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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Hydroxy increased mortality rates
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Message started by Eegore on 05/30/20 at 12:59:42

Title: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 05/30/20 at 12:59:42

I know I didn't post the statements from the cardiology assessment team here but had indicated that they mentioned the potential risks. One such comment among 38 that said the same thing:

C18H26ClN3O both with the inclusion and exclusion of macrolide will induce in portions of the population abnormal arrhythmia. The absence of CT (Clinical Trials) will likely provide dangerous anecdotal outcomes if a placebo and control group is not used.

Turns out cardiologists know more about human hearts than people who have never even seen a human heart but instead read excerpts from the internet.

The initial study referenced by the White House was the result of 108 vaccinated adults. Again that's 108.

The latest study consists of 671 hospitals in six continents.
Date span: Dec 20, 2019, and April 14, 2020.
96,032 patients.
Mean age 53.8 years, 46.3% female
All confirmed laboratory SARS-COV-2 with chloroquine treatment within 48 hours.
Patients who received remdesivir were excluded.
1868 received chloroquine: 3783 received chloroquine with a macrolide
3016 received hydroxychloroquine: 6221 received hydroxychloroquine with a macrolide.
81[ch8200]144 patients were in the control group.

10[ch8200]698 patients died in hospital = 11.1%
Control group mortality = 9.3%

De-novo ventricular arrhythmia during hospitalization increased slightly with the use of both Chloroquine/Hydroxychloroquine with or without macrolides.

Specific issues were found, and a Cox model was utilized:

“A Cox proportional hazards model was fit for time to death, controlling for treatment group and potential confounders (age [ch8805]65 years, sex, hospital, diabetes, chronic lung disease, cardiovascular disease [CVD, including hypertension, coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure], respiratory rate >22/min, O2 saturation <90%, abnormal chest imaging findings, aspartate aminotransferase [AST]>40 U/L, and elevated creatinine levels) based on a priori plausibility, documented associations with death or hydroxychloroquine administration from previous studies, bivariate associations within our data, ruling out collinearity using condition indices, and missingness of less than 10%"

https://www.clinicalkey.com/#!/content/playContent/1-s2.0-S1473309920302966?returnurl=https:%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS1473309920302966%3Fshowall%3Dtrue&referrer=https:%2F%2Fwww.thelancet.com%2Fjournals%2Flancet%2Farticle%2FPIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6%2Ffulltext

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

Now this information, open for peer review, is for 96 thousand patients and includes a control group. Hydroxychloroquine has, at this time, an increased rate of causing heart-problems leading to death.

This doesn’t mean Hydroxychloroquine isn’t somewhat effective in certain capacities, in specific demographics, but it does outline why a “study” of 108 patients is not enough to go around saying any drug is going to help.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/30/20 at 15:33:12

Its so dangerous that the left, who despise TRump, have gone crazy because he is taking it..

Filed in the
Shitthat makes ya go Huhh?

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 05/30/20 at 16:07:20

Nobody I know cares if Trump is taking it. The study here was concluded before that announcement was even made.

If his heart can take it, he should be fine I would think.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by srinath on 05/30/20 at 17:51:09

Long term HCQ also causes amnesia and other mental symptoms, and needless to say heart needs to be healthy for most of these anti viral/malarial - you understand your body is well a closed system, like a car. You floor it cos you wanna get past that truck, you lose AC for a few seconds. It redirects things, can only create a little bit by itself.
Like vaccines for example - they make you more immune to those weakened viruses in the vaccine. You show a whole new virus or a bacteria and you're more vulnerable.

This is why a lot of recent flu related epidemics had highest fatalities in the vaccinated population. The immune system is heavily leveraged against the 3-5 strains in the vaccine because that's what the mathematically predicted models said would be most common, a virus not in that concoction shows up, and the vaccinated population is less able to fight it than the unvaccinated population.

HCQ is no different. More fight against china virus but less for heart or brain.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 05/30/20 at 18:19:08

The ontogeny of the active immune response would say different but I don't want to get into the vaccine conversation.

This is like the other post saying toxic "mercury" is in vaccines which is false. Looking up Methylmercury versus Ethylmercury would prove that in about 5 minutes. I assume it's best nobody do that so they can keep saying toxic mercury is in vaccines.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/20 at 15:13:48

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/06/04/lancet-retracts-medical-study-critical-of-hydroxychloroquine-designed-for-political-purposes/

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/04/20 at 16:17:49

This is good to see. This would be a perfect example of why I am always saying we need peer-reviewed, or at least available for review references.

One issue is most of the data is actually available even though the primary article says it is not. For instance this is independently verified:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

"Retrospective multicenter cohort study of patients from a random sample of all admitted patients with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 in 25 hospitals, representing 88.2% of patients with COVID-19 in the New York metropolitan region. Eligible patients were admitted for at least 24 hours between March 15 and 28, 2020. Medications, preexisting conditions, clinical measures on admission, outcomes, and adverse events were abstracted from medical records. The date of final follow-up was April 24, 2020."

This grouping, among others still has a higher mortality rate, specific to heart-related issues, if they had hydroxychloroquine in their system. This is why the cardiology team I am working with anyway feels the way they do.

However the larger overall numbers do not meet COPE standards and should be retracted.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/05/20 at 11:07:09

Aaaand another one

https://www.newser.com/story/291846/a-second-major-covid-study-is-retracted.html

Sometimes I think people are just goin outta their way to set up bullshit to sell the people..

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/05/20 at 11:36:00

"Sometimes I think people are just goin outta their way to set up bullshit to sell the people.."

You think? When has this not happened? Take a look at the "National Gazette" and George Washington.

This is the importance of having referenced material available for peer review. Incidentally we never even took Surgisphere into account because they wouldn't respond to source material inquiry. They literally never said a word.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/05/20 at 13:30:12

Well, E,, Ive seen reports that the drug has been being used for a very long time, fighting malaria,, If anything else,, IDK,, But, if its dangerous, is that because of the additional stuff,, like the Z pack and whatever else they added for fighting CV?

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/05/20 at 14:01:58

From what verifiable data I've seen it is pretty safe for the majority, even those using it for arthritis which is it's other most consistent use besides and anti-malarial.

That being said it has been known to cause some heart problems, however in this case I do not have enough information to say anything else increases that risk.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by srinath on 06/05/20 at 14:32:02

HCQ with prolonged use also causes amnesia like symptoms - how come I am not hearing that at all. In effect short term like 2-4 week run like we need for china virus would be a pretty low concern. In effect HCQ is for people in near high risk situations.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/05/20 at 20:04:34

"HCQ with prolonged use also causes amnesia like symptoms - how come I am not hearing that at all."

You mean why aren't you hearing about long-term symptoms in patients who have been taking HCQ for a short period? They haven't been taking it long-term.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by srinath on 06/06/20 at 05:41:44

0525272F3225400 wrote:

That's not what I meant - when you get on it for malaria prevention like they used to for people trying to go live in India or other countries with Malaria - they warn them of possible side effects. As in - first dose comes with amnesia warning. Why're we not hearing that, I hear heart heart etc. No amnesia.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/06/20 at 06:07:13

I'm not sure where you are getting your data but amnesia is on pretty much everything I see. I don't see it under SARS-COV-2 related information because it hasn't been around enough to give SARS-COV-2 patient's amnesia symptoms.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by srinath on 06/06/20 at 06:18:02

But its caused heart failure already ? I'd suspect those people were already failing heart.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/06/20 at 07:49:37

"But its caused heart failure already ? I'd suspect those people were already failing heart."

Our cardiology team suggests otherwise. It has been known that people without indications of heart disease have side-effects that effect the heart after taking a medication. HCQ is one of those drugs.

It's like saying people have amnesia type symptoms because they already had failing memory. This may be true, but the percentage increases at an accelerated rate if HCQ is taken.

So yes maybe the heart was already failing, which when we think about it is true for every human at some scale, so in theory all heart related deaths are attributed to a failing heart. The question is at what point is a medication causing it to be faster than normal.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/20 at 09:25:36

So, with the evidence showing the side effects of vaccines, now what?
No more vaccines? Or, admit that HCQ CAN have side effects,, and also has demonstrated good value against CV,, which looks to be falling off in mortality, both from somehow simply becoming less dangerous, or so I hear,, and from less dishonesty in labeling deaths.. HCQ has been in use for a very long time, but when it started being used to fight CV, all of a sudden, its a dangerous drug,, Pardon my skepticism,

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/06/20 at 10:38:39

HCQ as with any drug may be dangerous when other parameters are placed into the treatment scope.

Drug A is used to treat arthritis and has side effects, one is nausea, one is heart failure. 1% of people prescribed have heart failure.

Drug A is now used as a treatment for SARS and has side effects, one is nausea, one is heart failure. 10% of people prescribed have heart failure.

Drug A is dangerous to people that have SARS, but safe for people who do not. This is no different than drugs that are safe to take, unless pregnant, or have hypoglycemia, etc. which is why those warnings exist.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/20 at 10:56:05

Arrite,, Glad Im not in need of a solution,, I wouldnt wanna hafta find out if it worked for me. And Im not privy to the info that would help me decide and not close enough to the problem to wanna figure it out..
Thanks for your explanation

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/06/20 at 11:08:46

This is why we should be thankful for people that volunteer for clinical trials.

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/20 at 11:21:40

725250584552370 wrote:

This is why we should be thankful for people that volunteer for clinical trials.

No Kiddin,, Thats a level of bravery or insanity,, Not sure which..

Title: Re: Hydroxy increased mortality rates
Post by Eegore on 06/06/20 at 11:23:09

Depends on the pay.