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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Kicked out of a gun rights meeting /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1615405546 Message started by Eegore on 03/10/21 at 11:45:45 |
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Title: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/10/21 at 11:45:45 I was part of a 32 person virtual meeting on CO gun legislation yesterday. It was organized by a gun-rights group that is affiliated with the NRA, but this was not an NRA sponsored event. During the meeting the primary sponsor indicated "CO is criminalizing theft victims. If you have a gun stolen while on vacation for two weeks you can go to jail when you get back for not reporting it." It turns out I was the only person who actually had the legislation in front of me for the meeting. I asked, nobody acknowledged that they read the actual legislation. This of course could be incorrect and nobody chose to respond that they read the legislation. No surprise there, why educate yourself about what you will be fighting against right? I brought up that the legislation states the following: The bill requires an individual who owns a firearm to report the loss or theft of that firearm to a law enforcement agency within 5 days after discovering that the firearm was lost or stolen. A first offense for failure to make such a report is a petty offense punishable by a $25 fine, and a second or subsequent offense is a class 3 misdemeanor. The 5-day reporting requirement does not apply to a licensed gun dealer. Again: after discovering that the firearm was lost or stolen Once I lifted the document to the camera and showed I was reading verbatim what the legislation was I was then removed from the meeting. I get fighting against gun legislation, but why lie to everyone, and even worse why be ok with being lied to? https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2021A/bills/2021a_078_ren.pdf |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/10/21 at 15:56:28 09292B233E294C0 wrote:
Please let us all know, when that becomes the law of the State. and the after discovering has a strikethrough |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/10/21 at 18:37:04 "Please let us all know, when that becomes the law of the State. and the after discovering has a strikethrough" First lets not pretend I am promoting the change. By challenging the inaccurate claims of criminal prosecution, by using actual words from actual legislation, this does not mean one is all the sudden a gun-control activist. If people are ok being lied to by the one's that are supposed to be helping then the strikethrough will be pretty easy to do. As people fight a law that doesn't exist, the laws that do exist are ignored and more easily modified. Use the frog in boiling analogy all day, none of it matters if gun rights activism uses duplicity to inspire people to fight legislation that doesn't even exist. How valuable is it for someone to go complain about a criminal punishment that doesn't exist? What level of credibility in court will that legal argument have? But ignore today's lies because someday the law might change. That makes sense. The question I have is would you kick someone out of a meeting for clarifying that there is no legislation that puts a citizen in jail for failing to report a gun theft when they were on vacation? |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/12/21 at 08:17:39 68484A425F482D0 wrote:
As evidenced by every person, who had said " Sensible Gun Laws " LOLOL |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/12/21 at 09:30:32 Yeah but still I have the same question, would you kick someone out of a meeting for clarifying that there is no legislation that puts a citizen in jail for failing to report a gun theft when they were on vacation? |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/12/21 at 18:21:20 5F7F7D75687F1A0 wrote:
Is their any proof that happened ? Is their any website address that says that happened ? If a website said that, is that a credible website? |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/12/21 at 20:28:35 Choosing to not report a theft is the right of the property owner. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/12/21 at 22:56:45 Is their any proof that happened ? That I was kicked out of a meeting? Yes there is proof, I have it recorded. Is their any website address that says that happened ? No. If a website said that, is that a credible website? No. The meeting organizer is claiming that if you go on vacation and your gun is stolen you "Will go to jail when you get home" because you didn't report the crime within the 5 days. That is intentionally misleading as the legislation currently presented does not say that. This group is preying on the ignorance of others, getting donations under the assumption they are fighting against a law that doesn't exist. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/12/21 at 23:04:58 "Choosing to not report a theft is the right of the property owner." Can you elaborate on what legal grounds you would use to argue this? What sections of what laws, or legislation dictates there is a "right" to not report a theft? I asked 14 law offices a question similar to this and the responses were all pretty much the same. There are no "rights" guaranteed to any citizen regarding the dispersal of information when a crime is committed. People claim all the time that they do not have to divulge information about a crime and are routinely prosecuted for hindering an investigation. Reporting a crime however is different, and this is the question really, do I have to report a crime? The short answer is no, unless legislation requires it. This type of thing exists all over the place but is typically when it involves harm or imminent harm to another. For instance at the medical center I am required to report domestic violence, child prostitution, rape etc. I am required by law to report that crime. There is an obvious difference between child prostitution and a missing gun, or TV, or anything I own. But, there is no "right" that guarantees I will not have to report that. There should be, but there isn't and declaring it means absolutely nothing. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Matchless G11 on 03/13/21 at 03:35:33 Thing of this nature go on all the time left and right. I remember when they were trying to put back the helmet law in Maryland. I was at a Harley swap meet and there was a guy going around with a full face helmet saying "There going to force you to where one of these!" I think the law said "Dot approved helmet"' not honest , but both side have used things like this as a rallying point. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/13/21 at 06:25:55 1535373F2235500 wrote:
OK, can you point to the law or some other thing, which says one HAS TO report something? (Not a 'association' rule, like a lawyer telling a cop his client said he will murder a person) Then one could fine/prosecute/put in jail, someone looking out the window, and saw the car/people, of the drive by killing. Yet will not, 'Report', it, because the person was the nephew of his/her, half brothers, former girlfriend. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/13/21 at 10:52:11 OK, can you point to the law or some other thing, which says one HAS TO report something? (Not a 'association' rule, like a lawyer telling a cop his client said he will murder a person) Yes as I stated it is required is specific circumstances, mostly abuse to another, mostly to children, but includes elderly, domestic violence, infectious disease and applicable within the medical center. It is law, not association rule, it is legislative enforced law. Legally binding law. it is law. https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/manda.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_reporting_in_the_United_States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK560690/ "Then one could fine/prosecute/put in jail, someone looking out the window, and saw the car/people, of the drive by killing. Yet will not, 'Report', it, because the person was the nephew of his/her, half brothers, former girlfriend." They could not punish this, until there is law. I said there is no responsibility to report, unless legislation requires it, and I indicated unless I am in a medial center, and LAW requires it, I have no responsibility to report. I have no responsibility to report. JoG claims we have protections or a "right" to not report theft, but there is no documentation of this. Saying it does not make it true. As usual I answered your questions, as you continually refuse to answer mine, but I will ask again: Would you kick someone out of a meeting for clarifying that there is no legislation that puts a citizen in jail for failing to report a gun theft when they were on vacation? |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/13/21 at 10:57:30 "I think the law said "Dot approved helmet"' not honest , but both side have used things like this as a rallying point." That sounds like one side is using this tactic. Did the legislative branch present duplicitous documentation then change it after voting? Did the legislative branch go around with no helmets saying "Helmets Optional!!!" ? Or did the legislative branch present the actual law in print as it was to be enforced? My point is to use the actual written documented law, and not lie about what it contains to collect money and waste that money creating arguments about legislative punishments that do not exist. Would you kick a guy out of a meeting for presenting the actual law in print? |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/14/21 at 19:14:00 2505070F1205600 wrote:
So using the senierio; "...someone looking out the window, and saw the car/people, of the drive by killing. Yet will not, 'Report', it, because the person was the nephew of his/her, half brothers, former girlfriend..." If that person looked out the window, after they heard shots and saw a red car leaving. They HAVE to 'report' that information, because it would be investigating a crime. However, if they happed to look out the window, and saw the red car, saw the person, saw the person shoot and kill someone, they would NOT have to report the crime ? "... JoG claims we have protections or a "right" to not report theft, but there is no documentation of this. ..." Can you provide the documentation, that there is a compulsory requirement/law, to, report a theft? (unless the new CO law passes, which will most probably have the words: "after discovery", stricken) |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/14/21 at 19:21:02 735351594453360 wrote:
6 times out of 13 posts ? WOW, those people in that meeting are sure ,'Living In Your Head, Rent Free', aren't they. ;D |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/14/21 at 19:30:04 "So using the senierio; "...someone looking out the window, and saw the car/people, of the drive by killing. Yet will not, 'Report', it, because the person was the nephew of his/her, half brothers, former girlfriend..." If that person looked out the window, after they heard shots and saw a red car leaving. They HAVE to 'report' that information, because it would be investigating a crime." No. I am saying that people that claim they have the "right" to refuse to give information about a crime that is being investigated have learned that this "right" does not exist. You do not have to report a crime except in the circumstances I already outlined, twice. There is no responsibility to report your scenario. Again, there is zero responsibility to report your scenario. "However, if they happed to look out the window, and saw the red car, saw the person, saw the person shoot and kill someone, they would NOT have to report the crime ?" No, see above, its the exact same thing. You do not have the "right" to exempt yourself from mandatory reporting laws. That "right" does not exist. What I was indicating is if a crime is being investigated, and there is a mandatory reporting law, you can not claim you have the "right" to not report. "Can you provide the documentation, that there is a compulsory requirement/law, to, report a theft?" Not yet, but there may be. That is the documentation I already provided. Just because there is no law in place does not automatically mean an action is a protected "right". If a law does not exist against tying shoes in public this does not mean you have a "right" to tie your shoes in public. As usual I answered your questions, as you continually refuse to answer mine, but I will ask again: Would you kick someone out of a meeting for clarifying that there is no legislation that puts a citizen in jail for failing to report a gun theft when they were on vacation? |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/18/21 at 08:37:44 0F2F2D25382F4A0 wrote:
No one except you, said it was, ‘protected’, . “…If a law does not exist against tying shoes in public this does not mean you have a "right" to tie your shoes in public…’ Sure does ! That is a little thing called Freedom. If no law was created by the majority of Citizens prohibiting something, then one does have the ‘right’ to do that thing. One has the, ‘right’ to fart in Church/restaurant/car/etc. It is most certainly rude, but it is a right that person has, simply because they have the Freedom to do that. Farting in Church, is not a, ’Protected’, right, as you changed the meaning of what someone else said. “…I answered your questions, as you continually refuse to answer mine,…” You have provided no proof, none whatsoever, that what you say, happened. Not even a FB/Twit/other comment, not a ’suspect’, web page or blog, not even CNN or MSNBC. So I don’t know for a fact that happened, and don’t know for a fact what tone of voice, or inferences were used. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/18/21 at 12:10:22 "If no law was created by the majority of Citizens prohibiting something, then one does have the ‘right’ to do that thing. One has the, ‘right’ to fart in Church/restaurant/car/etc. It is most certainly rude, but it is a right that person has, simply because they have the Freedom to do that. Farting in Church, is not a, ’Protected’, right, as you changed the meaning of what someone else said." I agree. What I mean is using the argument that one has a "right" to do something, and there is law against it, you can not claim that right. Since it is not protected. If a law is proposed against farting in church you can not use the argument that you have the "right" to fart in Church - unless that "right" you are claiming as argument against law is protected. "You have provided no proof, none whatsoever, that what you say, happened." Then let's say it is hypothetical. Would you, as a gun rights activist, refuse access to a meeting you invited someone to, if they used actual legal documents in that meeting? Not even a FB/Twit/other comment, not a ’suspect’, web page or blog, not even CNN or MSNBC. So I don’t know for a fact that happened, and don’t know for a fact what tone of voice, or inferences were used." This had nothing to do with CNN or MSNBC, it was a local gun activist group that is claiming you "will go to jail" if you go on vacation and do not report a gun theft - prior to having knowledge of the theft - but if you pay them money they will go fight against that law. I'm not going to put their information out here since it's a scam and if legal action is necessary, nothing about additional slander would help the victims. Although in my mind you deserve to lose your money if you think law can even be enforced in a capacity that one can be criminally incarcerated if they do not report a crime they do not have knowledge of. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by MnSpring on 03/21/21 at 07:48:44 5070727A6770150 wrote:
OK “hypothetical”, and me personally. “…refuse access to a meeting you invited someone to…” If I knew the person constantly implied they were better than anyone they disagree with. Eluded they have access to, information/staff/students/minions, that no-one else does. They most likely would not have been, ‘invited’, in the first place. “…if they used actual legal documents in that meeting? …” That would depend entirely on, how, the information was presented. Tone/Attitude/Direction. “… I'm not going to put their information out…” That sounds just like a couple, who has (reported) 50 Million dollars, which one is 6th in line to control Canada/Australia/England, and has accused people/group/firm of a crime, with absolutely NO proof. AND the, SHEPOL, believe it ! |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 03/21/21 at 14:16:33 If I knew the person constantly implied they were better than anyone they disagree with. Eluded they have access to, information/staff/students/minions, that no-one else does. They most likely would not have been, ‘invited’, in the first place. I was invited, so this doesn't apply in the case I am presenting. Hypothetically you did invite them, the question is about someone you did invite, not would you invite people you would not invite. "Eluded they have access to, information/staff/students/minions, that no-one else does." This makes no sense, other than the high-school students that there is a written agreement to not allow direct communication with, all other staff are accessible as well as their referenceable material that is provided in full. I have stated this before multiple times. I offer direct communication, without my inclusion, but in some situations it is conveniently refused after the contact numbers and emails are provided. How would you refusing to talk to my staff be a situation where you do not have access to them? I provide direct links, how do you not have access to that information? In this meeting I provided the actual documents by digital link to the CO State website, and held up the printed documentation. How do people not have access to that information? This is a far cry from an "inside source" that offers no reference, unlike my situation where references are provided and the staff will talk to you directly about it. "That would depend entirely on, how, the information was presented. Tone/Attitude/Direction." That makes sense. |
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Title: Re: Kicked out of a gun rights meeting Post by Eegore on 06/24/21 at 10:58:44 Ok so 17 out of the original 32 have now contacted me and an associate in regards to the CO law. The primary concern is that donations were made and the law passed so easily. You think? You pay someone to fight a law that isn't real and instead a real law gets passed? The unfortunate circumstance is nothing can be done at this point except passing the documented footage off to some lawyers to see if any legal action is plausible. I doubt it is worth the cost at this point but I also don't know how much money was raised. Use official documentation, not some guys words "paraphrasing" words for you as if you are illiterate. |
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