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Message started by Eegore on 10/28/20 at 08:12:41

Title: Popular vote legislation
Post by Eegore on 10/28/20 at 08:12:41

So I am looking for any opinions regarding legislation about "Popular Vote" and exclusively this topic with the exemption of all other topics. Specifically any advantages or disadvantages one sees in regards to a State allocating all their electoral votes to the candidate with the most overall national votes.

Right now it is a situation of tallying the votes in one State and then allocating the Electoral votes towards the candidate that received the most votes in that State.

The change would be allocating the Electoral votes in one State to the candidate that received the most votes in the overall national tally.

Without presenting data of hundreds of pages of material that nobody here will read I can present the two most common arguments that I have seen (these are exclusive to my observation and not to be considered factually confirmed "most common" by data driven, researched and reviewed information):

No on the National tally because it gives State votes to what everyone else voted for instead of what constituents in that State want. It is a workaround to amending the US Constitution.

Yes for the change as it reduces the overall impact and focus on "swing" states, and it prevents the need to amend the US Constitution.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/20 at 08:47:36

No on the National tally because it gives State votes to what everyone else voted for instead of what constituents in that State want. It is a workaround to amending the US Constitution.

Our system is fine.
Lefties are just butthurt because they lost.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/20 at 09:09:46

I vote NO.

It is not the intent of the original compromise to provide representatives for the people of each state and also for each state.

I also think the population has expanded far beyond the compromise and has diluted the weight of the state vote and should be rebalanced.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by WebsterMark on 10/28/20 at 09:31:34

The electoral college basically gives the land of voice. A large county in Los Angeles or New York has a greater population than Montana North Dakota South Dakota and Wyoming combined. Yet the landmass is enormous and the people who live there live entirely differently than those in a highly populated county. That’s the point of the Electoral College. It gives a disproportionately higher value to rural votes. The electoral college is another method to protect the minority.

If five lions and four zebras are voting on what’s for lunch, you better hope there’s an electoral college voting system in place if you’re are a zebra.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by MnSpring on 10/28/20 at 10:10:22

1434363E2334510 wrote:

... Right now it is a situation of tallying the votes in one State and then allocating the Electoral votes towards the candidate that received the most votes in that State. ...

That is the way it is in 48 States. Not all.
Each State can choose how to do it.

To make it the way 48 States deal with their Electorates,
and give the entire State, to the way of a popular recorded National vote,
is nothing more that usurping the Constitution, and a fast path to Socialism.

Electoral votes were made on the believes, that the people in the Country are just dumb bumpkins, and the people in the city are the smart ones, so they should be the ones to decide.
THAT ‘IDEA’, while once, could have been, in certain areas, possibly true,
is no longer true.

Electoral Collage Voting System.
Each District in a state has 1 vote.
The entire State has 2 votes.
In 48 States, if the State votes one way, All the votes of All the Districts will be recorded the same way.

Example, Mn has 8, ‘Districts’, where the vote in each District is recorded.
in 2016; 5 districts voted R, 3 districts voted D, the State voted D
The 3 districts consisted of the the most densely populated areas in Minn.
So Minn Electoral vote was 5 for Trump, and 5 for Clinton.
Because the population of 3 of the very densely Districts, was a bit more than votes of the 5 Districts, the entire State went Clinton.
Effectively nullifying the majority of people, in 5 Districts in Minn.

Minn should have been 5 Electoral Votes for Trump and 5 for Clinton.

AS CALF SHOULD HAVE BEEN 20 FOR TRUMP AND 35 FOR CLINTON.

Say the States of N.D. S.D. ID, etc.. voted for one party,
and the States like FL, CA, NY, etc, voted for another.
Now, in ENTIRE States, the Vote just don’t matter !

Used to be, ‘just,’ the vote of, entire Districts, didn’t matter.

Throwing AWAY, the Majority of the Entire population, of a State’s Vote.
Begs the question of,
WHY is that State Paying a Tax,
and Not having any Representation !

...a State allocating all their electoral votes to the candidate with the most overall national votes...

NO

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by eau de sauvage on 10/28/20 at 13:19:48

@Eegore,

The US system needs a top to toe makeover, not futzing around the edges. Right now the conservatives have installed an extreme right wing judiciary 50 years out of date with the bulk of the US population, for lifetime appointments. McConnell, basically said "fcuk it, I don't care if we lose power for a few terms because we can stop responsible govt dead in its tracks with our unelected judges.

You need court reform, not electoral reform, firstly. Right now Kavanaugh who was one of the lawyers who pushed for the Supreme Court to overrule the State's election Laws in Bush v Gore, interfering in more State laws, now he's on the SC. His opinions contradict his own opinions in order to push raw power.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by WebsterMark on 10/28/20 at 14:16:39

293B2F2C3B3D3F5A0 wrote:

Oh geez......

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by eau de sauvage on 10/28/20 at 15:38:52

Oh geez......

That's it? that is your refutation? I understand that without the personal abuse, you are limited in your ability to respond to a post that you quote in its entirety, but c'mon man! you can do better than that. Surely?

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by Serowbot on 10/28/20 at 16:50:55

Funny,.. we spread democracy around the globe but resist it here.
;D

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by eau de sauvage on 10/28/20 at 18:30:08

796F78657D68657E0A0 wrote:

Funny,.. we spread democracy around the globe but resist it here.

I do not think Zelinski's fragile and new Ukraine democracy found it funny, when Trump tried to corrupt them.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by eau de sauvage on 10/28/20 at 18:32:59

In 48 States, if the State votes one way, All the votes of All the Districts will be recorded the same way.

Certainly Barr will be working out if it's possible to work around this in a close vote, by a unilateral legislative order. It's not constitutionally fixed. The US has only just found out how fragile their brand of democracy really is.

Title: Re: Popular vote legislation
Post by MnSpring on 10/29/20 at 07:26:45

2F3D292A3D3B395C0 wrote:

... It's not constitutionally fixed ...

The way the Electrical votes are tallied,
is in the States Constitution.

"...The US has only just found out how fragile their brand of democracy really is ..."

So you are agreeing,
ALL States need to have their Electoral Votes tallied,
just like MA & NE ?

Great, you want Freedom !
Good to know !