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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Savage on Gravel Roads?
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Message started by DustyCrusty on 11/11/20 at 07:46:01

Title: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by DustyCrusty on 11/11/20 at 07:46:01

Hi folks.
My camping bike is a Suzuki TU250X. I ride about 30% on gravel and dirt roads while the remaining 70% is on pavement. Occasionally with my wife on the back. Handling is not bad. I have to adjust my speed depending on how loose the gravel is. It's a bit tense on real loose rolling gravel.
I'd like a bit more power and am considering a savage. I would convert the belt drive to chain to avoid damaging the belt. Mid controls would definitely help but that is a lot of work and expense so I probably would not do that.

I know there are better options for the riding I would be doing but I am restricted to the 43" height of a bike to clear the canopy of my truck. I like the savage style and the power would be a great improvement on the pavement compared to the TU250X.

What are everyone's experiences on gravel?'
Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/20 at 09:08:13

I think there are better options,... but if something draws you to the Savage, I'd say a chain drive and 12" rear shocks would go a long way to making it more gravel friendly. You can buy 800 Intruder shocks used for under $50.
Keep in mind, the 15" rear wheel makes DP tires impossible without a wheel swap.

In my experience, the Savage does self correct out a slide pretty well.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by LANCER on 11/11/20 at 09:12:33

I live on a dirt/gravel road that’s 1/3 mile to the pavement, and out here your paved road can just stop and turn dirt until ... and I do try to avoid them if possible. That said, our dirt/gravel section is not a problem with a little speed on the gravel portions.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/11/20 at 09:57:32

KTM 390 Adventure or a BMW G 310GS. They are designed for gravel roads.

A Honda Monkey 125, Trail 125 or CB300 would be a better choice.

Even a RE500...

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Zepp on 11/11/20 at 12:57:35

0435333439033235333439400 wrote:

There are always better options, I got some friends that ride Ducati Scramblers!
In any case I was in for an Intruder, drive shaft and such a things, but suddenly, I found out there is a big thumper they cald Savage.. and fell in love imedetly! After that I found this forum.. ist great about Savage and S40 Boulevard!
At this summer I happend to be on a gravel road, totaly panic, not that it was dificult but mostly becuse my bike is in almoste mint condition, I dont want to damage anything!
In any case.. its a big thumper, 650 cubic engin, there are a lot of torque, if one only dont hesitates as I did!
But on the other hand.. I didnt ride whit a wife on the rear seat.
If I got my a girlfriend that love to ride on the back seat I probably would by my a bigger bike.. but only if she loves to ride on the back seat.. preferaly a Intruder/Marouder kind of bike.
In any case I like the belt, its not a drive shaft, it doesent ned any lubrication, it seldom snap of in any case!

To the others, I got brand new tarmack tires.. its this, different tires for different riding.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by IslandRoad on 11/11/20 at 14:06:33

The Savage is a pretty sedate bike, but the torque at low speed can catch you off guard on gravel.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by ohiomoto on 11/11/20 at 17:17:49

I think this bike would be a real turd on gravel. The narrow handlebars and forward controls will make it impossible to get off the seat if needed. The TU250x is a much better choice. Even better would be any dual sport bike you can find.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Hiko on 11/11/20 at 18:45:24

I like to ride my savage on the back roads around here in the hills
I am an old returning rider that hadnt ridden for years so was as nervous as hell on gravel at first .The deep stuff I take slower but I find if I keep a loose grip on the bars and let the bike find its own way a bit and keep the hand off the front brake and ride as smooth as possible very little happens
The PO fitted wider standard lower bars to this bike and I think that is a help also. I can get off the seat easy but only do that on speed bumps in town.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by DustyCrusty on 11/11/20 at 19:47:51

Thanks for the input all. I hope to hear more. The thought of longer rear shocks is interesting. That should decrease the rake angle and trail distance. I'll have to remember my old trigonometry and see if I can work out the rake and trail differences.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by SpamyToo on 11/12/20 at 00:55:44

Really dont like this bike on gravel. Mine is raised in the back and lowered in the front and just handled pretty bad. Cruising along it was ok, but trying to slow down it just wanted to wash out and turning is a joke. Im sure its the rake and weight distribution and how I personally have mine set up. But I dumped it twice and would rather not go in the soft loose gravel with this bike. But I put on some semi knobby tires thinking that would do the trick. Maybe for mud, didnt help at all in gravel.

Just for reference I have ridden and raced since my poop was green so its not just me being a goon.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by ckahleer on 11/12/20 at 06:22:22

I have had many dual sport bikes over the years, 200cc - 650cc, and my 1990 DR650 was the best handling gravel bike of them all. Don't know why. It just didn't squirm around and went where you steered it.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/12/20 at 07:28:51

5A525851555C5C4B390 wrote:
I have had many dual sport bikes over the years, 200cc - 650cc, and my 1990 DR650 was the best handling gravel bike of them all. Don't know why. It just didn't squirm around and went where you steered it.

Rake and Trail. You can't have slow/lazy steering on loose gravel/soil. The DR has low rake and trail, whereas the LS is almost asleep at the wheel.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Dave on 11/12/20 at 08:01:10

I also believe you don't want wide tires on gravel......a big footprint just makes more marbles under the tread! :o

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by LANCER on 11/12/20 at 09:54:53

I do just fine on any gravel unless it’s a >3” layer of small gravel. I could probably do that too if I up the speed but haven’t needed to much. I usually ride in 2nd gear and on occasion have kicked in 3rd.
Desert racers do great with higher speeds. It works, according to terrain dictates of course.
It all depends on what you’ve got to work with.

I’ve used wider bars for a long time, you get more control; just makes sense. And I have stock forward let’s and stand frequently for road irregularities or whatever. I’m 71 and it’s easy to stand up for me.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Hiko on 11/12/20 at 16:04:55

Quote:

Rake and Trail. You can't have slow/lazy steering on loose gravel/soil. The DR has low rake and trail, whereas the LS is almost asleep at the wheel.

I tend to think thats a good thing for my sedate style of riding
The savage has relatively heavy wheels ..big gyroscopes that want to keep you going straight I find by letting it do its thing with a loose grip on the bars and riding smooth it does very well
My bars are wide which also helps
I could be wrong but thats my feeling
Now a scooter with small light wheels would be an entirely different thing I think

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by akhsha on 11/13/20 at 10:59:50

I feel uniquely qualified to answer this question.

In the past year I've owned an S40 and a TU250X and I've ridden both on gravel/dirt with a passenger.

I'm 5'11" and about 170lbs, my passenger is 5'6" and slim

I bought a TU250X in March with my girlfriend at the time in Northern rural NM and we gallivanted around the countryside for about a month on the TU250X. We both have a license, sometimes she would drive and other times I would. It was an absolute BLAST. I loved riding that TU250X around the dessert. Granted, it only topped out around 65mph with both of us on it, so highways were out of the question.

After spending a month out in NM, it was time for me to head home to the east coast, and since flying was more or less out of the question back in May/June, I bought myself a slightly larger bike to head home on, my 2009 S40. It was the right price with very low miles and seemed pretty easy to maintain. We had both bikes for a few weeks, and occasionally we would take the S40 out together instead of the TU250X. I've got to say that the S40 was much less fun on dirt/gravel. If it weren't for the fact that I had to ride across the country, I would much rather own a TU250X than the S40. I do still take the S40 on the highways back east occasionally, and I'll say that it's way better than the 250 for highway riding.

Also, quick note about the Intruder shocks (I have them on my bike). I don't think it's as simple as people here are letting on. It's a bit of an "if you give a mouse a cookie" situation.
If you put intruder shocks on your savage, you're going to need to either remove your passenger footpegs, or swap your muffler out for a harley muffler. This involves fabricating an adapter pipe and finding the right muffler (easier said than done). You're also going to have to change out a few screws that will now be rubbing on your belt, but a chain drive would negate that. Also, you'll need to grind down three parts on your belt cover that will now be grinding on your belt/pulley. Next, you'll need to adjust your seat, because it'll be pushing you forward into your tank even more than it was before the shock swap since the bike is leaned forward. Also you'll need to adjust your headlight, which will now be pointed at the ground. All of this stuff is easy, but it involves a few trips to the local Ace and takes a few days to get right.
Also, now that you've changed your muffler, you'll need to retune your carb. That white spacer is an absolute b**** to get to if you're a novice wrencher like myself.

Lastly, those forward controls are really inconvenient for riding on gravel/dirt, and I'd like to change mine out as soon as I have the time and money (who ever has both at the same time???)

I do enjoy riding around on my savage, and wrenching on it, plus it was a great price, but it's not the best option if you want something that's dirt/gravel friendly.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by DustyCrusty on 11/13/20 at 17:37:51

Great info from all. I really appreciate it.

Akysha, (previus poster) Did changing out the shocks to intruder shocks have any positive or negative effects for gravel riding? How about for pavement riding?

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by akhsha on 11/14/20 at 06:03:40

I personally like the bike a lot more with the intruder shocks. It's more responsive on pavement for sure, the ride is a little gentler over potholes. Biggest difference offroad is the ground clearance. I bottomed out at least once back in NM, but that hasn't been an issue since getting back east and swapping the shocks. There isn't much dirt or gravel here though, so I'm mostly on pavement now anyways

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Zepp on 11/14/20 at 13:05:02

4F7E787F7248797E787F720B0 wrote:

As you understand. this is a forum for those that like Savage/or s40 its a bias for this bike here!
We dont say this is the bike for everyone.. for everething!
In any case its 650 big thumper, there are torque if one need it.
In the other case, if I get a girlfriend or a wife that realy loves to ride on the backseat, I probably gonna buy me a bike whit a bigger frame.
To the other topic about gravel roads.. its mostly about the tires.
Dont bother about rebuilding your bike for another purpose anyhow, buy the right bike for your purpose at least befor you rebuild it!
Its this, those of my friends that ride Ducati Scramblers rides on tarmak tires, they juste like the look of it.. kind od ofroad bikes!

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by DustyCrusty on 12/02/20 at 16:34:50

[img][/img]Just picked up a 2016 that had been dropped. Tested her out today and am pleasantly surprised. Nice ride. Good suspension. Very adequate power. Handles not bad on moderately loose gravel roads. A real pleasure on pavement. Got it for a song. $2000 canadian or about $15 US dollars.
But it needs some work. Needs a battery, The famous head plug oil leak needs fixing. Tank was damaged and filled and painted with a rattle can.
I'm turning this one into a bobber so it needs some mods anyways. Bar hopper / city bike.
I think I might pick up another to use as my camping bike for occasional 2 up riding.
Thanks all. I appreciate all the input.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Edub on 12/04/20 at 23:04:40

Congratulations on the bike! This was a cool thread, I hope you'll continue to update with what you do with your bike.

Title: Re: Savage on Gravel Roads?
Post by Zepp on 12/07/20 at 16:45:09

407177707D47767177707D040 wrote:

In ayway, I love all I can see in the picture.
Its black as my 2000 Savage, but I altso have grey strips on the fuel tank!
And I got the sissybar, dont know if its comfortable at all.. but its on my bike.
WTF.. a 2016.. its amoste brand new, could anybody have destroid that much.. exept the paintings?
And to the oil leak.. I got somting similar, but not don enything about it, becuse its not getting any worse, a cosmetic issue. Coul be that extra nut in the front that need some thightening?