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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1591658816 Message started by Jdvt600 on 06/08/20 at 16:26:56 |
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Title: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Jdvt600 on 06/08/20 at 16:26:56 Hello everyone. Can anyone speak to the performance difference between light and super light? I'm looking at my wish list of upgrades and the flywheel mod @Armen and crew have created is one I'd like to tackle soon. Is there any testimony as to the observable difference between the light and super light flywheels? I see a few folks posted in the marketplace that the light upgrade was tested and works well from the stock. Is the difference to the super light from the light pretty noticeable, or is it negligible and mostly to serve weight reduction? |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Armen on 06/08/20 at 16:32:54 DBM wrote about this as did Dave. I was overly cautious when I did my flywheel (the first one). After that, they got lighter and lighter. DBM basically turned the piece into a spacer :-0 As Dave found out, there is plenty of flywheel effect left in the bike. Crank, alternator, balance shaft, clutch basket, etc. I made a bunch of the ultra light ones and no one has complained. One day I'll dig my not-so-light one back out and install an ultra-light. Revs faster, more engine braking, and the bike changes direction easier. Total chick magnet 8-) |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Jdvt600 on 06/08/20 at 16:39:30 LOL, well that's a no brainer then! Thanks @Armen. I wasn't sure if it was done for the extreme weight reduction riders or if there was a noticeable difference between the light and super light. I saw Dave's comment on the light "prototype" in the marketplace post. But didn't see any mention of the super light. So DBM and Dave tried both of them and found the super light to have even better throttle response and get all the chicks? |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by DragBikeMike on 06/09/20 at 01:03:16 The small 3" version works fine for me. I haven't noticed any adverse effects. Armen's explanation pretty much covers it. BTW, I don't use mine as a "chick magnet", already have all the chick (singular) I can handle. Best thing that ever happened to me. 8-) This old post should give you an idea as to what's involved. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1529391534 Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Jdvt600 on 06/09/20 at 19:22:06 @DragBikeMike that is exactly the information I was looking for! Specifically this part, "Is it worth it if you are already running a lightened flywheel? I don't know. But if you have a stock wheel, I wouldn't hold back. Take it all the way down to 3.000"." I did try searching on "flywheel" before I posted. I must have not done it correctly. Tyvm for the link. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Zepp on 06/10/20 at 13:02:54 "Hello everyone. Can anyone speak to the performance difference between light and super light?" It doesnt do anything about the bike performans.. exept that your engin drops revs faster on a lighter flyweel, Dont do anything like that.. becuse, I think that some Suzuki enginer or more have thoght about this. In anycase.. its a big thumper, it need some engin inertia to going around at least on low to middle revs, for comfort riding! I beg you, dont ruin this bigh thumper engin.. you dont get better performance of a lighter flyweel you get some faster gear shifting.. and bad performance on low to middle range! |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Armen on 06/10/20 at 13:20:27 So, there you have it-positive reviews form everyone who has done it, and incoherent babble from someone who hasn't. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by verslagen1 on 06/10/20 at 13:24:30 Armen, I got one of the not so light flywheels from you. Really didn't notice a difference mainly cause I did another change as well and that was counter productive. And now that everything is fixed, it's been too long to notice a difference. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Dave on 06/10/20 at 13:56:54 When I installed the prototype “medium” sized flywheel - my seat of the pants dyno didn’t notice any change either. The good news is that my 0-60 time dropped from 5.5 seconds to 5.0. The fact that you can’t feel a difference is likely a good thing, as the engine hasn’t developed any bad quirks after the swap. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Armen on 06/10/20 at 13:59:35 Kevin Cameron of Cycle World wrote a column to that effect. Talked about a change that shaved 1/2 second a lap off a bike and the rider thought the bike seemed more tame, not faster. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Zepp on 06/10/20 at 14:31:59 62514E464D230 wrote:
I cant figure out wish to answer but I think I got that was me? In anycase.. im a formar race mecanics.. amatheur but anyway.. and to that kind of mecanical enginer.. lowest grade! In anycase, my brother that was the driver/ownwer.. what ever, bout a lighter flyweel to his car,, everone other seems to have done this! The performace of his car didnt get that much beter.. mayby he wasnt that good driver? In anycase, as a near to mecanical enginer, I study whats and reding a lot.. its almoste about get a swifter gear shift.. not about the overall performance of the car! Lower inertia in the engin make it to drop revs faster.. to get in another gear! Thats very importante on a racing track! Are you going to put this bike on a racing track? Im kind of experianced on that to, but cars,, cut alla weigt down, cut anything that nots importante down,, make the driver lose at least 10 pound! Its about the inertia of the car/bike, thats much importante both for the overall performance, braking and curb handeling! IE.. its big thumper, it need some engine inertia, and balance axcells, to go smothly on normal riding. One can get a lot of more performance on this bike if the driver lose 10 pounds! IE I altso could need to lose 10 pounds, but merely becuse of old age and healt reasons! Its a big thumper.. low weight bike, low HP.. high torque engin, it sutes my fine. To the defend of this bike and the engin, its a cruiser bike. Soo I have kind of problem to put in fift gear. almoste doing a double stroke. And I have answered that to in another tread,, higer speed, leaning more backward on my whole body, my leaft foot folows,. it get a bit uncomfortably.. only a bit! |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Jdvt600 on 06/10/20 at 15:07:59 Thanks for the information everyone. The subject of this post was to ask the difference between light and super light, perceived or measured. The thread DBM linked as well as a few responses here absolutely provided that answer. Me personally, I'm only interested to hear first hand from riders who have performed the upgrade. That said, @Zepp Thank you for your input as well. The great thing about this bike is it didn't cost $10,000. For the initial investment I made, I'm willing to install a modified flywheel an experienced rider here on the forums fabricated and tested themselves. I'm well aware of rider weight and how it applies to the ride. Which is why I asked if the super light flywheel was only to cater to people who are shaving weight off their bike, or, if there was a measurable difference in performance. If @Dave or @Armen only had one type in stock, I wanted to know the trade offs (if any) in ordering and installing one vs the other. Thank you all for the replies. I now have the info I need to make a better informed purchase. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Zepp on 06/12/20 at 09:23:57 I thoght that you alredy boght you a LS 650 or a S40? In any case I bought my a LS 650 for about 2000 dollars! And the flyweel thing.. im alredy put out my stanse about this bike,it needs the flyweel if one like to drive it as a normal bike. And to that, there is a lot of treads anyhow to make this bike to anything tha§t it was not though to be! Soo im still pretend to go in a defend of this bike,, its a big thumper, its kind of cruiser bike!! If one dont love that, buy any other bike! And to that.. if one get stuck on this bike, there are several mods to do, if one want to, but sinceerly.. culdnt one buye another bike on the first case! Soo telling the trought, its a cheap bike to owne/to buy! Its a big thumper.. kind of a half Hareley.. its a beginners´cruiser! I dont need a Harley anyhow.. i dont hate them, some of my friends own one, its the same coste as my house! Other friends drive Dukati Diavlo, another bought him a new Triumph Truxton.. dont care! |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by LANCER on 06/12/20 at 18:14:53 I believe I got one of the early flywheels that Armen did, either 3 or 4 lbs., and the difference in spin up of the engine is quite noticeable. I like it. I have not had the chance to try the mini version (1 lb. ?) but if any are available I might like to try that as well, or perhaps just the spacer. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Dave on 06/13/20 at 03:42:02 Before Armen started machining flywheels, the issue was sometimes discussed on the forum. I was on the side of "caution", as I believed the big thumper needed a lot of rotating mass - why would Suzuki put in a big flywheel if it wasn't needed? Now I am pretty well convinced that the flywheel really isn't necessary for everyone. If you are a new rider just learning to get a bike moving from a stop without stalling the engine I believe the extra mass may help you avoid stalling the bike. If you are someone who rides over rough roads in first gear at low engine rpm.......I suspect you will get some benefit from the flywheel. If you live in an area with sub-zero temperatures the flywheel mass may even help you to get the bike started (when the battery is a bit weak, the oil is thick as molasses and the fuel doesn't like to vaporize). For those of us who have been riding for years and obtained the ability to use a clutch, ride in warm weather and ride smooth pavement - the stock flywheel really isn't necessary. With the stock flywheel removed there is still a large amount of rotating mass to keep the engine operating smoothly. The crankshaft is heavy, the magnetic rotor on the left side of the crankshaft is heavy, the counter balancer is heavy and rotates at twice the engine speed.......there is plenty of rotating mass! I suspect Suzuki installed this flywheel to make the bike easier to ride and more "cruisier".........most cruiser motorcycles lack the ability accelerate at a blinding pace. The Suzuki DR650 engine has better performance and does not include this extra flywheel. Everyone who has installed the lighter flywheel has not detected any negative affects from the change. The engine still runs smooth, the engine does not start any harder, the steadiness of the cruise is not affected - the only change has been the ability of the engine to gain rpm a bit faster. While the overall change in acceleration is not drastic, it is a useful tool for those who want a bit better acceleration. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Armen on 06/13/20 at 06:48:07 Thanks for the well written comments, Dave. I got the idea of lightening the flywheel on the Savage after cutting umpteen flywheels for Ducatis. I'd knock anywhere from a couple pounds to a lot of pounds (depending on which model the flywheel came from) off of the Duc flywheels. No complaints ever. We did install an aluminum race flywheel on my bud's 900SS, and swapped back to the steel one. The aluminum one weighed only 8 ounces, as opposed to maybe 4 pounds for a light steel one. The bike had trouble idling, and was prone to stall on a hard stop. Not a prob on the track, but no fun on the street. I've also installed light flywheels on a lot of Airhead BMWs. BMW put in progressively lighter flywheels for many years, until they went to essentially a stamped steel clutch carrier in '81. Honestly, the light BMW flywheels are prob too light. The bikes now vibrate a bit, which is one thing a heavy flywheel can dampen. I don't do light Ducati flywheels any more, simply because Ducati now use light flywheels in most of their bikes. Duc decided that there was no need for the boat anchors any more. Suzuki realized that a lot of the folks being the bikes would be beginners and prob not meticulous about maintenance. The boat anchor flywheel makes for a bike more likely to idle well even if out of tune. Like it says in my tag line "In theory, theory and realty are the same thing, in reality, they aren't." Theoretically, the bikes might need the heavy flywheel, in reality, they don't. My problem now is that I no longer have access to a CNC mill, so the machining would have to be done on my manual machines, which would take way too much time. |
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Title: Re: Lightened Flywheel (Light vs Super Light) Post by Zepp on 06/13/20 at 09:14:20 Its this.. this forum is best! Many old bikers/LS 650/S40 owners a lot of experiance! IE I think the Suzuki enginers put on this flyweel to make it easyer to handle, at least for newbies? Now comes some of my middle age experiance, some of my friends got girl friends.. I dont know way, but some of them wanted there own bike, to get riding along there boyfriends. Soo, in this years, some bought Yamaha SR 500, a nice bike, a big thumper a beginners bike! In anyway.. it altso was a big thumper, and to that.. mayby becuse of newbie and not that much biking skills, they got those "käringstop", I cant find an english word for it? In any way, the engin stoped dead after a stop when trying go after there boyfriends. IE, as a newbie on LS650, I altso hade some episods of "käringstops", mayby one can call this "girl stops?".. IE Im supose to be a experianced biker.. leason learnd, one need to use the gashandel and sliping a bit on the coupling anyway to get the bike runing? At least, I got some old girl biker friends, they got much bigger bikes then mee, and they have riding a lot more then I have! Summarised.. im kind of newbie, long time no riding, Im reluctante to have a big mass inertia in the engin for smoth riding! In any case.. experianced riders dont need that, that much? Sooo, the Suzuki enginers put the flyweel there for some purpose, mayby for newbies? Soooo nr 2. ther are some more experianced bikers that still riding a LS650/S40, they have coming to the best forum, they can have a lot of advices about doing any mods to this wonderfull bike,, but dont do it a Bobber.. please! |
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