuse and they did this as a means to get rid of them, call it a cowardly way to fire someone.
If it was a business decision like it sounds in your case, no, you weren’t fired."

I agree. I have seen situations where a legal, yet completely unreasonable change in work conditions was used to get a person to leave. This wouldn't be "firing" someone but is absolutely a means of terminating employment by duress.

In this case the Forms are an attempt to let people keep their jobs after a State mandate changed the working conditions. The requirement is that a Form is submitted and that's it. There is no requirement that it be read, used or otherwise evaluated. So if a person gets upset that they need to fill out a form and walks off the job - they were not "fired". They got mad and walked off.

Only 6 so far have done this and none of them have claimed they were fired. Of course that won't stop others from saying they were to get a good story out of it.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/22 at 16:59:21

ICU nurses,just went home,,

Did anyone fill out the papers?
Were they allowed the waiver?

exemption. They didn't want for whatever reason(s) to fill out an exemption so they left. By choice.

You Know how many years it takes to get into that job? I'm pretty sure you know that people who Do those jobs DON'T get up and go do that just for fun. They have obligations and bills, so, I'm tossing the bullshit flag on this.
The Ease of the Solution that someone has suggested is just not accurately described. Nobody walks away from making a living when filling out a piece of paper means they keep their job. Someone hss misrepresented the situation.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/06/22 at 18:38:41

ICU nurses,just went home,,

I never said they were ICU nurses.

6 staff of almost 2000 left when they heard the State initiated a vaccine mandate.

Now it is claimed that hundreds of staff are needed because of all the people the medical Company fired. All zero were fired, and 6 left due to the Mandate. A few hundred people across the entire State are needed for that? Talk about misrepresentation.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/22 at 23:44:01

This is needed as the patient to provider ratio is dangerous. An ICU nurse should not have 9 patients.
You sure didn't get specific

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/22 at 23:57:40

https://100percentfedup.com/mayo-clinic-fires-700-unvaccinated-employees-amidst-staffing-shortage-crisis/

Fired..

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by WebsterMark on 01/07/22 at 05:28:33

Look, the stupidity of the left in dealing with Covid is undeniable and we’ll see even dumber things now that the left is trying to work the term flurona into the lexicon.

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there is not widespread health damage for healthy people when taking the vaccine. (Widespread being the key word)

Having said that, I am 100% against any type of mandate for a disease with a that targets a relatively narrow demographic of victims who are well known.

I got first vaccination of two shots, but I’m not getting anymore. That’s my decision. I’m relatively healthy, rarely get sick despite years of flying on crowded planes and sleeping in a different hotel 3 nights a week. And after reading several initial studies that show there’s likely some layer of protection for regular Flonase users, I see no reason for a booster. I’m done. Maybe next winter, I’ll get a booster, maybe not. Depends. I’ve gotten maybe 2 flu shots over the years and those were only because I was already in a doctor’s office. I don’t wear a mask unless an employee of a business asks me to and then I have my own masks which either have holes in them so I can breathe without fogging up my glasses or I tear two layers off those surgical masks.

Now, if I were going to spend a couple hours in a small, crowded and poorly ventilated space with a lot of people, especially if they were traveling from overseas, I might wear a mask, but it would be an actual, brand new N95 mask not some ridiculous mask I made out of an old tee shirt or something I bought at CVS cause it had a cool design on it.

My job requires me to fully understand particle capture efficiency of various medias used in filtration so I know with certainty the fights we have over masks are disproportional to their actual effectiveness.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/07/22 at 05:38:05

"This is needed as the patient to provider ratio is dangerous. An ICU nurse should not have 9 patients.
You sure didn't get specific"

So there is a misunderstanding.

To clarify, Medical Company X has not "fired" any employees but system-wide they have had 6 employees leave.

FEMA is now providing support to an overloaded medical treatment system due to mostly C-19 patients and the normal winter infection period. There are more patients admitted in the past 3 months than have ever been admitted in a 6-month period. ICU is particularly hit hard by this due to a decade long shortage of critical care staff, and the C-19/variants.

"Media" are now asking why FEMA needs to come in, but are also saying FEMA is needed because Medical Company X "fired too many staff".

FEMA is needed because of all the patients coming in such a short time.

Medical Company X can't possibly need a hundred staff to replace 6 people, even if all 6 were ICU nurses.

Title: Re: Zero staff fired.
Post by Eegore on 01/07/22 at 05:40:06

https://100percentfedup.com/mayo-clinic-fires-700-unvaccinated-employees-amidst-
staffing-shortage-crisis/

Fired..

Agreed.

The people I am inquiring about were not fired. They left.