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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> PWK? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1635134189 Message started by Dan Stafford on 10/24/21 at 20:56:29 |
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Title: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 10/24/21 at 20:56:29 I’ve been looking at these carburetors, how does the linkage hook up for throttle or is this thing solely operated by vacuum? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Fast 650 on 10/24/21 at 22:36:00 The cable goes into the top of the carb and attaches to the slide. It requires either one of Lancer's cables for the VM kit or modifying the stock cable to work with the PWK. The second gotcha with the PWK is that the hose from the airbox to the carburetor is too short, and it needs to be turned backward with the big end going to the PWK. Cut a short piece of PVC pipe to go from the airbox to the small end of that hose and you are set. DragBikeMike's testing showed that you will need the cylindrical air filter with it for best results because the stock filter is too restrictive for the increased flow. That can be fitted within the airbox, see his evolution of a hotrod thread for the details on that. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 10/26/21 at 14:21:02 The cable hooks into this little contraption that threads into the slide. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 10/26/21 at 14:22:46 Like this. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 10/26/21 at 14:24:18 This plastic sleeve on the spring then captures the cable so it can't pop out of the contraption. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 10/26/21 at 14:27:08 But you have to hook the cable when the little contraption is installed in the slide, and then drop the sleeve and spring down over the cable and contraption. It's a juggling act to say the least. It's kinda tight down there between the contraption and the slide. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 10/26/21 at 14:28:30 Once the cable is hooked, you drop the plastic sleeve and spring over the contraption and cable. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 10/26/21 at 14:30:02 You need a 6mm socket to remove the contraption. You have to take the contraption out in order to adjust the slide needle clip. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 11/05/21 at 03:51:38 Good morning all, Sorry it’s been a minute I just got back from a work trip to the West Coast,(sorry Ver, my rental truck caught a flat in Truckee in the snow.) and by the way did you guys know that they do not put tire tools in rental vehicles because I didn’t! So on this carburetor is it recommended to swap out? I just thought I would have heard of more people doing it? And yes everybody does rock on this forum! Very helpful. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 11/05/21 at 18:37:17 Dan, it all depends on your skill level. If you have limited experience and skill, then the Mikuni VM that Lancer sells is your best choice. The kit he puts together has everything you need to install the carburetor, and there are lots of forum members running the VM, so help and advice will be plentiful. The Keihin PWK works great but you have to gather up the parts piecemeal. It's a lot cheaper but you have to do the extra work gathering parts. The throttle cable is also is a bit more difficult to set up. Both of the carbs work extremely well. The Keihin flows a bit more air so you get just a bit more power. The Mikuni is a bit more versatile in the tuning department because it has a removable needle jet and main air bleed. However both carbs are very easy to dial in. I have run the VM38, PWK38 and PWK36 all with excellent results. This post will give you some insight on how the VM & PWK compare to each other. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1585461605 And this post will provide a little more detail on installing a PWK38 on a stock engine. It will also give you a good baseline for jets and an idea of what to expect in terms of performance. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1625732492 No matter what you choose, stock, VM or PWK, I'm sure the folks on this forum stand ready to help you get it up & runnin. Good luck, Mike |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/01/21 at 00:44:25 !!!oh yeah!! The slow boat from Japan finally has arrived!!! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/01/21 at 08:14:22 Mine is supposed to arrive today as well! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/02/21 at 16:31:19 Hey Dan, who did you get your PWK from? I can see it has a stamp or etching on the side that indicates it is a 40mm. I wouldn't mind an additional 2 millimeters. Can you measure the bore and see if it is 40mm all the way through? Not just at the outlet but ALL the way through. Also, does your PWK have a notch in the needle jet hood, like this? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/02/21 at 16:44:07 Mine didn't come with any stamp indicating size. You are right, there seems to be a lot of variation when buying these. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/02/21 at 17:19:20 1/ second Gentalmen I just saw this |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/02/21 at 17:27:36 Yeah yeah I know i spelled gentleman wrong. Looks like a legit bleed to me. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/02/21 at 17:29:03 decent pic of it |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/02/21 at 17:32:14 Here’s the pic of the box |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/02/21 at 17:34:36 I think this is the most important label of them all! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/02/21 at 18:03:31 Mr. Mike, All I did was follow your bread crumbs from your post. AMAJOHN… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/03/21 at 17:29:03 4A4C433F3D3A3E0E0 wrote:
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/03/21 at 20:57:06 Where did everybody go? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by LANCER on 12/04/21 at 04:22:08 Seems there is a sleepy bunch. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/04/21 at 05:39:58 Lol… I couldn’t stand it last night so I went ahead and started. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/04/21 at 05:42:16 Mr. Lancer, I might be picking your brain over the next couple weeks if you don’t mind. For example which jet kit should I order? I think drag bike Mike mentioned one and I can’t find the conversation. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/04/21 at 05:46:19 Does the elbow from the carb to the filter have to be rigid? Or can I use Like a high-performance silicone hose? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Fast 650 on 12/04/21 at 07:33:38 063A3736273637203B3C3D520 wrote:
If you are mounting the filter inside the airbox as DBM did, you will need a rigid elbow. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/04/21 at 08:15:18 jetsrus.com is where DBM suggested to buy the jets. You may have missed it, but DBM wanted to know where you bought the carb from. Seems there is a lot of variations with these carbs, may depend on where they are purchased from. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/04/21 at 16:37:20 I purchased this one via Amazon |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/04/21 at 16:39:15 JFG RACING VIA AMAZON |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/05/21 at 00:32:54 Thanks for all the pics Dan. You got your PWK from the same outfit I got mine from, JFG racing. I see you have the notch in the hood, but your box doesn't make any mention of "38mm" (like mine & Sneezy's), and you have that "40" etched on the side of your body. You are right, hookin that cable up is a real tricky job. Unhookin the throttle grip end makes it a lot easier to juggle the slide end. I suggest you take a bunch of baseline data and post it. Remove the main jet and pilot jet, tell us what size they are. Remove the idle mixture screw. Measure the fixed air bleed. It should be about .075". The shank of a #49 drill bit should go in, but the shank of a 5/64" should not go in. This is the main air bleed. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/05/21 at 00:38:02 Check your float level. Mine is about parallel with the gasket surface, just a very slight incline. Is your about like this? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/05/21 at 00:45:20 Measure your needle jet. Mine is .111". A #35 drill bit fits loose, a #34 just fits, and a #33 won't go. If your needle jet is the same size as mine, then a DGK slide needle works excellent. The slide needle mine was delivered with worked OK. The DGK works excellent. This is the jet in question. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/05/21 at 01:01:18 You probably want to have a #35 pilot jet in hand (along with #38 & #40). It is only available in genuine Keihin, the generics only go down to #38. One thing I found is that the slide needle affects idle mixture. Even with the #35 pilot jet, idle is a bit rich. Not bad, but a little fatter than I like. The DGK slide needle helps with that. Of course, that's all dependent on the size of the needle jet, if it's larger or smaller than .111", then you will have to figure out which slide needle is appropriate. There's a good chance that the as-delivered slide needle will work OK. If it gets to that LMK, I have a bunch of info on the slide needles. If you reach the limit of patience with that throttle cable, the Barnetts that Lancer sells for the VMs work good (at least on my 2016 LS they work good). Take heed on the ABS elbow. See my comments in my other report. The ABS falls apart. I switched to PVC. Hope that holds up better. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/05/21 at 01:59:10 Right on! I wittry and get those measurements to ya shortly! Drinkin my joe.. :o :o |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/05/21 at 02:02:47 I also work with PVC regularly, sched 80 pvc waaaay better that brittle ABS |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/05/21 at 21:09:19 Sorry fellas, and ladies as well if you’re listening, I got a leave on a weeklong work trip again tomorrow. Good news is, when I get home my canon filter my rear bearing and my jets it will be in wahoo. I got to ask though what is with all of the pink vent tubing that comes with the 40 mm? I noticed in your picture you have a couple of them capped off? I was out in my shop this morning in my pajamas at 6 o’clock installing the carburetor lol like a kid I couldn’t wait and yes it completely ran like crap.. I think her with her for a little bit but I think it was real Rich… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/05/21 at 21:41:23 Jetting is everything. Well, imho... everything I have read from different motorcycle forums, and experience, this has to be right. And takes the most trial and error. On my Kawi I am wrestling with sync'ing the carbs (inline four). Fun stuff! More trial and error, but more on a mechanical side. It boils down to feel with threaded adjusters. I am thinking this single should be a lot simpler. In theory, anyway! :o |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/07/21 at 12:04:50 Yep, that sucker comes with hoses all over the place. It sort of resembles a plate of spaghetti. I think it's a dirt bike carb. Keihin refers to it as a "quad vent". I think all the vents are intended to help keep the engine from filling up with fuel when the vehicle is laying on its side in a mud bog. You can cap off the nipples on the side. Like this. Just use the top nipples. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/07/21 at 12:06:19 The top vent nipples are perfect for the Savage. You can run the vent hoses up into the frame just like the stock setup. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/07/21 at 12:07:23 It makes for a tidy installation. Looks factory. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/07/21 at 12:09:33 The hose off the floatbowl is the overflow. I just route that down behind the engine. Make sure it is not over the exhaust pipe or muffler. You don't want it dumping fuel on the hot exhaust. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/07/21 at 13:27:36 Good deal, also I wanted to ask you did you buy the long sweeping Street 90 or a regular street 90 even though I’m on the road for work this is what I picked up this far… The long sweep is just about a half inch longer than a regular 90 I believe… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Dan Stafford on 12/07/21 at 13:31:27 Also I would be much obliged if you were able to tell me the exact length of your throttle cable? Did you buy it or modify it? I keep looking on Amazon the ones for our particular carburetor are like 70 some inches long nowhere in the neighborhood of 32 to 36”… but I think you said your bike was a 16 mines an ‘01 |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/12/21 at 19:48:39 OK, didn’t know if I should start a new post or not however the Pkwy PWK is installed. It came with a 170/55 set up on the Jets. It started and ran but like crap. Mr. Mike, I was wondering about the jet set up I forget what you said. I did the K&N mod like you did… May be a little lean I mean if I get after it and then roll off ,I got some Poppin… feels under powered as well. I’m getting a slight pop at gear change as well. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/12/21 at 19:58:56 Yeah I knowshe needs a bath.. and don’t make fun of my fender bracket…LOL |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/12/21 at 19:59:54 Carb |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/13/21 at 19:39:22 Dan, your jets are way too big. If you go through this post you will see that I suggested you run something like a 140 main jet and a 38 pilot jet (somewhere around those sizes). Review this entire post and the others I referred you to. Your current jetting is grossly wrong. I can see from your pictures that you still have the stock clamp on your intake manifold. That clamp won’t allow you to correctly tighten the manifold to the carb. I provided specific info on that clamp in the posts I referred you to. Get the correct clamp. If you don’t use the right clamp it’s gonna leak and run lousy. In regard to the throttle cable, I previously mentioned that the Barnett cables Lancer sells for the Mikuni VM will work with the Keihin PWK. To use that Barnett cable you may have to lengthen the slot in your twist grip to allow use of the second hole. Again, review the posts I referenced to get more details. Over the years the cables have changed so the cable is “model year specific”. That assumes no one has changed your twist grip assembly. In answer to your question about the elbow, yes, you want to use a “street elbow”. It’s the one with the large radius. All the specifics including manufacturer and part number were already provided. All this stuff has been covered before. You are going too fast. You must have a good understanding of what you are doing before you undertake a job like this. I get that you are anxious to get it runnin but that’s a recipe for failure. Slow down. Read all the old posts several times. Carefully look over all the pictures I provided. Make sure you understand everything. Ask questions before you put it together. You didn’t tell us what’s size main air bleed, or what size needle jet. You have to check those with pin gages or numbered drill bits. We can’t help you get it right without all the info. What groove is your slide needle clip in? Are there any markings on the slide needle (numbers, letters, etc.)? How does your float level look? Post a pic of the float level. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/13/21 at 19:55:41 Dang, Yeah my third set of jets is on the way. I ordered the 100 through 120 something on accident, then I go to 155 through 178 no Bueno. So the 142 is on the way I have a 35 pilot in there now. I’m gonna have to take the darn thing back out to verify the Needle. Sorry to be frustrating. And yes you’re right I just wanna ride it. So right now I have a 35 pilot 155 mean the 35 pilot is good idles great. I guess I’m bout to invest in pin gauges. I’ll see what harbor freight has to offer as far as drillbits. And yes I read your post about 57 times. Once again I apologize. And the 40 mm upon receiving it had a 170 Main and a 55 pilot for the record. And if I was looking at your pictures correctly mine has an extender if you will for the main jet. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/13/21 at 20:01:48 Will post a pic tomorrow of float, I already did the hacksaw to the plastic on the throttle lever. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/13/21 at 21:58:25 DBM - you are a fountain of knowledge. I am soaking all this up for when I get my motor back together. Theduderino - pay attention. Slow down and do it right. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/15/21 at 19:13:21 Here is the “extender” i was referring too…DBM, im taking heed. Carb coming out this weekend, I appreciate yalls help.. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/16/21 at 00:33:23 Duderino, what is that???? Extender???? Where did it come from??? Can you post a picture that shows the "extender" installed? I've never seen anything like that in a PWK. Maybe you have a removable needle jet. If so, it doesn't look like a standard PWK main jet will fit. Sure would be nice if we had some pics of the inside of your PWK. Hey Sneezy, does your's have anything that looks like this so called "extender"? Also, Duderino, you want to put a short section of 2" PVC pipe in the female socket on your street elbow. Instead of stretching your rubber connector over the OD of the female socket you would simply slip the rubber connector over the short section of pipe sticking out of the elbow. That will make removal and installation a lot easier, and also position the elbow and filter perfectly rather than have it pulled so far forward. I'm amazed you didn't tear the rubber coupling trying to stretch it over the elbow. Like this only yours will be white PVC. See the section of 2" pipe sticking out of the socket. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 03:21:11 Ok, More to follow this weekend, but my main jet threads into the longer piece. Then the longer piece threads into carb. Also there is a piece of pipe as an extension installed. The battery box needs a little mod… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 03:38:50 I guess it is a removable needle jet? But I couldn’t stand it so before work dropped the drain nut…. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 03:42:16 DBM, That’s the part I was referring to that looks a little different than yours. It looks like your jet is the only thing that threads in right there. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 03:58:16 OK I couldn’t stand it I had to drop the whole bowl before I left for work. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 04:05:51 Well Hells bells, removable needle JEt… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 04:11:25 Here’s another pic of it not all the way threaded in… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/16/21 at 04:18:37 Needle jet: the needle jet/nozzle, varies the fuel/air mixture up to 3/4 throttle. How it overlaps with the jet needle depends on the needle jet orifice i.d., air bleed holes, and type of nozzle screen. Most modern japanese carburetors use a fixed needle jet/nozzle assembly which cannot be removed. If your carburetor has a removable needle jet/nozzle please contact the manufacturer in order to decipher the nozzle code. It is also not advisable to calculate how rich or lean a needle jet is using exclusively the nozzle inside diameter to needle outside diameter discharge area.… oh lord now what lol… revisit this later got to leave for work. Talk soon |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/16/21 at 09:34:52 DBM - I have not disassembled my PWK yet. As soon as I do, I will update here as to whether or not I have a fixed or removable needle jet. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/16/21 at 23:02:48 Wow! Thanks for the pics Duderino. Very informative. You clearly have a removable needle jet, and it looks factory. I'm gonna start searching for a source. Pretty cool. Now you are faced with a problem. I suspect all those main jets you purchased are not gonna fit. The jets might thread into the needle jet OK, but I think they might stick down too far and interfere with the access plug in the bottom of the float bowl. Try installing one of those long main jets. Then see if the bowl plug will thread all the way in. Obviously, you don't wanna force the plug. If it hits the main jet and you keep turning the plug it will certainly break something. If it threads all the way in, then take it back out and use modeling clay to check how much clearance there is between the bottom of the main jet and the plug. If the jet gets too close to the plug it will restrict fuel flow and you could run lean up on the top end. The jets you currently have on hand should be part number 99101-357-XXX (the XXX being the jet size, like 120, 130 150, etc.). A possible substitute might be 99101-393-XXX. It's a lot shorter and has the same thread diameter as the 99101-357-XXX jets. Don't know about the thread pitch. Only way to find out is buy one and see if it fits. Then you need to come up with jets in the correct size. The #142 worked pretty good in my stock engine setup. The hole size in that #142 is about .055". If you are lucky, Keihin uses the same size designation for both the long and the short jets. Pretty crazy stuff. :o |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/17/21 at 04:45:38 DBM, That’s just the thing, we ordered ours from the same place. I got a 48 pilot installed and a 158 main. Rode it last night, it’s just a little bit rich on the top end, I suspect I need to move the needle clip down one notch. Meaning lean it up a little bit. Because I also ran it before that with a 50 pilot and a 162 Main. It was a little rich. But like I said, this weekend carb is coming out and rear wheel is coming off. Found a good little read as well I’ll post it also in the technical department. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5be4d5b35ffd2095efa9bdff/t/5bf1a09b6d2a7391b5a84730/1542561947962/KeihinCarbJetting-2015.pdf |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/17/21 at 04:48:05 Well I also went to the keihin site, Mine is definitely a knock off. According to them right below words at 40 mm there supposed to be a serial number there isn’t on mine… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/17/21 at 04:49:44 No cereal |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/18/21 at 13:54:23 Apparently mine is a knock off as well since I have no serial number on mine below the 40mm. I finally got around to opening up mine. Absolutely no jet markings whatsoever. The needle has the clip in the center of five grooves. From the shoulder in the needle the length is 46.00mm, and the taper starts at 2.66mm and reduces to 1.77mm. Other than that, I have no idea what any of the jets measure on mine. Pin gages are not cheap, and I am! Looks like I will try some drill sizes and report back. I posting all the detail pictures on my build thread. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/18/21 at 14:31:48 Reply #48 Duderino said "So right now I have a 35 pilot 155 mean the 35 pilot is good idles great.". Dude, why do you now have a 48 pilot and a 158 main jet? I caution you again, those stock Keihin jets are too long. They stick too far down into the bowl drain plug. If they get too close to the bottom of the plug it will restrict flow through the jet. Since you can install the drain plug all the way, I assume the jet is not hitting, so that’s a good thing, but if the jet gets too close to the plug it will throttle flow. At high speed, you will starve the engine for fuel, which can result in all sorts of melted parts. Check the clearance between the bottom of the jet and the plug. I personally would switch to shorter jets. That’s why I provided you with an alternate part number and the hole size (in thousandths of an inch) for a #140 Keihin main jet. You have already figured out that you are dealing with a knock-off. The jets that came in the carb are a big question mark. Especially the main jet which is obviously some sort of custom piece that the knock-off artist came up with. You have no way of knowing what the #170 corresponds to. Is it millimeters (like 1.7mm)? I suspect you will find that you get the best performance with a main jet with a hole close to .055” (1.4mm). That’s around a #140 standard Keihin main jet. If you have to install a #158 main jet to get it running close to good, it indicates that the drain plug might be restricting flow into the main jet. I think you should switch to shorter main jets. If it was idling great with that #35 pilot jet, why did you switch to a #48??? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 15:16:25 DBM, Yeah that was the other day when I had no idea what was what. I currently have a 50 pilot in it, and 160 Main. My jets had markings when it shipped, like I said before it was a 170 Main and a 55 pilot jet. I think it was running lean the other day, and then Read another post. My 142 Main showed up today via post office. The ones that were shipped in it were taller jet as well. The ones I have purchased are the same size. When I had the 38 pilot in there, it didn’t want to idle right. And the night before, I was farting around and switch to a 48 after i had been running a 50, Friday morning I thought I was going to be slick and jump on it real quick to run up to the store to get a pack of smokes, dropped it in to first and when I let the clutch out it wanted to fall on its face. I had to feather the clutch in first gear to get it back home. Needless to say I did not get cigarettes. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 15:26:40 It’s raining here in Louisiana sorry about the background noise. Here’s a short video of it running. https://youtube.com/shorts/z3FN4J1C00E?feature=share |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 15:50:24 Here goes the 142… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 15:53:39 so possibly the numbers on these aftermarket or knock off jets could possibly mean squat? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 15:54:39 OK tomorrow morning first thing I’m going to put a 35 pilot, and a 142 Main and I’ll see what happens…. Also going to measure the distance between a jet and bottom of the bowl. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:00:19 Here are some measurements… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:01:24 Measurements |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:02:16 More measurements |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:03:07 And more measurements |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:06:41 I guess based on math, the jet has clearance of about eight or 9 mm inside of the bowl. Given the thickness of the material at the bottom of the bowl, I measured the threaded portion. So maybe it’s the same thickness at the bottom. I’m also going to verify what notch i am on, on the needle in the morning. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:28:39 OK more like four or 5 mm between the tip of the jet and the bottom of the bowl. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/18/21 at 18:32:33 OK last one for the night |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/19/21 at 14:54:36 DBM, First off I must say you are a Jedi master. Update: Installed a 35 pilot/142 main, she’s pretty much purring like a kitten. I feel like it could use a little more on the top end but it’s almost feeling like I gained another gear. Off of idle and all through the mid range is perfect. There may be occasional backfire if I’m Getting after it and going through the gears. A very slight pop from 3rd to 4th. Also put needle jet on fourth groove(rich)… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/20/21 at 11:16:32 That's great Dude. Glad you got it dialed. I don't wanna sound like a broken record, but I still think you should switch to a shorter main jet. This is a sketch of the PWK drain plug. The cavity in the plug is 13mm deep. The distance between the top of the plug and the flange face is 9mm. That means the bottom of the cavity is only 4mm below the sealing surface on the bottom of the float bowl. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/20/21 at 11:20:29 Your picture shows your main jet sticking out of the float bowl about 3 or 4mm. DANGER! The picture of your drain plug shows a gap between the plug flange and the sealing surface on the bottom of the bowl. DANGER! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/20/21 at 11:35:07 I recall a member named Dan Stafford reporting he had purchased a PWK. Do I have that messed up? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/20/21 at 12:23:19 Hey boss, this is Dan (The Dude) sorry I change my profile name I thought I was weird but being the only one with my name out there lol. AnyWho, do you think that might be what is causing my top end lean? Lord knows I’m gonna have enough jets for everybody lol, I have three sets at the house, and I’m gonna order what you were talking about. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/20/21 at 12:29:15 Also DBm, Sorry I’m driving, why would they send a jet that was in it like that if it wasn’t gonna work? I know ,why don’t I just get out the hacksaw and take about an eighth off of it lol .. just kidding |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/20/21 at 13:42:53 Why would "they" send a knock off with the parts on mine? Slide plating all wonky, a cracked float, crappy bowl sealing surface... it's a $30 carburetor! You get what you pay for. So I replace a few parts. Still ahead financially with this in the long run. You shouldn't have an extended jet with that drain cap. My jet is well inside the bowl , not protruding out. Makes sense it would start to starve at full throttle with only 4 mm clearance. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/21/21 at 16:52:36 Actually Sneezy, there’s probably only 1mm clearance at best, but more likely that the floor of the plug cavity is actually touching the main jet. If you look close at the Dude’s picture, you can see a gap between the plug and the bowl. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/21/21 at 16:56:34 Dude, there shouldn’t be a gap when the plug is installed. Don’t try to tighten the plug to close up your gap. You will break something. It sure looks like your plug is hitting the main jet. That of course prevents fuel from getting to the jet. In post #83 you asked: “AnyWho, do you think that might be what is causing my top end lean?” Yes, of course. The plug is obstructing the jet. Get shorter jets like I suggested. Get them in the range of #138 to #148 so you can tune it. In post #84 you asked: “why would they send a jet that was in it like that if it wasn’t gonna work?” Who is “they”? You are the one that ordered the jets. We’ve been saying all along that your PWK is different. It has a removeable needle jet. That’s a kinda cool upgrade but it also necessitates the use of shorter main jets, not standard PWK main jets. If you order replacement main jets for a PWK you will get regular PWK main jets, but you don’t have a regular PWK. The removeable needle jet sticks out more than a standard PWK, so you need to use shorter main jets. The supplier of the knock-off carb delivered it with a shorter main jet, because it needs a shorter main jet. Sneezy hit the nail on the head when he said “it's a $30 carburetor! You get what you pay for. So I replace a few parts. Still ahead financially with this in the long run.” Check your bowl drain plug. Wouldn’t surprise me if you can see marks on the floor of the plug cavity caused by contact between the plug and jet. Look in here. Check for marks caused by the jet. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/21/21 at 16:57:19 This is how your main jet should look when you get the right length. It shouldn’t stick out of the float bowl. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/21/21 at 16:58:00 This is how your drain plug should look when things are correct. There shouldn’t be any gap between the flange on the plug and the bottom of the float bowl. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/21/21 at 16:59:20 Stay safe out there on the road. Holiday season. Ya gotta get home all in one piece. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/22/21 at 02:47:44 DBM, Good morning, I think I wasn’t clear about the jet originally. I was referring to the jet that came installed in the carburetor. At that time I was trying to get a 140 something that I didn’t have. So I ordered the same style jet that was in the carburetor. Also that gap is due to an O-ring but I see what you’re saying. I’ve even thought about tapping a quarter inch plug at the bottom of the plug. But I’ve learned what being in a hurry will get you lol so I’m not doing that. The part number that you gave me was that from Jets RuS? Or is that a general part number for that style of jet? Sorry I’m new to jetting. Yep I’m ready to be home the road is not fun. At least on this trip I’m only four hours from the house. I’m in Laporte right outside of Houston. And live in Baton Rouge. Also, like you said there is a shorter style hex jet, but I’ve been looking online and it says that those are for Mukini carbs?? So I ordered a set anyway. Hopefully the thread pitch is the same. And I also ordered a regular set of Main jets with the screwdriver slit in them. He’s indicated that they were for PWK carbs… I don’t know maybe it’s my browser or I entered something wrong, but I could not bring up the Jets are us site? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/22/21 at 08:40:14 Here is a link... https://www.jetsrus.com/ |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/22/21 at 13:47:07 OK Jedi master(DBM) ;), It must hurt being right all the time! I thought those marks were from the lathe. Literally I’ve been home five minutes and I already smell like gas! Ahhh… |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/22/21 at 13:50:08 OK you too sneeze!! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 12/22/21 at 14:32:16 Always a cool feeling when you find the culprit! Me? I am still chasing culprits... :o |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/22/21 at 23:02:27 Pay dirt! That probably snuffed off the fuel flow just a bit. So, you are currently using these standard PWK jets. Note that the Jets-R-Us illustration shows that your jets are 16.5mm long and have threads with a 4.9mm major diameter. Unfortunately, the picture doesn't provide the pitch. It shows the part number for these long jets is 99101-357-XXX. The XXX is the jet size (140, 142, 145, etc.). |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/22/21 at 23:09:02 You can try these shorter jets. They are 8.5mm shorter and also have a thread diameter of 4.9mm. Again, it's unfortunate that they don't provide the pitch, but I think there's a good chance that the pitch will be the same as the longer jets. The part number for these short jets is 99101-393-XXX. Same deal, the XXX stands for the jet size. You probably should get a 138, 140, 142, 145. I don't think you will need a main jet bigger than #145 but ya never know. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 12/22/21 at 23:18:05 BTW, I have had good luck with the OEM equivalents that Jets-R-Us offers, and they are half the price of the genuine OEM jets. Your next hurdle will be jet flow. The shorter jets may not flow the same as the standard PWK jets (the long ones). So, a short #140 may flow more than a standard long #140, or it may flow less than a standard long #140, or it may flow the same as a standard long #140. Figuring out exactly what size you need is all on you. The 138 through 145 might be enough to allow you to dial in the carb, or you might need more sizes. You will have to be the Trail Blazer Dude. Be prudent, start rich, don't burn it up. Also, thanks for the pics of your plug. That is valuable historical information that will allow us to help other members in the future. No better way to explain something than a good, clear picture. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/23/21 at 14:37:40 DBM, You’re totally gonna laugh at me/scold me for this one!. I took one of the 11mm jets and a bandsaw and cut away the amount of space required to get it even with the bottom of the bowl without going into the plug. I essentially made a coupler out of a jet that’s way too big anyway. And I utilized my OEM 142 that was in the Mukini carb same thread pitch… Runs great/maybe a tad rich but I’m OK with that. Merry Christmas All! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by ohiomoto on 12/24/21 at 08:11:43 Jets R Us is a great resource until they send you the wrong parts and refuse to replace them unless you pay for return shipping. Per their policy, they won't take returns, ever. But when I asked why I should pay to return $15 worth of jets that they claim they will never resale they basically told me to F-off. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Fast 650 on 12/26/21 at 08:57:49 For a small shop that may only sell a few dozen jets per year it is cheaper for them to just eat the loss and send another order. But when you are big enough then that cost of processing returns eats into your profit margin in a hurry. I have worked in returns at a previous job and the manpower involved is a lot more than you would think. From that perspective their policy makes sense. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/29/21 at 21:36:52 Hey gang, Okay its been crazy at work. Any who, I had installed the PWK 40 mm. K&N intake. I have faught with jet selection. Currently running a 35 pilot jet and a 158 Main. I know I’m real close. No more backfire, I mean not completely. When I downshift in a hurry I get some popety pops. And if I shift correctly I don’t get the pop between gears anymore. She is pullin hard! Oh I also forgot the style of jet that I’m currently using is the long jet X version. I have another set of the short hexes in the mail. I just wanted to show a picture of the plug and get yawls opinion. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 12/29/21 at 21:38:14 Oh for the record I put a new one in this afternoon plugged it is. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 01/01/22 at 11:45:57 OK, I just ran the bike with a 145 main/ 40 pilot. :-/ Idle and off throttle is great, get up to fourth gear great but if you nail it on the top end you get nothing. This run was with the “shorter jet “. I’m going to leave the pilot, and install one of the short hex versions. TBA |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 13:37:34 Time for me to chime back in on the PWK stories. As some of you will remember, when I bought a PWK 40 from Ebay, I won the crappy carb lotto and got one in very sketchy shape. DBM and I had a lot of messaging back and forth (along with some parts), and I ordered some jet selections from Jets R US and got another rebuild kit to replace a cracked float. At this stage of my build, the carb and all the bits ended up on a shelf in a box to await the assembly of my engine. The other day while sipping on some cold beverages, the unpleasantness of my PWK experiences drifted back to the front of my mind. And I remembered how inexpensive these carbs are. Hard to complain considering the price. So in my mind it couldn't hurt to try again! This time I ordered one from JFG Racing (where DBM had gotten a couple) since he had really good luck with them. In less than a week I had another PWK 40 carb in my hands. Impressive shipping time! But... as a wise man once told me, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. This is the condition of the box as delivered.... |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 13:41:06 Nervously I opened the box, hoping that there wasn't any damage to the carb. I was really surprised to find that the carb was in that box WITHOUT ANY PADDING WHATSOEVER. It was sitting in the box inside a thin plastic bag. Sheesh! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 13:43:48 Surprisingly enough I have not found much damage to the carb. Here is a view from all four sides. It has markings that were not found on the Ebay carb, including the size above the "PWK" casting. To me that is a good sign. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 13:46:38 In this view I noticed some damage. It looks to me like the choke shaft has been bent toward the carb body. Not really surprised considering the lack of padding during shipment. I am sure after disassembly I can either replace it with a choke shaft from my other PWK, or straighten this one. Brass is not hard to work if you are careful. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 13:49:17 It is apparent that the plating on the slide is much better quality than the previous carb. There are a few small nicks and scratches around the flanges on both ends. Nothing that can't be easily smoothed out with some fine sandpaper or a jewelers file. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 13:57:25 The slide movement is very smooth like it should be. The notch is present on the needle housing, unlike my last one. Another good sign. After breaking out my caliper, I found another difference between the Ebay carb and the JFG Racing unit. My crappy quality Ebay carb is 40 mm all the way through, but the JFG Racing carb is 38.5 mm on the intake side, and then tapers out to 40 mm on the cylinder side. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 14:03:52 Closer inspection showed the clear difference on the bore of the carb body. On the top is the JFG Racing carb, the bottom is the crappy Ebay carb. You can see that the carb body bore is a smooth transition from the taper to the minor diameter going through the carb on the JFG Racing carb. The crappy Ebay carb was bored out and left with the transition from machining where it meets the intake taper. Hmmmm... Me thinks the Ebay carb was turned into a 40 mm bore using a smaller carb body? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by LANCER on 06/04/22 at 14:05:34 Sometimes it just pays to pay a bit more for hardware/parts. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 14:07:00 I still need to do a complete tear down of the JFG Racing carb and measure out all the parts. So far, The newer purchase from JFG Racing seems like a higher quality PWK to me. More info to come after I crack this egg open! |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/22 at 14:53:50 I can't imagine the Heart Clutch you had when you saw THAT! Not exactly inspiring.. So who was the carrier? It doesn't seem like the timeline would agree with the FedEx truck that was hit Head on by the guy who was getting the head job. That probably won't be an embarrassing moment for that guy, for more than the rest of his life. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/04/22 at 15:41:26 2D202F2224337376410 wrote:
Believe it or not these two carbs were very close to the same price! Sketchy one off Fleabay came from China, the better quality from JFG Racing shipped out of the USA. JoG - the carrier was UPS. I will post any feedback on the internals on my build thread once I crack it open. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by SpamyToo on 06/05/22 at 07:54:11 Dont kid yourself thinking every single one of them isnt from China. Just some have passed the QC and some are sold on the cheap. Nothing is thrown away when you can sell it online easy enough. Even all the reputable sellers carbs comes from from China, but the QC and sticking with reliable vendors for all the parts makes the difference. But when a legit PWK costs $200 you can take a few stabs at rejects to see how they do. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 06/05/22 at 08:17:25 Very aware of the Chinese factor. I was just wondering if I drilled out the needle jet to accommodate a DGK needle would I run into problems.? |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by TheSneeze on 06/05/22 at 08:18:19 I am aware this new carb originated in China. I did open the float bowl and found it was wet with gas! I'm wondering if JFG filled it with fuel to test the float level? Wishful thinking... I will verify the float level regardless when I get it on the bike. The crappy carb off Fleabay was clean and dry inside. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by DragBikeMike on 06/05/22 at 21:16:55 "I was just wondering if I drilled out the needle jet to accommodate a DGK needle would I run into problems.?" My goodness Duderino, please don't do that. Follow Sneezy's advice. Put it back to the way you had it. You said it was runnin good. Drilling a needle jet will send it to the grave. Wow Sneezy! That is one hurtin shipping container. Both of the carbs I got from JFG Racing were double boxed and brand spankin new. That thing you got was obviously used (fuel in the bowl). I might also add that both the 36mm and 40mm were shipped from China. Looks like maybe all the supply chain issues are catching up with us. These things are clearly a crap shoot. Maybe you received a carb that somebody returned. The price is right. I think you can make it work. But sendin you used stuff in a crushed box is pretty low. |
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Title: Re: PWK? Post by Theduderino on 06/06/22 at 13:24:18 [ch128580] too late…. It’s drilled and running like shitE!! WAY too rich!! The only reason I did it was because of the talk of the DGK needle. I pulled my plug when I changed the needle. Lots of carbon been running rich. I know the JFG carb that I have, has a singular tiny black dot that’s the only mark I could find on the needle. Long story short the DGK wouldn’t fit into that needle jet, (The one that came with my knock off carburetor). The SOB Will not idle.. figure I’ll just order another $28 carburetor |
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