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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Savage Dual Sport /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1598041225 Message started by Wez on 08/21/20 at 13:20:25 |
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Title: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/21/20 at 13:20:25 Hello Everyone! Excited to be a new Savage 650 owner. Father / Son project underway. My son is showing great promise and will likely make a great Engineer / Technician someday. The plan is to get him used to angle grinders, toque wrenches, welding, electrical work, schematic reading and all electro-mechanical knowledge. When I get home, I'll identify what year this savage is but it was given to me free. The plan is to make a dual sport / dirt bike that's register-able and dirt friendly. My nighthawk 750 is not cutting it. Too heavy. The plan is to acquire a mono shock dirt bike frame and chop, cut and rebuild it to the Savage it should have been from the factory. My son sat there last night with me for a few hours clearing the basement and preparing the frame/wheels for concept ideas. He saved my back a lot of ache and even sat down to look at inspiration images. it's already starting to work |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/21/20 at 13:28:58 Just need to figure out how to post pictures. [img][/img] The above code is displayed, but the images are not uploaded in between the string.... Local vintage motorcycle shop has a junk yard full of vintage dirt bikes. I already found a mono shock Suzuki dirt bike roller! He wants $200. I think thats steep.... |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/21/20 at 14:50:30 Used to be a you tube of some crazy dude with what looked like a stock Savage out in the dirt doing things that I would have thought impossible.. Hoppin logs, just crazy stuff,, He Wants $200.00 Might accept less,, |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by DieselBob on 08/21/20 at 16:45:48 Wez, love the father/son plan for a Savage. My son and I have done a number of those over the years and it's wonderful. It was great to see his confidence grow while I was able to slowly step back and defer to his increasing skill development. A great opportunity for that father/son relationship. Keep us posted and as always, we love the pics. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by badwolf on 08/21/20 at 18:23:26 I can remember ''helping'' my dad work on the trucks in the winter south of Buffalo. I would be stomping my feet and flaing my arms trying to keep warm, and he would be cleaning a wheel bearing in a tray of gas with his bare hands! After he retired he would ask me to help him, and goof things up on pourpose so I would take over and he could just watch. Once I rode up from Fla. on my gold wing, and as I was taking off my helmet he wants me to fix his baler! Five minutes later I was on my back welding a broken needle back together with the thing full of dry hay. When I told him to get a bucket of water, he said ''Why?'', I said in case this thing catches on FIRE! When I was working with a guy's Clydsdales and needed a hand for a week, I pulled in and told mom to pack him some clothes, he was going to be driving one of the semis and some horses. I'll never forget his face the first time he got to drive the six and eight horse hitch. Yea you never forget some bonding expernces with your father. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by ohiomoto on 08/21/20 at 18:41:10 50627D070 wrote:
$200 for a roller is cheap, not steep! Try and buy a set of wheels along with front and rear suspension for that. As for pictures... They need to be hosted to be used with the image tags. The advantage is you can post as many pictures as you want with the image tag. The disadvantage is that if you're not paying for the hosting service, they can decide to not allow them to be used on outside sites. Photobucket did this and we have a lot of posts on here that no longer have pictures. A better option in my opinion is to attach your photos to your post by uploading them with the "Choose File" button. You can only attach on file per post, but once posted, you can use them with the image tag. The best part is that they will then be hosted on suzukisavage.com and will be available as long as this site is here. This picture (not mine) was attached to another post, so now it can be used with the image tag: http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/tracker_1.JPG |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by SpamyToo on 08/21/20 at 22:35:51 That should be a fun project. "The plan is to acquire a mono shock dirt bike frame and chop, cut and rebuild it to the Savage it should have been from the factory. " I think you might not know about the bike Suzuki did make called the DR650 and DRZ400. I think that probably is what you will be aiming to mimic. I think the father and son project is totally worth it and will be a blast. Sounds like you guys have a good jump on it. edited: I sounded to much like a wise arse |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 12:11:52 Thank you guys for sharing those great father son memories. Never thought dawned on me that sometimes it's those simple memories. Thx badwolf ;) Thanks for the image upload explanation also. I'll keep the images rolling in. My son removed the rear springs after listening to me babble on about suspensions, angles, ideas and a bunch of bench racing. He now knows what a "mono shock" is vs a "dual shock" system. Very good. He used his first adjustable wrench too. The first early lessons are hard, but he sees the benefits when he gets it right. For example, I had to yell at him to get up off his a$$ and reposition himself so he could use the adjustable correctly. When he finally got up off that stool......(he loves sitting in that thing), in position, he set the adjustable so it was snug. OMG did we ever have a BLAST with righty, tighty, lefty loosy!! He was messing that up all over the place. Also, he learned that it only applies, [ when facing the bolt ] ;D ;D ;D When I came back downstairs, he was all frustrated, tightening and loosening the bolt back and forth. ;D But he learned really fast when he had the correct explanation, I was impressed. Hes sharp I love this stuff.... |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 13:01:00 Ill do some more cleaning and get the work area better. I guess $200 isnt too much to ask, but this old guys has the holy grail of vintage bikes. I mean, over 200 vintage dirt bikes just rotting in this field of vines. He's 86. Wife thinks I should buy the place... The kid was excited over the idea to walk back there so the plan is..... Bring my son and have him negotiate with the old man and see if that helps. My son does get straight A's but he still needs to learn some other lessons. What should I be looking for? This is the $200 roller that has my attention. It has a heavy duty front and rear suspension. PROBLEMS.. The rear swing arm mounts on the inside of the sub frame and the Savage swing arm mounts external to the frame. This makes me think this rear sprocket will be misaligned with the Savage motor sprocket. Otherwise, I think I can blend the two frames and make a nice naked, dual sport dirt jumper wheelie stunt bike. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 13:20:26 Inspirational Image |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 13:36:35 Kawasaki donor? |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 13:40:28 This Honda donor looks cool. Not sure if it's a disc brake but it should cost less with no matching wheels. I do like how the Mono Shock has a more standard mounting system. The swing arm also looks like it can be separated and mounted externally if that's even an option.... |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 13:44:49 Something like this? |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 13:48:28 Ennie Meenie Minie Moe |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by ohiomoto on 08/22/20 at 14:58:53 Check this thread out: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1494544603/15 and then google "Droog Moto LS650" [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWPUgel8yB4[/media] |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by ohiomoto on 08/22/20 at 15:03:24 And if you aren't tied to the monoshock, bikes were ridden off road for years with two shocks. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1371091600 http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/911ee19f179ced45269a9ab158aff22b.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by DieselBob on 08/22/20 at 17:31:00 And just to clarify, is this an off-road project only that doesn't require a registration/licensable bike? Or, does does the boneyard have titles for these projects? |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/22/20 at 19:10:45 See if there is a DR650 frame in the bone yard. With a little welding you may be able to fit the LS engine into the DR frame. How are your welding skills, because this project just is t possible without welding at some point. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 22:13:10 1D24283928233D22214D0 wrote:
Great question. The 95 Savage has a title. I want to register and insure it under this title. In Connecticut all you have to do is call the insurance company, and give them the vin ID for insurance on vintage vehicles. From there, head to the DMV for a plate. No inspections on vintage vehicles. As for the bone yard, he likely does not have a title. Perhaps we can use that as leverage for negotiations. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/22/20 at 22:38:41 5852565C575E5A530D0B0F3F0 wrote:
Not sure if I'll come across a DR650 but I think I have that Suzuki frame narrowed down to early 80's RM250 or RM465 with the Full Floater suspension. I think its the RM250 as most images ive searched come equipped with a front disc brake. Most RM465 images yield drum fronts. I have about 50 major welding projects under my belt including quarter panels on my 78 and frame modifications on my Nighthawk 750. Just learning as I go. Nothing fancy |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Dave on 08/23/20 at 03:54:20 Compared to most 2 stroke engines - the Savage engine is very tall. Trying to fit a Savage engine in a frame built for a 2 stroke bike could be a real challenge. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 08/23/20 at 07:11:10 417A7760717D66607B737E61120 wrote:
What I plan to do is use Savage frame to house the motor and blend the rear suspension, front suspension and tail into the Savage frame. The RM front forks will give me the ground clearance, rake and suspension travel I want for this build |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by SpamyToo on 08/28/20 at 01:50:01 I think most places the VIN follows the frame number so you might fall into troubles there. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Edub on 08/31/20 at 16:09:33 Wez, this sounds like an amazing project. I look forward to seeing how it plays out. Please keep posting pics, etc.! You've received some pretty solid advice on here so far. Ohiomoto is right, a dual shock setup is really doable, and the bike he shows is EXACTLY what I want to do myself, except for adding some fenders! If you are committed to going this route, it will be much easier to narrow things down if you have a good diagram of the key dimensions handy the next time you visit the boneyard. This will quickly rule out some bikes, helping to narrow your selection. It doesn't need to be a CAD drawing or anything, but something that shows mounting points, alignment requirements for the sprockets, engine mounts, and overall HxWxD dimensions for the engine. That's where I'd start. You can also trace the mounts, etc. from your Savage directly onto a piece of cardboard, and then bring that template with you; this would actually be pretty helpful. I would be very careful to read the registration rules in your state, you really don't want to run afoul of them. Some states will put people in prison for messing around with VIN's, even on your own bikes. I'd hate to see that happen to anyone. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/01/20 at 17:42:40 7556474B5F724949260 wrote:
Right! So my first option is to modify the front stem of the RM to fit into the Savage neck. Hopefully the local machine shop can help me there. I've developed a nice relationship with them over the years. They redid the heads on my nighthawk and also a pair of heads for my Nova. I know when to spend a little money and let the pros go to work. I'm pretty sure custom bearings can be purchased. These guys build tractor pull vehicles. Im optimistic that I can retain the Savage neck with the VIN ID stamped intro it. If not.... ;D Maybe we swap necks. The old guy was like, "you're lucky, it had the heavy duty front when he inspected it"..... That made me want to do this even more. I just finally learned how to restore forks. Took my three tries. But omfg what a difference a solid front suspension makes |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/01/20 at 17:56:47 4B6A7B6C0E0 wrote:
Thanks man! Thanks so much my man. Just for being so positive and encouraging! Honestly, it's posts like yours that get these bikes done!! I'll let my son know everyone here is rooting for us!! I really am in love with that full floater rear now. The literature said it really handled the train amazingly. Was high maintenance but sounds well worth it. Just what I'm looking for.....a challenge.... Also, I think it's good that my son get thrown into a complex project that actually gets done! Lots of learning hopefully. I love the idea of mock up pieces. Thanks! I might just being the frame and side by side them. What else? Hopefully I can still get that frame |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by SpamyToo on 09/02/20 at 03:17:55 I think Id try to get a 1980's Honda XL600 frame. Should already be a street legal VIN and has a mono shock. And the frame would take way way less cutting and adding to accommodate the LS650 motor. An RM 250 motor is so much smaller than the LS650 that the frame would have to be cut to pieces and run the motor like 6 inches lower than normal which would put it down on the ground. You cant easily move the frame backbone any higher without compromising a lot of its strength. And if you need to adapt forks to a frame let me know. I have several databases that will tell you what bearings you will need to make the exchange. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/02/20 at 13:27:15 7B584945517C4747280 wrote:
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! When I pick up this frame, I might start on the front suspension first, just to make sure this can happen. I will surely need some bearing cross referencing! Thats good info about the Honda frame. Never thought about that option. I am limited to what he has. Also, I'm not 100% sure this is an RM250. I have to run the VIN ID. It might be the big 465. The owner said I was lucky it had the heavy duty suspension. I think I need to walk back there again. Also, here is an image of what I plan on doing. Note that the front suspension ideally will also get swapped to the RM. I do not have Adobe to make the edits, but I'm going to hand draw the idea. I'll likely make some detailed measurements to include dimensions. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/02/20 at 14:38:15 If you do in fact have the welding skills, then you know that you should build a frame from scratch. At the very least you should simply build your own subframe. We’ve seen it a dozen times on this forum. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/03/20 at 06:45:22 53595D575C555158060004340 wrote:
Hello Gary, nice to meet you. My name also is Gary!!! Go figure. Thanks for chiming in. A custom frame would require specialty tools that can bend steel I'd imagine. I dont have access to that equipment. When I was working at a small engine repair department in high school, this mechanic could fix, every FN piece of equipment that came in the shop. One day, I asked him how he learned all his stuff. He told me, "I was a poor kid, that wanted a fast car." That guy really impacted me because that's exactly what I was. Perhaps I do have the welding skills, but not the $ nor equipment to fabricate a frame from scratch. That's why I am dedicated to this Frankenstein build. It utilizes the skills and equipment currently available to see the project all the way to the end. That's really important for projects. This Savage was given to me.....free.....I don't see why I would not use this frame , even if I have to beef it up. It currently houses the motor and motor mounts. I think I would only have to solve the rear most motor mount because it looks like the frame "blend" will need to be in that area. I wont be taking 10 foot jumps.....not at first at least ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/03/20 at 07:12:15 I think what most of you guys are saying is there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. And some of your suggestions are 100% correct for being easier. It's just I have some limitations. I don't own press brakes or those English wheels I think they're called. So old school chop and cutting here. I plan to slide solid steel rod between the two frame joints. Also drill holes into the ends of the hollow tube near the joint to catch the internal solid steel rod. As long as I get that solid rod to overlap nicely into the frame on both sides, it should be strong as balls. Especially after I weld up the joints and add filler welds into the holes to access the inner rod. Should be Gucci. Can someone please chime in on the front and rear sprocket alignment? I have never done something like this but I imagine I need the front sprocket that will be used. Install it, i can use the chain from my 750. But the rear half will have to be mocked up determine how the joining will need to be accomplished. Hopefully it's close and can be solved. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/03/20 at 07:19:34 We also removed the air box last night. My sons friend was over and I had them both in the basement working. I should of took a picture...dang it! At any rate, we covered the importance of returning bolts back into the threads of disassembled components. It saves time and money. Otherwise well bag a tag the hardware. When you reinstall the hardware into the threads where they were removed, you can come back to the parts and not have to worry about where the mounting hardware is. Sometimes small details make a big difference. This kid is almost as tall as me at 12 |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by ohiomoto on 09/03/20 at 11:12:53 You never know if a it's a good plan until you try it! (And sometimes we know it's a bad plan an try it anyways. :) ) I would take the pegs and rear brake pedal with the rear suspension. I think the hardest part is that the swing arm bolt should go through the back of the engine. The engine adds a lot of strength t to the frame by design. |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/03/20 at 13:49:36 3532333537352E355A0 wrote:
Love the second half of that quote! The frame has what it has remaining on it. Maybe he'll throw in some small parts if I can search them out. He'll definitely want the whole $200 at that point. Didn't even think about that linkage. Hopefully the small details can be ebayed. Idealy the rear will get a disc conversion if possible...Thanks for that piece of information about the swing arm bolt also mounting the engine. What I'll do next is install the engine into the frame and see if this can really be done. That piece of info actually might make or break this project. If the swing arm bolt does not line up with the engine mount then I'll look into fabricating a new way to install motor mounts. If that's the biggest hurdle, then this is starting to look better. Thanks ohio! |
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Title: Re: Savage Dual Sport Post by Wez on 09/03/20 at 13:58:20 Found this image from member grail21 Maybe I can see what he did for the rear motor mount.... |
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