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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Guilty? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1636738696 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/21 at 09:38:16 |
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Title: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/21 at 09:38:16 Not guilty? Kyle What say you? Have you watched any of the trial or read any of what people involved are saying? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/12/21 at 10:28:30 That blubbery crying sure looked fake. :-? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/21 at 11:08:50 Is it self defense to shoot a guy who admits Kyle did not point his gun at him until He pointed His at Kyle? You really think it's not traumatic to have to relive being chased, hearing death threats and having to shoot people? This kid was riding in ambulances and working as a lifeguard and volunteer firefighters, not out being a jakkass. If you've been doing any following of the actual statements made by prosecution witnesses then it would seem everyone would agree it was self defense. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/12/21 at 11:13:56 I've seen the videos but have not had access to the court transcripts so I don't feel it is appropriate to make an opinion. As for the video footage, I would have shot anyone grabbing at my gun, or someone else's gun. I would have shot somebody pointing a gun, or starting to point a gun at me. This whole idea that he was wearing a sling and shouldn't have felt threatened when people try to take it is complete BS. Questioning if he should have put himself into that position is another matter. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/21 at 11:19:49 Questioning if he should have put himself into that position is another matter. It's also immaterial. A rape victim who should not have been where she was... |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/12/21 at 20:21:15 It's also immaterial. A rape victim who should not have been where she was... If I choose to go into a bar for the purpose of protecting the establishment because I know there is violence there, without them asking me to or being aware, and illegally carrying a gun inside is different than me going into a bar and legally consuming alcohol as a patron. I think the shooting is legal. I don't think illegally carrying a weapon to a location for the purpose of protecting areas that are not aware of my presence is different. It's similar to me choosing to go outside and fight someone and having to kill them when they pull a knife on me. Versus walking outside and just having somebody jump out with a knife. I didn't knowingly contribute to the position of being stabbed in this case. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/13/21 at 00:20:57 Yeah, what he was doing was So illegal that cops thanked him and gave him water. They didn't send him home or disarm him. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/13/21 at 01:27:48 "Yeah, what he was doing was So illegal that cops thanked him and gave him water. They didn't send him home or disarm him." So it was legal? His defense can say that in his trial? Of course not. My statement is comparing a rape victim not knowingly breaking any known law to a person who does. Not how the police respond to it. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/13/21 at 02:58:29 The guy who he shot last,with the pistol... Legal? Nope. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/13/21 at 04:04:42 If someone pointed a pistol at me I'd most likely shoot at them, but who knows what the jury here will decide. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/13/21 at 04:58:17 I have had a trial on in the background since I’ve been working at home this week so I’ve heard much of this directly. Sew is wrong, that was not a fake emotional display. Now you could argue it was genuine emotion and frustration from being in the position he’s in or you could argue it was genuine emotion from killing two people. You can argue either side, but it was genuine emotion, it was not faked. The prosecution is asking the judge to allow lesser charges because that’s probably his only hope for a conviction. I can’t imagine Kenosha citizens are going to convict this kid of murder when their town with being burned down around them. The prosecutor knows this and he knows star witnesses were 10 times more effective for the defense than him so he’s trying to get something out of it. Rittenhouse his actions were clearly self-defense based on everything I’ve seen on the videos. I don’t think there’s any question about that. The only question is can the prosecutor put enough doubt in the minds on the jurors that basically say he shouldn’t have been there in the first place. And certainly not carrying a gun. And by the way, the prosecutor every time he said A.R. 15 it was like he was saying Hitler or something. If I was on the jury I would’ve been rolling my eyes. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/13/21 at 07:17:17 I'm afraid the jurors have been scared. They may convict just to keep their houses from burning. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/13/21 at 08:17:49 I think he's gonna' walk,... and maybe he did manage to get himself into a justified homicide situation, but I do think he is in some way culpable for creating that situation and should have some liability. 2 men dead, and 1 disabled at the hands of an irresponsible teen showboat. I hope he at least grows enough brain to feel the weight of his actions. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/13/21 at 11:50:08 Would those rioters have attacked him if he was in the same location without a rifle hanging off him? Maybe, maybe not. Why chase someone with a rifle? I think they thought he was a wussy little kid. Bad calculation. Should have learned from Trevon Martin, pick a fight and things might not go the way you think. A large part of me thinks if you go to a BLM / antifa riot, regardless which side you’re on, you assume all responsibilities. Those three pieces of $hit picked on the wrong kid and two are dead and one had, in his words, bicep vaporized. Drop it and send him home. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/13/21 at 15:48:41 5A4C5B465E4B465D290 wrote:
He RAN FROM THEM. And it's his fault How? You chase a guy who has a gun?? And get shot.. Duude,, that is on You. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/13/21 at 16:56:21 He RAN FROM THEM. And it's his fault How? If I choose to go into a bar with a gun to help them stay safe due to expected violence, without their permission or knowledge, and 3 guys chase me out of the bar, I still made a choice to break the law. No matter how many cops give me water, I still chose to break those laws. All 4 of us made choices we should be held accountable for but since I had the gun they died. My choice didn't bring imminent harm upon myself, but I did take a calculated risk. I knew I couldn't legally carry a gun there, and that there was violence. I would expect to be held accountable for that choice in some way. "You chase a guy who has a gun?? And get shot.. Duude,, that is on You." I agree. If I don't run after guys with guns I greatly reduce my chances of being shot by those guys. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/14/21 at 15:00:42 Sharpened flagpoles, baseball bats, and bearspray are not weapons.... A skateboard?... now that's a weapon. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/14/21 at 16:34:02 You were fine with Ashley Babbit getting shot for climbing through a window so surely a pervert hitting someone is fair game right? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by MnSpring on 11/14/21 at 18:29:11 4E6E6C64796E0B0 wrote:
And you say, "Banning a Red Car, Will stop bank robbery, Cause a Red car was used in one" Is a 'Bad' scenario/comparison ????? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/15/21 at 08:17:35 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
If someone is coming thru your bedroom window, you have the right to defend yourself. On a public street, it's little different. The very act of illegal entry is a threat. The act of being on a street is not. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by MnSpring on 11/15/21 at 09:50:45 4157405D45505D46320 wrote:
Are you saying: that if a person, is on a Public Street, and said: “Give me your Wallet, and the the keys to your S-40” Nothing you can do about it ? Is that why, you do not have, (or want) a Firearm ? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/15/21 at 09:57:23 Watching the prosecution closing. Compelling argument. I think Kyle may be in trouble. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/15/21 at 10:08:46 3D2B3C21392C213A4E0 wrote:
If someone is coming thru your bedroom window, you have the right to defend yourself. On a public street, it's little different. The very act of illegal entry is a threat. The act of being on a street is not.[/quote] If someone is kicking you in the head, you have my permission to do what you gotta do. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/15/21 at 10:10:55 2137203D25303D26520 wrote:
A 17 year old lies about being an EMT to impress people and that’s your argument to convict him from staying alive? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/15/21 at 10:12:19 7B6D7A677F6A677C080 wrote:
If someone is coming thru your bedroom window, you have the right to defend yourself. On a public street, it's little different. The very act of illegal entry is a threat. The act of being on a street is not.[/quote] Another false equivalency. The differences are several. Both of her hands were visible because she was climbing in. There were witnesses everywhere and several armed men. She never acted dangerous and threatening. Had she presented a weapon,, different story. A homeowner has every reason to be fearful of an intruder. You Know your scenario is a total failure as justification for killing her. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/15/21 at 14:21:17 was on a plane but listened to much of the defense closing argument. I chuckled out loud with the Defense Attorney called these guys heroes and that they were trying to rush in to stop an active shooter. The defense attorney is going now, he's from nearby Racine, and he's destroying the Defense argument. In fact he said the Defense Attorney flat out lied in his closing. I've been involved in two large mass incidents and a few smaller ones where there was a lot of violent actions going on and things happen quickly and you are in your own little world. During a high school basketball game, multiple fans of the other team came out of the stands during a shoving incident on the court and a full scale fight broke out. The whole thing went on for 3 or 4 minutes but it simultaneously felt like only a couple seconds or for hours at the same time. Weird. If that were filmed and broken down frame by frame, you could paint any individual event into however you want it. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/15/21 at 14:44:07 e defense attorney is going now, he's from nearby Racine, and he's destroying the Defense argument. In fact he said the Defense Attorney flat out lied in his closing. I got Kunfewzed. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/15/21 at 20:06:22 "I've been involved in two large mass incidents and a few smaller ones where there was a lot of violent actions going on and things happen quickly and you are in your own little world. During a high school basketball game, multiple fans of the other team came out of the stands during a shoving incident on the court and a full scale fight broke out. The whole thing went on for 3 or 4 minutes but it simultaneously felt like only a couple seconds or for hours at the same time. Weird. If that were filmed and broken down frame by frame, you could paint any individual event into however you want it." That's a pretty good description. Time means nothing in high volatility events but if you are just watching it's all pretty simple. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/21 at 03:36:20 I still have this perfect image after, 45 years, of my friend, coincidentally whose name was also Kyle, standing there and somebody coming at him from behind and hitting him with a huge roundhouse punch right to the jar. But, I could not tell you what was happening to my left or right which very well could have been even more severe but I was focused only on one little incident right in front of me which took a fraction of a second. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/21 at 03:39:45 I’ve never been on a jury so I can only imagine what goes on but if they take some time without the emotion from the attorneys present, and they analyze the evidence in front of them, along with the closing arguments, I can’t believe that they would convict Rittenhouse. Remember, they have to convict on the first charge, Rosenblum, or all the other charges don’t come in to play at all. I’m not sure of the legal matter behind that but that’s what the defense attorney said and the prosecutor did not object so I assume that’s the case. If they find self-defense in that case everything else disappears. This is the guy that was chasing him and throwing something at him right before a guy behind him fired a gun. I can’t see how they fault Rittenhouse. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/16/21 at 07:59:04 102225343322350A26352C470 wrote:
So now, a plastic bag of toiletries is a weapon?... Silly rabbit... Funny,.. for all the attacks, with a plastic bag, skateboard, punches, flying kick to the face,... Kyle had no injuries, scrapes, marks, or bruises, and was not treated for any injuries. The standard is eminent threat of death or severe bodily harm. It's not there. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/21 at 11:59:01 Fear for your life is not dependent on first being injured. He was being attacked with a skateboard and approached by a man with a pistol. He was on his back, and being hit in the head with a skateboard. You Have seen the pictures, Riiight? If that was YOU, why would you think they were only gonna give you a black eye? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/16/21 at 13:03:49 Yes, but that was the second incident... after he had already shot an unarmed man 4 times and the crowd was trying to stop him. He was leaving a crime scene where witnesses had just seen him kill a guy. If they had let him go,.. we may never have seen him again. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/21 at 13:34:34 I have not seen the first one. Can you help me find that? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by MnSpring on 11/16/21 at 13:34:56 5D4B5C41594C415A2E0 wrote:
You are in fear of your life. Someone is throwing things at you. You don't know what they are. But you, expect, that person to stop, look for one of those items, say, 'oh only a tube of toothpaste' "Silly Wabbit" is RIGHT. !!!!! |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by eau de sauvage on 11/16/21 at 13:58:38 Well he's pretty obviously guilty of something, but I haven't been following the trial because in typical American fashion it looks like some daytime TV melodrama with a whacky judge, hard to believe it's real. However if he isn't charged with something then it looks to the outside observer as very peculiar as if anyone underage or not can easily get an assault rifle and travel around doing vigilante stuff. I admit there's a certain Wild West romanticism about it, but it's still troubling. I'm guessing this is why the Judge allowed a basket of alternate charges. But the defence team got the low level firearm charge thrown out on a technicality, so that is not going to help Rittenhouse because if the jury wants to give him a slap the next lowest level is a step up in seriousness. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/21 at 14:12:12 But the defence team got the low level firearm charge thrown out on a technicality, You mean because the claim he was illegally in possession of a weapon WASN'T actually illegal THAT technicality? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/16/21 at 14:30:49 It was still purchased for him in a "Straw man" plot. That is illegal, and the friend that bought it for him is being charged. The fact that the charge was dropped in this case, might mean he can be charged later without double jeopardy. ... but it hardly matters. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by MnSpring on 11/16/21 at 15:09:40 495F48554D58554E3A0 wrote:
YET, When it is done by Obama and Holder, Several Hundred Times. "... it hardly matters ..." And How many of those occurrences happened in/near, The town on Tucson AZ ???????? ... but it hardly matters ... that the prosecutor/s has stated: "Charges have been filed against a 19-year-old man who prosecutors allege purchased and supplied the gun used by 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse" |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/21 at 15:19:19 7264736E76636E75010 wrote:
They were trying to stop him all right. They were trying to stop him and kill him which is what they were trying to do in the first place. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by verslagen1 on 11/16/21 at 17:08:23 I think rosenbaum was evil and psychotic and karma bit him in the a$$ good riddance. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/21 at 17:17:59 2432253820353823570 wrote:
So now, a plastic bag of toiletries is a weapon?... Silly rabbit... Funny,.. for all the attacks, with a plastic bag, skateboard, punches, flying kick to the face,... Kyle had no injuries, scrapes, marks, or bruises, and was not treated for any injuries. The standard is eminent threat of death or severe bodily harm. It's not there. [/quote] Hey Sew, does a woman have to show scrapes and bruises as evidence of sexual assault? Rape? Or, to paraphrase as the defense attorneys put it, every woman gets assaulted or raped a little now and then, that’s no reason to kill the guy, just punch him in the nose. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/17/21 at 07:40:54 0E3C3B2A2D3C2B14382B32590 wrote:
If she's going to shoot him 4 times with an AR15,.. I'd say yes. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Eegore on 11/17/21 at 09:53:53 ""If she's going to shoot him 4 times with an AR15,.. I'd say yes."" You really think a woman has to be physically harmed to protect herself with a rifle? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/17/21 at 12:24:12 7563746971646972060 wrote:
If she's going to shoot him 4 times with an AR15,.. I'd say yes.[/quote] Don’t know but guessing you’re not a father of a daughter… |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/17/21 at 13:22:00 48686A627F680D0 wrote:
Naaa,... verbal abuse is enough to allow her to plug a guy 4 times. Gosar,... better watch out. Mn,... you listening? ;D |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/21 at 13:22:42 As much as lefties operate on Feeelz How is it possible to not understand Feeling like You are in Danger? You Do know that if someone lands a knockout shot,they can stomp you to death before you wake up and shoot them, right? It's not about already having been injured. It's about looking at the situation and seeing it as threatening.. Having FEAR for your life or serious injury. I survived Odessa Texas in the early80's. I used my knife twice. Once backed four guys off,the other time the guy punched me as I sat in my car. I blocked the punch with my knife. It still bruised the end of my nose. He was in the ER for so many hours we went home. The towel in the floorboard was soaked with blood. Saw him years later at a gas station. He had a scar between the middle and ring finger that went to his wrist. I was done getting gas as soon as I knew who he was. Odessa was the Murder Capital in 83. Single white boys, early twenties, were predominantly the ones getting killed. I know what being afraid is. That was my daily life. But I NEVER had a night as terrifying as he survived. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/17/21 at 13:27:57 Good thing you didn't have a skateboard or a bag of toiletries.... :o |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by Serowbot on 11/17/21 at 13:40:53 Rittenhouse lawyers ask judge to declare mistrial over video https://www.yahoo.com/news/rittenhouse-jurors-return-day-2-045521050.html "Kyle Rittenhouse's attorneys asked the judge on Wednesday to declare a mistrial, saying they received an inferior copy of a key video from prosecutors and would have approached things differently if they had received the higher quality video earlier." Now,.. if the defense says they would have "approached things differently" if they has seen the higher quality video,... doesn't that mean it shows something they didn't realize was there? Something incriminating? Like Rittenhouse pointing the gun directly at people? The video was probably sent to them over e-mail and the server compressed it without their knowledge. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/21 at 14:48:40 You don't think a skateboard is a deadly weapon? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by MnSpring on 11/17/21 at 15:14:43 7F697E637B6E63780C0 wrote:
I'll just add to my Will; 'If I die of suspicious circumstances, Check with Bot' (BTW, sitting at home alone, with a beer, watching a, 'adult', channel, would probably not be a good Alibi) The UL, DFI, FDS, Socialists are very good at, threatening when someone does not agree with them. '... we will burn down this city if you do not say Guilty on all counts ...' Remember when all those Riots broke out, and Cities were Burnt, and Looted, when OJ was found Not Guilty ? |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/18/21 at 12:08:32 Interesting headline in the news: Man dies after being hit in head with skateboard during fight in Santa Ana Starbucks |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by verslagen1 on 11/18/21 at 12:11:38 635156474051467955465F340 wrote:
not the 1st time, seems to be the weapon of choice while on the street. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by eau de sauvage on 11/18/21 at 15:56:36 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
No, that was a perfectly legal decision, I was just making the point that it doesn't help Rittenhouse to have that charge dropped because as I said in my post, he's obviously due a slap of some kind and it removes the least serious option. Better to leave that on the table in case the jury is not comfortable with a complete exoneration. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/18/21 at 17:39:12 Do You even understand what you are suggesting? Gee,I'm want to slap him with SOMETHING, but it's Obviously self defense,, too bad the judge ruined a shot at a weapons charge that is actually bogus. |
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Title: Re: Guilty? Post by WebsterMark on 11/19/21 at 04:52:11 687A6E6D7A7C7E1B0 wrote:
No, that was a perfectly legal decision, I was just making the point that it doesn't help Rittenhouse to have that charge dropped because as I said in my post, he's obviously due a slap of some kind and it removes the least serious option. Better to leave that on the table in case the jury is not comfortable with a complete exoneration.[/quote] On the other hand, from an analytical point of view, if that’s removed from the equation, it removes any question about Rittenhouse’s presence. If you compare this to Ashley Babbitt for example, no she didn’t have a gun, but she was illegally trespassing. Had there been a trial, which of course there wasn’t, but have there been one and that charge got dropped and the reason for her presence wasn’t debatable, strictly from an analytical point of view, that shooting looks different. But none of that changes my point of view. If you go to a BLM/antifa riots, you give up any legal recourse for MOST of your actions. what happens, happens. You put yourself in that position. Which is why, had that guy who killed Ashley Babbitt been tried, I’m not sure he should’ve been convicted of anything. As I said before about this case, I would’ve buried those two dead dudes, sent Rittenhouse and the one armed guy home and that would’ve been the end of it. The real crime is whoever was in charge of the National Guard or police didn’t respond with overwhelming numbers quickly enough. You think we would’ve learned this by now. When BLM/antifa start gathering together and we know it’s going to turn into one of these riots, overwhelm the area with National Guard, police and bust heads. Literally bust heads open. We got to stop this crap. Last summer was a joke and we’re gonna pay for that for a long time if we don’t do something different. |
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