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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> More actions from the most serious threat against /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1622720582 Message started by WebsterMark on 06/03/21 at 04:43:02 |
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Title: More actions from the most serious threat against Post by WebsterMark on 06/03/21 at 04:43:02 Journalist chased down, beaten, forced to hide in hotel while attackers pounded windows. Had to be from the most serious threat to the homeland. https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/510966-408531-ngo-confirms-attack-while-undercover-at-portland-protest?wallit_nosession=1 |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/03/21 at 08:41:35 This I predict this will, just like every time before, devolve into an article contest where one type of violence is countered with another. Took me about 15 seconds to find a "White-wing" assault in CO over the weekend. Another 15 seconds to find "Left-wing" violence. To me the question is how to define Left vs Right and how easily can each event be classified, and how reliable is the reporting method(S) I am ok with the methods CSIS uses for the most part, but there are a few discrepancies I would discuss if anyone reads this: https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states For instance I don't completely agree with the analysis of Unconventional weapons and Tech. This is more comprehensive and we use it regularly. https://start.umd.edu/research At the end of the day I think too few Left-wing violent (or planned) events are appropriately classified, and too many Right-wing violent (or planned) events are improperly classified. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by MnSpring on 06/03/21 at 09:32:17 Quote:
Sounds a lot like a, ‘opinion’. “… white supremacists and other like-minded extremists conducted 67 percent of terrorist plots and attacks in the United States in 2020…” “… there was a rise in the number of anarchist, anti-fascist, and other like-minded attacks and plots in 2020 compared to previous years, which comprised 20 percent of terrorist incidents …” So you agree, Quote:
67% were Far Right groups. And 20% were Far Left groups. OK. Got It ! Quote:
A Government paid study to write a summery of a definitive answer to a subjective question which the matter needs to be further resolved. So the answer is, not responding to a question, which is not the answer, to the definitive answer. To further clarify, it is my duty to inform all of you that my opinion, is not a opinion, that is gathered from not, relying on the impute from others on their opinion. In conclusion, a opinion may be, or may not be, the negative of a opinion, which could be a positive opinion, if does not agree with the opinion, which is stated, as being a opinion. Kinna Like the US Government paying a bunch of money to study a 2 p ecker billy goat in the mountains of Zwanduie. A-Yep, got that also !!!!! |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/03/21 at 10:16:18 Sounds a lot like a, ‘opinion’. Yes. My opinion is that I am ok with the methods used by CSIS. So you agree, Quote: “… for the most part…” , with the findings of a ‘study’, which stated their opinion, called it a ‘study’, (to receive grants/funds/donations from taxpayers), and provided NO PROOF ! Incorrect. I specifically said there were a few discrepancies specific to methods. Go through the methodology, actually read it before you complain, and we can go over the discrepancies. As for NO PROOF, they provide more than you do. You won't even disclose what "local news" station you heard something on. You think CSIS is using incorrect methods? Show us where and actually contribute instead of complaining about it. A Government paid study to write a summery of a definitive answer to a subjective question which the matter needs to be further resolved. Incorrect. It's not a study or a summary, you obviously never looked at any of the information there. So the answer is, not responding to a question, which is not the answer, to the definitive answer. Incorrect. Webstermark poses no question. I proposed the methods are for the most part acceptable to me, but there are discrepancies I would be willing to discuss because the outcomes are not accurate. Instead of having a discussion you complain about something you wont even look at. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by WebsterMark on 06/03/21 at 10:18:15 At the end of the day I think too few Left-wing violent (or planned) events are appropriately classified, and too many Right-wing violent (or planned) events are improperly classified. And therein lies your problem my friend. Your default setting is to find some type of, for lack of a better phrase that comes to mind at the moment, moral equivalence. You take the pronouncement “ judge not lest ye be judged” without context and too literally. There is good, evil and countless levels in between. Most people make fractional shifts up or down from levels clustered around the center. If that were not so, society would break down. That does not mean group ideologies don’t tend to stagnant nearer to one side of the divide or the other. At some point you can’t pretend that the Palestinians are on the same level as the Israelis as an example. Actions matter. The left today more quickly resorts to violence and others from the left who don’t participate search for excuses to justify that violence or look the other way. The fact is the attack on this journalist will go unreported on virtually all news outlets while an identical attack on a journalist by any group even loosely associated with the right side of the political spectrum would be front page news. That’s not a small matter. That’s not whataboutism. That is in fact what keeps the fire burning so to speak. Soon as I come first full circle and return to the beginning of this, perhaps your habit of vigorously trying to level the ground isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The only problem is it does not solve anything. I have no idea what the right wing attack you found in 15 seconds was. But I suspect it does not compare with dozens chasing down a journalist, beating him and probably would’ve killed him if given the opportunity. You should say that. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/03/21 at 10:52:15 The fact is the attack on this journalist will go unreported on virtually all news outlets while an identical attack on a journalist by any group even loosely associated with the right side of the political spectrum would be front page news. That’s not a small matter. That’s not whataboutism. That is in fact what keeps the fire burning so to speak. I agree with that. My assessment is almost all, not all or every but most, as in the majority, of these "news outlets" will cite references like CSIS, or the over-used SPLC, etc. as justification for their reporting being accurate. So a man with a Red Hat is "White-wing extremism" because it One: makes money, and Two: is sitting in places like CSIS as "linked" to "extremism". This isn't saying that this "news outlet" won't find another source, but at the end of the day most counter-violence funding allocation comes from analyzing compiled data, not news outlets reports. My understanding is this post is related to Biden's statement regarding domestic violence and terrorism. I can't say for sure but I doubt his briefing was a bunch of compiled news-outlet reports. It was most likely huge metadata sets analyzed by DHS, CIA, FBI, at least 3 NGO's and metrics from the USPS and others. The morality of violent encounters may or may not have been examined but that's a really hard thing to start pinning numbers on. "But I suspect it does not compare with dozens chasing down a journalist, beating him and probably would’ve killed him if given the opportunity. You should say that." I don't place numbers of violent events on any type of morality scale. If three men beat a Korean mother and two of them sexually assault her daughter is it more moral because they didn't intend to kill them and dozens were not involved? I don't even know how we would start comparing and classifying things like this into a usable table of information. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by WebsterMark on 06/03/21 at 13:54:33 To paraphrase and edit a Supreme Court Justice regarding your lack of assigning values to violent events; “You should know it when you see it” Sandy Hook Elementary Shootings is exponentially worse than gang bangers killing each other in a drug dispute. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/03/21 at 14:49:59 Sandy Hook Elementary Shootings is exponentially worse than gang bangers killing each other in a drug dispute. I agree. But why would I assign a moral value to the numbers killed? 10 kids, 10 drug dealers is still 20 people. Right-wing "linking" of violence is not a moral assessment, it is a classification based off evidence. Left-wing violence based off of political affiliation is not a moral assessment, it is a classification based off evidence. I am saying how that evidence is classified could be refined since a lot of that data is referenced. When you say: " I suspect it does not compare with dozens chasing down a journalist, beating him and probably would’ve killed him if given the opportunity. You should say that." I do not think I should say that my example of violence is less comparable to your example. Especially since I don't even look at it from a morally comparable stance. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by WebsterMark on 06/03/21 at 16:19:29 I agree. But why would I assign a moral value to the numbers killed? Oh I don’t know, maybe because you’re human. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/03/21 at 19:58:35 Oh I don’t know, maybe because you’re human. If 10 children are killed, and 10 drug dealers are killed, how does the morality of each murder impact the number of people killed? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by WebsterMark on 06/04/21 at 03:48:07 Why is it front page news when a person walks into his work and kills the same number of people as die every weekend night in the sh!thole of Chicago? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/04/21 at 06:13:22 "Why is it front page news when a person walks into his work and kills the same number of people as die every weekend night in the sh!thole of Chicago?" There are a number of factors. I was not aware that Biden's statements on domestic threats, specific to "right-wing extremism" had any direct nexus to that. I am saying there is inaccurate methods utilized to classify left/right wing violence that need to be refined. If 10 children are killed, and 10 drug dealers are killed, how does the morality of each murder impact the number of people killed? Why should the morality of each event be somehow calculated in order to classify them by the age, location, affiliation if any, and associated risk factors? How will a morality scale help increase the accuracy of defining right/left violence classification? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/08/21 at 09:34:49 6545474F5245200 wrote:
The number is the same. But I can cheer about ten of them and mourn the kids. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/08/21 at 13:07:48 "The number is the same. But I can cheer about ten of them and mourn the kids." Aggreed. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by MnSpring on 06/08/21 at 13:43:16 Quote:
So these two killings of a Human baby, In your world, are exactly the same. A 48 year woman, with serious health issues, is violently Raped. She is presented with a, ‘morning after’, type pill. A 20 year old woman, who is in the peak of health, Decides to have a rod inserted into her 4 month old Babies head, Because having a Baby is an inconvenience. (and her Bikini just doesn't fit right) |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/08/21 at 14:21:59 "So these two killings of a Human baby, In your world, are exactly the same." Incorrect. I am talking about the restructuring of how Left or Right wing violence is classified in the documents I referenced. None of which address abortion in any way. As for your examples they clearly are not exactly the same, again something I have not said, one is a potential abortion, one is an actual abortion. In your world are these "exactly the same"? 48 year old woman hears a loud banging noise and verbal threats at her closed bedroom door, she grabs a shotgun and shoots through the door. No body is found, no evidence of projectile impact on a human is found. A 20 year old woman hears a loud forceful banging noise at her closed bedroom door, she grabs a shotgun and fatally shoots when a man breaks through the door. Both are the discharge of a firearm, but only one is a confirmed fatality. Should two fatalities be documented? Should as assessment of moral value for each event be done to decide how many fatalities should be documented? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Serowbot on 06/08/21 at 15:11:00 Mn, the problem with your morality is it's based on your god's teachings. And the problem with that is your god's teachings can be twisted into whatever you wish. God killed thousands of babies in Egypt,... he asked for sacrifices, he destroyed the entire world. ...and this is your compass? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by MnSpring on 06/08/21 at 15:20:02 Quote:
I'll make it perfectly correct. Just for people that need everything explained in Infinitesimal detail. (well except for accusing a former POTUS for ..., ..., ..., ..., ..., and on and on) A 48 year woman, with serious health issues, is violently Raped. She is presented with a, ‘morning after’, type pill, after testing occurred that showed a egg of hers was fertilised, and had divided. Wait, guess the fertilization could have happened, before', the Rape. Just take a leap, and believe, it happened, because of the Rape. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by MnSpring on 06/08/21 at 15:32:55 Quote:
Then why are we here ? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Serowbot on 06/08/21 at 15:47:08 43605D7E7C6760690E0 wrote:
Then why are we here ? [/quote] Inbreeding... ;D ...or could it be that your God is a myth? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/08/21 at 15:53:47 "A 48 year woman, with serious health issues, is violently Raped. She is presented with a, ‘morning after’, type pill, after testing occurred that showed a egg of hers was fertilised, and had divided. Wait, guess the fertilization could have happened, before', the Rape. Just take a leap, and believe, it happened, because of the Rape." How is this "exactly the same" again, something I never said, as the 20 year old? How would a morality scale and classification alter the number of abortions in your scenario? Again I am saying the methods used to classify "Right/Left Wing Extremism" is flawed in most cases. The methods. Specifically the methods and only the methods with the exclusion of all other things. Why do we need to have a morality scale to more accurately define if an action is linked to a specific ideology? If we attempt to examine how many sacrifices the Aztecs engaged in do we need to first evaluate and create a definitive morality chart regarding human sacrifice? Can we evaluate the accuracy of these sacrifice numbers and make sure we are not including Aztec prisoner executions from warring tribes without evaluating and scrutinizing the moral fabric of Aztec culture? |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by MnSpring on 06/11/21 at 09:38:34 Quote:
Quote:
Please explain further. How do you know who, ‘my’ God is? Is my God, Jehovah/Allah/Blaguvan/Elohim/ or someone else? Is my religion, Christian/Judaism/Mormonism/Islam/Hinduism/Buddhism/(and many more) So you believe, Quote:
(And not knowing who I believe in) Do you believe all Leaders of a religion, (who the followers of that religion call God), that God is, also, a Myth ? Be careful ! If that is so, your believing, ‘Father Devine’, is a Myth, Could be called Racist ! Ya know, probably better for you to, just not believe, Instead of, ‘Believing In Not Believing’. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by MnSpring on 06/11/21 at 10:03:51 Quote:
Let me, 'Sp'lain it to ya'. Two Humans, Kill another Human. Two completely different circumstances. Currently, in both cases, legal. Treated the same, no problem. 10 hard core gang banger/drug dealers get killed. 10 school children get killed. BOTH, currently illegal. Treated quite differently ! |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by Eegore on 06/11/21 at 11:38:37 "Let me, 'Sp'lain it to ya'. Two Humans, Kill another Human. Two completely different circumstances. Currently, in both cases, legal. Treated the same, no problem. 10 hard core gang banger/drug dealers get killed. 10 school children get killed. BOTH, currently illegal. Treated quite differently !" But you claim this: So these two killings of a Human baby, In your world, are exactly the same. Implying this would be my assessment, even though I clearly state they are not exactly the same. They are 2 abortions and 20 murders - to classify them as Right or Left wing violence does not require a moral evaluation. To classify an abortion as an abortion does not require an evaluation of the mother's moral compass. I am asking why a moral evaluation has to be done in order to classify CSIS information more accurately. Why is that? Why is a morality scale needed to define the political affiliation of an event? What is wrong with reducing the amount of bullsh!t claims that "Right Wing Extremism" was a contributing factor of criminal events? I'm sure more abortion scenarios will keep those questions from being answered. |
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Title: Re: More actions from the most serious threat agai Post by T And T Garage on 06/11/21 at 20:23:19 6040424A5740250 wrote:
Seriously Eegore, you have a better chance of explaining calculus to a turtle than to make any progress with mn. But hey, I give you credit for trying. :) |
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