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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Can't find info for my carb strange situation /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1591328606 Message started by astrozombie on 06/04/20 at 20:43:26 |
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Title: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/04/20 at 20:43:26 I just joined and was told by fellow members to post here (I hope I am not violating the protocols). BLUF: I pulled the EPA plug out of my carb and the pilot screw does nothing. Background: I found a 2001 Savage which was purchased new by an older gentleman and promptly parked in a barn. 714 miles. It is immaculate. Details: I changed the oil, spark plug, air filter, and gas because the bike hasn't been ridden in almost 20 years. I also took the carb off and broke it down (three times now) and used carb and choke cleaner and my air compressor to try to clean the circuits. It runs. When idling, the bike indicates (to my weekend warrior motorcycle mechanic mind) that it is too rich. Black smoke, gassy smelling exhaust, and the plug is fouled quickly. After enough idling the bike ceases to run and I have to clean the plug. I pulled out the EPA plug to get to the pilot screw. I was thrilled until I screwed the pilot screw all the way in and nothing changed. My understanding is that when the pilot screw is all the way in, fuel should be cutoff, like my other motorcycles. The bike keeps running rich. Whether all the way in or turned out 1 1/2 times (recommended) there is no change in the idle or the signs indicating it is too rich. I took the o-ring, washer and spring off and screwed it back in to see if would seat better. Nothing. The bike seems to run fine at the mid-range and full throttle when the needle and main jets are actuated (as I understand carburetors). I was at my local Suzuki shop today and the mechanic unfortunately had no recommendations for solving this other than cleaning the carb (again!). I can't find help online for this either. I appreciate any insights because I want this awesome bike to run optimally. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by batman on 06/04/20 at 21:50:42 The fuel screw doesn't cut of all the fuel from the idle jet ,as there are two openings , and the screw only blocks one of them . ( look inside the carb on the on the outlet of the throttle plate at the 10 O' clock and see two small holes ,the fuel screw only regulates one, - the single hole a 2 O'clock is the choke outlet). Before doing anything we need to know ,your jet sizes, and if there has been the white spacer mod, and what was done , as well as what you're running for an air filter ,air box /intake, and muffler. A motor runs fairly normal at higher speeds even if to rich, but will still foul the sparkplug. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/04/20 at 22:06:28 Batman, Thanks for the prompt response! As far as I know, and the seller told me, everything on the bike is factory. This is my first adventure into Mikuni vacuum carbs and I am learning. I live in Pennsylvania which requires a state safety inspection. I just bought the bike and I have an appointment tomorrow morning to get it inspected so it is street legal. My plan is to get it to pass and really dig in, so I am not going to break it down tonight even though it is running sub-optimally at idle. What do you think is the best way forward when I get it back? |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/20 at 22:10:05 Idle speed lower than about 1100rpm leads to cam failure.. But, for adjusting the screw under the cap Go for a ride,get it warmed up Then drop the idle Then adjust that screw |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/04/20 at 22:33:47 Justin, I appreciate the response. I'm just figuring this bike out so here is what I have done: I have the idle screw cranked down all the way in order to bring the RPMs up at idle. I have read that people like to turn it down to sound like a Harley (which it isn't). I don't have a tachometer but it doesn't sound obnoxious. Unfortunately, I can't go screaming around the neighborhood until after tomorrow afternoon because of PA State inspection laws. Are you suggesting I grab a screw driver and mess around with it until I get a decent tune on the carb? I am looking for any experienced advice as I move forward. v/r Matt |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by DragBikeMike on 06/04/20 at 23:21:47 Greetings Matt. The idle circuit is pretty simple, and you got the bike with the EPA plug installed. Seems unlikely that anyone has messed with it. If anything, it should be lean. If it's grossly rich at idle with the mixture screw at 1-1/2 turns, I don't think your idle circuit is the problem.....unless the pilot jet is loose. Even then, I don't think that would make your idle grossly rich, but off-idle would be rich. Are you positive that your enricher is shut off, is it pushed ALL the way in? Check the enricher and make sure it is All the way in. If it feels like it is all the way in, remove it and inspect it. Make sure the plunger bore in the carb isn't full of residue that would make the plunger stick or hang up. Make sure the seating surface in the bottom of the plunger bore is clean and smooth. Inspect the rubber seat in the plunger. Make sure that it is in good condition and can properly close off the enrichment circuit. This is the plunger bore and seating surface. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by DragBikeMike on 06/04/20 at 23:23:56 See the black rubber disc in the end of the plunger. Make sure it is in good condition. Make sure the plunger is clean and smooth. It must move freely in the bore and make good contact with the seat in the bottom of the bore. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by DragBikeMike on 06/04/20 at 23:35:00 Verify that your float needle & seat aren't leaking by. Turn the carburetor upside down and gently blow into the fuel hose. It should hold air with just the weight of the float closing the needle & seat. You gotta use your mouth for this test so make sure the hose is clean. If it's leaking you will be able to tell, you will feel it leak down. Make sure your petcock diaphragm isn't rotted out. If the diaphragm has a hole in it, fuel will leak down the vacuum hose and directly into your intake manifold. That would be the vacuum hose that connects to this hose nipple on the right side of the carb (just below your mixture screw). |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/05/20 at 04:09:17 6D6B64181A1D19290 wrote:
I think we have a winner. This is a fairly simple test. The petcock shouldn’t flow fuel with the engine off. If fuel flows from the fuel line, the petcock has failed. The fuel you are smelling is probably coming from the breather vent because fuel has leaked into your oil. Remove the oil fill cap and see if the oil smells like fuel. If the petcock has failed, a replacement petcock from a Yamaha Raptor has proven to be a bette replacement. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by ohiomoto on 06/05/20 at 06:30:33 I'm with DBM and GIJ. The bike should run halfway decent with the stock settings. If it doesn't then you have bigger fish to fry than jetting. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/05/20 at 13:05:34 Alright Fellas, I followed your recommendations. The fuel enrichment circuit is good. I drove 50 miles one way to the nearest Yamaha dealership that had a petcock in stock and picked up an OEM one. I put it on, covered the vacuum on the carb, and the bike started fine. The pilot screw still does nothing when adjusted or turned all the way in. Is this normal? Additionally, EVERY TIME I turn off the bike, there is a one second pause than an enormous backfire. My wife is getting pissed every time I do it which is kind of funny. I have not taken it on the road yet because I don't want to have to reassemble then disassemble again if it is something I can fix now. Thanks! Modification to my earlier post: I get tunnel vision sometimes. My wife said to me "Isn't it idling really high?" I had jacked the idle screw all the way down in order for it to run. I adjusted until it sounded close to correct and this has diminished the backfire. Now I get a mild puff. I think it is time to put it together and hit the road. I'll report on the consequences. Thanks again! v/r Matt |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/05/20 at 13:35:58 The pilot screw still does nothing when adjusted or turned all the way in. Is this normal? While the Idle screw is set high, yes, that wont be adjustable.. Gotta set the idle low,, and have it warmed up AND turn the screw S L O W LEE.. NOt a bad plan to have the bikke as close to vertical as possible and if it takes too long, hop on, ride around Dont sit there and let it get too hot,,,,I did mine at stop lites.. No hurries,, 1100 RPM,, Idle speed,, If you can idle in first and be runnin 10 MPH,, thats about right, IIRC,, Of course if thats even slightly uphill,, then its getting too much gas, Level ground, no headwind,, |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by ohiomoto on 06/05/20 at 13:48:25 A mild puff is normal. Pull the choke right before hitting the kill switch if it bothers you or your wife. As JOG pointed out idle speed is a little high compared to a HD at 1100 rpm but don't go lower or you'll starve you camshaft of oil. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/05/20 at 15:12:12 If you are getting a giant backfire (not the usual pop), check to make sure your header pipe is properly torqued at the head. I notice that I only get a big backfire when the header pipe is loose. It happens often and is now something I regularly check. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/05/20 at 15:51:23 Gentlemen, It's running like a dream! I just had it out on the road and no issues. It was the petcock the entire time. I want to extend my sincere gratitude to all you for your expertise and generosity with your information. I got a helluva bike with only 700 miles on it and am happy the summer is here. Thanks again for everything. v/r Matt |
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Title: .Reply Post by Zepp on 06/06/20 at 07:57:14 It was this forum that made me buying a LS 650 2000 for penaut money. And mayby.. im old and know about to buing a alredy used bike/car! To that.. im not sure that its a petcock isiue, not the petcock anyhow, mayby some other issuises that got solved. Soo I got other sugestions.. an old bike, rust in the tank/E!0 fuel, gonna get more water in to it! In anycase. its a carburated bike.. carburatours have a lot of problems, if one dont use the engin every day! Did you buy a new petkock or did you only clean the filters? |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/06/20 at 10:24:28 Zepp, I bought an OEM Yamaha Raptor 660 petcock like I was recommended to do and all my problems went away. v/r Matt |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/20 at 10:33:01 495B5C5A475247454A414D280 wrote:
I think Im gonna go get a dozen.. I dont think one will solve all my problems,, |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by Zepp on 06/06/20 at 12:21:06 [quote author=6E7C7B7D607560626D666A0F0 link=1591328606/15#16 date=1591464268]Zepp, I bought an OEM Yamaha Raptor 660 petcock like I was recommended to do and all my problems went away. v/r Matt[/quote I like that you reding a lot on this forum. its the best if one have LS650 or a S40, cant find any better! And to that.. there are several treads on any other problems.. about having a bike, perticaly about having a LS650 or an S40! In anycase, your problems like to have dissapered, buy a lottare ticket, it could mean that you got lucky! And to that.. dont hope that much about that.. its mostly about your petcock swtch.. did you emtpy your tank and carburator, befor you get a new peckcock to it? And to the suposed that it going to rich.. it must beeing that you adjusted the carburator to that? And to almoste any other case, some person buy this bike.. its rader more like to get leeen, becuse of dirt in the carburator.. its the mane cause! In any case.. its vacum petcock. check the tubes! In all other ways.. change the petcock make you do a lot of other things, mayby this was the solution To that, this bike is as simple and sturdie as one preserv it as! In anyway.. get lucky and have a good riding. I cant find any thing that a new petcock could make your bike run leaner.. in anycase, dont bother, anything that got right is a solution! |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/06/20 at 15:53:19 Zepp, Is there a way to change the petcock without draining the tank? Even if you disconnect the tank and turn it up-side-down, it’s gonna mostly empty. Quite a mess that method. Also Zepp, the condition described is classic petcock failure. Yes, there could be further improvement with a carb cleaning and proper jetting, but the over riding problem - a non running bike - has been solved. With a running bike the OP can focus on improvements. |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by astrozombie on 06/06/20 at 21:47:25 Zepp, I need to be more precise in my language. The issues with my Savage that I was having seems to have cleared up with the new petcock. I've been riding it for the past two days and it runs like a dream. I had cleaned out the gas tank and carb but to no avail. The recommendations of more experienced Savage riders on this forum steered me to the correct solution (I appreciate the humor justin_o_guy2. I wish a petcock would fix my life's problems!). I am a novice with the Savage. Keep hitting up the guys who know more. They are generous and timely with their knowledge. Good luck. v/r Matt |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/20 at 11:21:08 (I appreciate the humor justin_o_guy2. Look Guys! One! Finally! Maybe I should retire,, Just call me JOG,, no sense typin all that junk ,, Besides, the forum wont let ya say not a very nice person..s0, JOG will do |
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Title: Re: Can't find info for my carb strange situation Post by IslandRoad on 06/07/20 at 17:50:03 5D4244435E5968586850424E05370 wrote:
Well, I guess the only way from here .... is down! 8-) |
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