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Message started by SavageMan99 on 07/18/20 at 09:46:17

Title: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/18/20 at 09:46:17
Diode / Nuetral safety function?
How does it work?
Is it a ground source to allow decomp controller function?
If not, what does it do?

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by Dave on 07/18/20 at 12:28:15
It works in conjunction with the side stand safety switch and relay.

I am not exactly sure what the routing and interface is - but if you don't have the kick stand up......the engine will die if you pull in the clutch and shift the bike into a gear.

And you cannot get the starter to work unless the clutch lever is pulled in.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by verslagen1 on 07/18/20 at 14:37:47
You see, it's simple...
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/images/Diode%20safety%20circuit.jpg

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/19/20 at 09:21:50
Thank you! I have printed, color coded diagrams. But how it controls things is perplexing and vexing me.
I have removed the clutch and sidestand switches. I use only the neutral switch on my Ugly Bob.  I plan on rebuilding the wire harness with all new wire, following the OEM color codes.  
Understanding the diode would help.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/19/20 at 09:26:34
Why does the relay provide power twice to the same wire?
Why do the side stand and the nuetral switch both provide a ground?

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/19/20 at 12:49:09

7C4E594E484A624E4116162F0 wrote:
Why does the relay provide power twice to the same wire?
Why do the side stand and the nuetral switch both provide a ground?



The only grounds I see in that circuit are the side stand switch and the engine stop switch. Unfortunately the above diagram is a block diagram so I don’t see what the diode is isolating. My guess would be the neutral light, this way a blown bulb doesn’t trigger an open circuit condition.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by verslagen1 on 07/19/20 at 21:13:25

586A7D6A6C6E466A6532320B0 wrote:
Thank you! I have printed, color coded diagrams. But how it controls things is perplexing and vexing me.
I have removed the clutch and sidestand switches. I use only the neutral switch on my Ugly Bob.  I plan on rebuilding the wire harness with all new wire, following the OEM color codes.  
Understanding the diode would help.


The FSM shows what the circuitry is.
Maybe clymers shows it how it is... I'm not going to look unless I need to.

The neutral switch provides ground for the light and for the side stand relay.
How can that be? the side stand switch does that?
the diodes separate the 2 circuits prevents them from over riding each other.

If you're only going to use the neutral switch to turn on the light, then you don't need the relay or diode.
If you're only to keep the safety, you don't need the diode.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/20/20 at 09:53:58
That helps. Thank you.
I'll put the nuetral switch to ground the starter solenoid and the nuetral light then.
Do I need to isolate the solenoid? I believe the second wire that connects to it is black and white, so that is likely the ground to it, normally controlled by the decompression control box.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by verslagen1 on 07/20/20 at 10:11:52

4A786F787E7C5478772020190 wrote:
That helps. Thank you.
I'll put the nuetral switch to ground the starter solenoid and the nuetral light then.
Do I need to isolate the solenoid? I believe the second wire that connects to it is black and white, so that is likely the ground to it, normally controlled by the decompression control box.


This is not a good place to mix up the terminology.

we don't have a starter solenoid.  typically used in the auto industry.  it slides the starter gear into the flywheel.
we have a starter relay which provides electricity to the motor.

AND I don't know if the neutral switch can handle the current thru the starter relay, it's not normally connected to it.
might be an interesting use of the side stand relay though if you still wanted a starter safety.  
But again, I don't know how much current it can handle.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/24/20 at 08:41:42
It is up and working. I am using the neutral switch to control the OEM relay, with both the relay and neutral light having power at all times with the key on.
The starter circuit runs through the relay and is normally open until the nuetral switch grounds the relay.
No clutch, sidestand or any other starter safety's involved.
No decompression controller.
I'm going to try a lever off a Suzuki King Quad LT-F on the decompression shaft.
Thank you for the input on the diode.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/24/20 at 08:52:07
I also extended the wires that go from the left bar control to the right bar control and added a plug between them, under the seat.
That plus some work to the ground and hot circuits so that I have the lights and the starting/ ignition circuits separated and able to be each removed individually.
I made two hot outputs with plugs, one from each fuse, to each wire harness.
I added 3 individual ground leads, plus a spare, direct to the engine. Each harness, plus the "ignition box" are grounded separately.
Some day I will buy enough oem wire color code wire to redo it with less splices and solder.
For crimps I used plain 14ga spade terminals to put the wire into and then broke the spades off.
Everything is wrapped in 3M tape, then Gorilla cloth tape.
Hopefully hopeful ...

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/24/20 at 11:43:10
Any pics would be most appreciated. I plan to redo most eof the electrical system on my bike eventually and replace the starter solenoid/relay with a P-channel mosfet module (I prefer solid state)

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/24/20 at 14:30:31
I'm afraid it would just be a pic if an ugly bob with a taped up harness.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by SavageMan99 on 07/25/20 at 08:05:42
Here is a crude idea of some of what I did.
The tool is what I use to take terminals out of the pesky Suzuki connectors.  The drill bits need to be less than an 1/8 inch.
Use the smooth end, and make sure it fits in the small groove of the terminal retainer.
A small screw driver with the wide sides ground off works great on regular spade terminals.
Keep the metal cool as you grind these. I use a little bit of oil to keep dipping them in.
If it turns blue, redo.

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/20 at 08:47:36
I wreck feeler gauges when Im building some things,, A good set of shears to get a rough shape,, hammer it back flat, smooth and finish on the grinder,,

Title: Re: Diode / Neutral Safety function
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/26/20 at 00:20:42

1426312620220A26297E7E470 wrote:
Here is a crude idea of some of what I did.
The tool is what I use to take terminals out of the pesky Suzuki connectors.  The drill bits need to be less than an 1/8 inch.
Use the smooth end, and make sure it fits in the small groove of the terminal retainer.
A small screw driver with the wide sides ground off works great on regular spade terminals.
Keep the metal cool as you grind these. I use a little bit of oil to keep dipping them in.
If it turns blue, redo.


Thank you. It will help me (and hopefully others) a lot :)

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