|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Motor Oil /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1600190776 Message started by gtenginerd on 09/15/20 at 10:26:16 |
|
Title: Motor Oil Post by gtenginerd on 09/15/20 at 10:26:16 I read the post on oils, but it's dated back to 2012. Are there any recent recommendations on good oils with proper ZDDP levels. It sounds like there is a debate on this topic. Not trying to start a stone circle death match. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by stewmills on 09/15/20 at 10:54:49 Nothing new. If what you saw advised Rotella T4 (dino) or T6 (synthetic), 15w40, that's all you need to know. Been using it for 8+ years with no issue. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by ckahleer on 09/15/20 at 19:46:23 You should use an oil that meets the JASO MA or MA2 standard. This will be stated on the back of the oil bottle along with other standards it meets. The reason many recommend Rotella, is that it meets JASO MA standards and is stated on the bottle. I checked all the oils at my local Walmart, and Rotella was the only non motorcycle specific oil that listed it met the JASO MA standard. https://www.whitedogbikes.com/whitedogblog/choosing-the-right-motorbike-oil-what-does-jaso-and-jaso-ma2-mean/ |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Hiko on 09/15/20 at 21:45:01 Good info above .... thanks! I just discovered I should be using JASO MA2 oil as my dyna muffler is a cat converter model |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Dave on 09/16/20 at 04:24:53 487D6E6A626A0F0 wrote:
The Savage should not use an MA2 oil, as those have a reduced amount of ZDDP.....I believe they are down around 600 PPM. Experience on this forum has proven you need at least a 1,000 PPM of ZDDP in order for the cam and rockers to survive. The MA2 oils are supposed to allow the Oxygen Sensor and Catalytic converter to last longer as a result of the reduced amount of ZDDP. Modern engines designed for the MA2 oils are built differently than the primitive Savage engine - and they can operate with the reduced ZDDP levels. The Rotella oils have 1,200 PPM of ZDDP, and long term use by forum members has proven that it allows the engine to last a very long time. Youzguyz rebuilt his motor at 160,000 miles and the only parts worn beyond specs was the valve guides. The piston, cylinder, cam, rockers and other engine parts were put back in and have recently gone beyond 200,000 miles and Youzguyz is still riding the bike and adding more miles daily. I use Rotella T6 in my Pontiac Vibe that has the original oxygen sensor and catalytic converter, and in 177,000 miles the high ZDDP level has not damaged those parts. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by ckahleer on 09/16/20 at 09:01:53 152E2334252932342F272A35460 wrote:
The Savage should not use an MA2 oil, as those have a reduced amount of ZDDP. Since your bike does not have O2 sensors/check engine lights, I wouldn't worry about too much ZDDP. The worst that could happen is in 100,000 miles your emissions would be the same as the rest of us Savage riders. Rotella T6 is rated JASO MA/MA2. So I guess they are saying the oil meets MA2 standards even with a high level of ZDDP? |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Serowbot on 09/16/20 at 09:14:20 The "cat" in a Harley muffler is really just a scrunched up bunch of metal designed to raise exhaust temps enough to burn off exhaust gases that escape combustion. There are no chemicals or anything to damage or block in there, so don't worry about damage. Cat friendly oils protect O2 sensors which we don't have. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by zevenenergie on 09/16/20 at 09:48:29 http://https://i.imgur.com/2MPK0XDm.jpg I interTrump if you don't mind, because I also have a question about oil. While we talk my clutch plates are soaking in petrol. So I need oil, but shell rottela is not available in the Netherlands. I fond this: http://https://i.imgur.com/YDngbqIm.png API SN JASO MA2 (T903:2016) TYPE: Semisynthetisch Wil it work? |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by ckahleer on 09/16/20 at 10:48:26 It says it is intended for modern, high performance motorcycles. Perfect fit for a Savage. Seriously though, you may have to do some research to find the ZDDP level. I would go with Dave's recommendation of 1000 or more ZDDP. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Ruttly on 09/16/20 at 11:12:16 Castrol is great oil and probably a good substitute. But if Rotella Is available it is your best bet and best bang for your buck. You really don’t want to start a oil war here , they are heavily armed here , they have researched this and researched it again & again. Things get ugly here quick. You better be prepared if that’s the case. May god have mercy on your soul ! |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/20 at 12:04:10 It says it is intended for modern, high performance motorcycles.. Which is exactly why you shouldnt use it.. The engine design on the savage is ancient. You asked You were sent to Rotella Youve been given the best advice available Better than what the dealership would give. People here have LITERALLY Hundreds of thousands of miles on these bikes and they KNOW what works. Choose wisely and be ready to accept the consequences of your choices. People who ask and choose then to argue,, Hmmm,, I Just dont know what to think.. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by zevenenergie on 09/16/20 at 13:35:32 I don't want to start a war, but it's tempting. :D I wil do my best.... And in addition ..... :-* Rotella :-* is from shell and shell is a dutch company. yet strange that we cannot buy it here. I read that >:(castrol >:( is nice to the coupling. that's why I came up with it. I want :-* Rottela :-*, I will certainly not ignore your advice, it has strengthed my will. :-X Tomorrow I'm going to call shell to see if :-*Rottela :-* is being sold here under a different name, it is strange that such good products are not available here. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/20 at 13:48:26 Go to where Big TRucks have oil changed.. Rotella, when I first discovered it, was what I was using in my backhoe. Avoid, like the PLag,,,Uhh, CV19,, anything with friction modifiers. Those are Fine if youre sliding on asphalt,, but not in a wet clutch. Take with you a print out of what Rotella is and talk to them about the oils they have available. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Hiko on 09/16/20 at 17:59:09 Great advice to use Rotella and it has a great track record apparently except that it is not sold here in New Zealand even though Shell markets other oil products here. The local Suzuki motorcycle shop recommends Putoline another Netherlands company oil Jaso ma2 but no zinc mentioned. I have settled for Penrite MC4st Full synthetic suitable for wet clutches and transmissions 1800+PPm zinc JasoMa rated but not JasoMA2 which is apparently not suitable for catalytic converters that have O2 sensors. Oils for these bikes is a very confusing minefield and what is an easy choice in one part of the globe may not be in another Serowbot thanks for the info on Harley cat converters |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oilu Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/20 at 19:09:14 I'm not the go to guy on this and maybe someone will say something completely contrary to this,, but what I Think I know is Our valve train is Frikken brutal. And oils for older engine designs are more likely to be appropriate than oils for engines that use lifters. I'd go to where truck drivers buy oil. And hope.. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by zevenenergie on 09/17/20 at 01:41:31 Ten phone calls later and i,m sure Rotella is not availebele here. It is, if you wiling to pay $55 shipping cost Ore order a truckload. Im pritty much convinced now, that Rotella is the way to go. But im not willing to spent that much. The littel spring on the tensioner is damaged http://https://i.imgur.com/fwY4KeHm.jpg and a new one costs $25,- And, I already had a severe case of pay muscle withdrawal spasm contraction syndrome. :P So, I am going to use Castrol. http://https://i.imgur.com/56ySG9ym.jpg I have found that; ZDDP is nothing more than ordinary zinc. :-? And I have zinc and scissors ... http://https://i.imgur.com/4ii26Eel.jpg Am I still on topic? |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Seipgam on 09/17/20 at 04:06:52 I’m in Australia and like Hiko use Penrite with zinc added, but I use the mineral one just because it’s a little cheaper. Suitable for my Royal Enfield as well. Geoff. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by zevenenergie on 09/17/20 at 08:24:40 I soaked my clutch plates in gasoline for 2 days. And man what a bummer the brown spots are swolen completely soft and I can pick them out with my nails. http://https://i.imgur.com/lto6HSZl.jpg :( |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by gtenginerd on 09/17/20 at 19:38:46 I saw a note to not talk about oil and was confused...now i get it ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by ckahleer on 09/17/20 at 20:28:22 60736269606E69627563070 wrote:
I disagree. If friction modifiers are not good for our clutches, if insufficient ZDDP levels damage rockers and cams, If JASO MA is good for our bikes but JASO MA2 is not, these things need to be discussed on a forum like this. I have never heard of ZDDP before reading this thread. You helped me in choosing oil for my next oil change by starting this thread. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by zevenenergie on 09/18/20 at 00:55:29 My plate,s returnd to normal, Oeff. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by ckahleer on 09/22/20 at 12:53:49 For those who can't find oil with the proper level of ZPPD, this may work. https://www.ebay.com/itm/REV-X-ZDDP-Zinc-Phosphorus-Engine-Oil-Additive-Restore-the-Protection/263694771451?epid=1971534023&hash=item3d656ee4fb:g:cAwAAOSwjMBcxwXb |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Dave on 09/22/20 at 17:39:48 4B434940444D4D5A280 wrote:
You have to be careful withe the ZDDP additives. Some contain Moly or other friction modifiers......and they will cause our clutch to slip. Don't use it if the manufacturer doesn't state it is safe for use in wet clutches. The Redline ZDDP additive is OK for the Savage and we used to recommend adding 1 oz per oil change - but the bottle would get a pink sludge in the bottom a couple of months after you opened the bottle....and the stuff could not be shaken back into suspension. It really is better if you can find an oil that is properly blended for the Savage......adding stuff afterwards is always "iffy", and it is better if you can find a proper oil and use it without additives. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by eau de sauvage on 09/23/20 at 01:28:37 It's an oil thread, who can resist. Another Aussie here and another recomendation for Penrite. I use the Penrite HPR GAS 10, 10W50 it's a semi synth. You will notice that there is a motorcycle icon on the penrite car oil, you have to be careful because they have a lot of similar sounding names for their oils. at the moment it's $28 for 5 Litres! https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/penrite-penrite-hpr-gas-10-engine-oil---10w-50-5-litre/123727.html I've used it on my GS for the past 60k kms, and it's up to 76k kms and it's still on the factory valve shims and doesn't use any oil. So it's doing a good job. Just sold that bike last month. Works good for the S40 too. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/20 at 04:36:34 Rotella is generally in the 13 to 15 dollar range.. And gasoline is around $1.65/gallon now. Oil prices stay pretty steady, gas, up and down,, I don't get that.. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by philthymike on 09/23/20 at 06:21:30 This year I started using Suzuki motor oil after replacing my clutch. The most noticeable difference from Rotella I used previously is the engine runs significantly quieter and with less gear noise while riding. On my recent overnight ride I had to put in some oil and got rotella again and the engine noise and gear whine got louder again. Today I'm changing the oil and using Suzuki oil. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by LANCER on 09/23/20 at 06:35:01 Interesting, my engine and trans noises, and the shift change “clunk” as well softened/quieted after beginning to use ZDDP. These bikes of ours are not clones, they are a varied group. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by philthymike on 09/23/20 at 06:44:54 78757A7771662623140 wrote:
My engine is obviously not stock so perhaps the conventional wisdom in regards to Rotella doesn't apply to it. That oil makes my engine sound like a metal garbage can rolling down a staircase. And shifting is notchy too. No such complaints with Suzuki oil though the price of it is cause for complaint. Worth it for quieter smoother running in my book. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by LANCER on 09/23/20 at 06:51:39 Yep, a quirky bunch they are. Valvoline has a diesel oil with ZDDP in it that is comparable to T-4 and with price also on the 2.5 gal size. |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/20 at 09:40:52 253D3C39213D2C383C3E30550 wrote:
Which oil? I know they make more than one, right? Personally, Im not bothered by the clunk,, or gear whine,, Its what they tell me is happening inside that I could get concerned with.. But then,, I think about some of the really high mileage machines out there that have had a long history of nothing but Rotella.. Ahhh,, dangitt,, decisions decisions,, The cost of oil per mile isnt that big of a deal,, really,, So,, as much as I enjoy buying Rotella on the cheap,, I wouldnt mind going with Suzuki, if it makes a noticeable difference. I dont even keep up with the mileage with Rotella. The regular oil check will tell me whien its time for a change. The number of miles ridden in a day and seeing the oil level drop tells me its time, usually long before 3,000 miles is passed. If Suzuki oil holds together better and doesnt start disappearing at a half pint in a fifty mile run into and around town day at 2,000 miles, then it could be every bit as cheap as Rotella in time/filter and oil use.. Does anyone change the filter just every other oil change? Is that stupid? |
|
Title: Re: Motor Oil Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/23/20 at 12:26:41 I change it every time. It's a good opportunity to see what's going on inside the engine. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |