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Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/20 at 17:42:52

Title: You decide,,
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/20 at 17:42:52

But,, It aligns closely with what I was thinking early on,, So,, Im down with it,,

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/05/selfinflicted_destruction_of_america_all_for_nought.html

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/24/20 at 21:17:51

I think it is ridiculous to say "Look what you said." then say "Look you said something different." months later, then say "Look you lied, because you said two different things." Changing your mind based off of data you present, and other people can see and replicate, is lying?

The math is present but challenged by people that won't grab a calculator and run the numbers themselves. Of course the mortality rate percentage is going to change. Why on earth would anyone thing a predicted number, that was actually expected to lower and said as such, (but conveniently left out of the article) would not change?

R0 for SARS-COV-2 will change, anyone working in the field will say that. They claim "But the worst part is that we’ve known for a while, with absolute certainty, that he never believed a word of it himself." and then cite the article that specifically states:

"However, given the efficiency of transmission as indicated in the current report, we should be prepared for Covid-19 to gain a foothold throughout the world, including in the United States. Community spread in the United States could require a shift from containment to mitigation strategies such as social distancing in order to reduce transmission. Such strategies could include isolating ill persons (including voluntary isolation at home), school closures, and telecommuting where possible."

Why on earth would anyone read N Engl J Med 2020; 382:1268-1269 and think Fauci wasn't going to make these recommendations?

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by srinath on 05/24/20 at 21:32:33

I don't like this 1 bit. I am pro shutdown. But this virus has very very low fatality rate among the otherwise healthy. It hurts me to say it, but shutdown is stupid unless you're in a high density population area like NYC, and in that case you need to get the fcuk out of the place and go to Montana or something.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/25/20 at 00:47:08

I agree that the current methods are not ideal.

I do not agree that given the initial analysis worldwide that if we had continued on the current course that we would be experiencing the same, or even similar fatality rate.

More important is anyone can look back and say "you did it wrong". Absolutely anyone can take current facts and tell people what they should have done. The problem here is that certain portions of Fauci's report are excluded for what I can only imagine are convenience as they conflict directly with the claim.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by WebsterMark on 05/25/20 at 05:57:14

The thing that’s behind the spirit of this article and many others is it WAS obvious very early on a clearly defined demographic group of victims who would require hospitalization was well established. Think of the difference had all the money spent would have been devoted to protecting those groups at risk. I personally know two people who killed themselves and I’m positive the isolating effects of a lockdown and/or the constant projections of doom for anyone at random, played a role. Death, was in their ill minds which they learned to live with for their entire life, an easy way out of a bleak future.

Everyone should be terrified of the power of the media to force politicians into actions with dreadful consequences and suffer no consequences.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by oldNslow on 05/25/20 at 07:10:22

Quote:

You decide,,

Quote:

Everyone should be terrified of the power of the media to force politicians into actions with dreadful consequences and suffer no consequences.

I decided a while ago. Do you guys know what a "Buffalo Jump" is ?

I'm not going off the cliff. Everyone else can do whatever they want.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by srinath on 05/25/20 at 07:31:11

083A3D2C2B3A2D123E2D345F0 wrote:

There are a few (or more than a few - I only heard of a few) hospitals where the number of suicide cases outnumber the China virus cases by a factor of 10. They've seen a years worth of suicides in a month. Bigger factor, the suicides are people in their teens and 20's while china virus cases are in their 70's and up. This is china's attempt to take out an entire generation and cripple us to complete their world domination.

On the bright side, drug busts are apparently getting bigger and better and easier.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by MnSpring on 05/25/20 at 10:32:40

0B2B29213C2B4E0 wrote:

"... Why on earth would anyone thing a predicted number, that was actually expected to lower and said as such, (but conveniently left out of the article) would not change?..."

"... Of course the mortality rate percentage is going to change. ..."

And of course you defend WHO, CDC, State Health org's, in every possible way.
As well as the, 'professionals', that have been proven to give misleading information, and people who are not even remotely versed in Vaccine protocol/information, and just rely on what 'other' people tell them.
Those peoples 'expertise' comes from the money they made, steeling other peoples hard work, (before their were patents on Software)

And defending the people that pushed FEAR, (when the population did not know), for the sole purpose of, herding the she-pol.
When those Org's KNEW of a high probability, C-19 was not nearly as bad, (as the vast Majority of people now know), as they 'said' it would be.

"...anyone can look back and say "you did it wrong". Absolutely anyone can take current facts and tell people what they should have done...."

That is NOT the case in this situation.
(If the dire, "The Sky is Falling", prediction was developed by false/unknown information, perhaps)
In this case, even early on, the 'Information' was purposely ALTERED, to make people believe, "The Sky is Falling".

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/25/20 at 10:49:38

"And of course you defend WHO, CDC, State Health org's, in every possible way."

Except for the instances where I say they are misleading, incorrect, or using poor protocol, but lets leave that part out just like we will leave out the parts about gun control where I worked, successfully, to recall politicians that implemented tighter restrictions so you can say I am pro-gun control. Just like there can only be one reason to alter the wording of the 2nd Amendment, it's impossible to word it in any capacity that would favor the US citizen, so I must be pro-gun control.

So since I ask people to actually read the sources they cite and inform us how they are arriving at their outcomes I must be pro-CDC, WHO, and Stay at Home right? Misquoting reports and leaving out parts of a study can't possibly be what I am bringing up.

"In this case, even early on, the 'Information' was purposely ALTERED, to make people believe, "The Sky is Falling"."

Can you reference some? So far all I see are excerpts from larger articles that exclude the actual math, and cut apart quotes from separate articles and quotes. Just like the Fauci paper that excluded the part where he said stay at home orders would be probable. Or Facebook checklists that are even more ridiculous and inaccurate.

I haven't seen a single CDC report predicting millions of deaths.

In any case this will be a case of confirmation bias and circular reasoning. Stay-at-home worked that's why we didn't see the huge death toll. Nope. The disease wasn't that bad, that's why we didn't see the huge death toll. Nope. Stay at home worked, that's why. Nope. It wasn't that bad, that's why.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/20 at 12:50:21

E, I am absolutely thrilled You are here..
You go places, see things and are privy to information that regular folks dont have just handed to them. YOu KNOW how to get stuff,, and whats in it,, well,, Youre right,, Im Not reading a tome of government speek to find a few sentences. The information you want to share would be read, IF you would make a Concise section available.
Youre aware, Im sure, of the way the media and the alleged experts made it look, right? Dont blame the public for not trusting anyone in the public eye. And for the stupid saps who CONTINUE to put faith in the models athe experts who say we need to be prepared to lose peopple, like the models predicted,,
You keep running and hiding behind
I havent seen a single Cdc report, blah, blah,,

Well,, Birx excoriated them for lying,, FINALLY,,
Admit it,, we were lied to,,

AAAND,,
I had no idea youd worked to make change that made the second amendment listened to,,
Who did you work to recall and did it work?

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/25/20 at 20:07:39

"You keep running and hiding behind
I havent seen a single Cdc report"

Hiding? You don't think there's an issue when somebody says "JoG said he is pro-gun control." and reference a forum post that you either didn't post in, or didn't say anything like what is claimed? Then when you challenge the accuracy they say "Well Eegore mislead me, blame Eegore, and stop running and hiding behind the fact that the post I claimed doesn't even exist."

It's Eegore's fault I thought JoG was pro-gun control, and JoG is hiding behind the fact that no forum post exists.

As for recalls:

In 2013 CO State Senate President John Morse and State Senator Angela Giron were successfully removed from office by utilizing the CO State Constitution. We had attempted to remove 4 officials but initial ballots were only enough to remove 2.

The implementation of various gun-control measures conflicted with the desires of the constituent majority. Every step of the way was of course a battle but we managed to get Morse to concede with an eventual 1.7% (estimated) loss and Giron's polling numbers (facilitated by local media) indicated she would win by over 6%, while real math by real analysts indicated she would lose by 10% or more. She lost by just over 11%. This was the only successful recall in CO, and it didn't require one person marching in the streets with guns, one park protest with cardboard signs, or anything like that. We followed law, procedure and covered our @sses for the inevitable appeals process. For instance State law gave 10 days for recounting/confirmation but the State Constitution allows 15. We proved that the State Constitution will trump State law but only by very specific means. Their argument was "color" of law and ours was "letter" as in what the words say.

They had a budget of over 3-million and we separated funds among three groups totaling just over 500k. Brains over brawn.

19 States allow this and I am amazed more people won't fight for recall measures in their State.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state-officials.aspx

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/20 at 06:38:04

I dont know how you managed to get into a position to have time to spend in actual action in the political arena.. But Im glad you did.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/26/20 at 06:40:50

"I dont know how you managed to get into a position to have time to spend in actual action in the political arena.. But Im glad you did."

Modern technology for the most part. I don't drive all over the state to meetings, we had them on conference calls. Most of the work was done weekday evenings and weekends that didn't involve direct legal work, which was done by lawyers who of course have all day.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by MnSpring on 05/26/20 at 07:30:45

0626242C3126430 wrote:

"... I am amazed more people won't fight for recall measures in their State ..."

That process is happening now in Minn.
As to the Governor's ticket.
It was threatened in Wisc, but then,
The Wisconsin Supreme Court overturned the state's stay-at-home order, ruling it "unlawful" and “unenforceable”. …
The court ruled that Democratic Gov. Tony Evers' administration overstepped its authority...

I am amazed, more people won't fight for Freedom in the State they live in.
Like a Governor who says to the like;
All the State E.C.V.s will go to the candidate that three national major Metropolitan areas voted for.
Regardless of how the Majority of the Citizens Vote in CO.

And The Gov, Signing a law,
that makes Colorado a Official Sanctuary State

“...Under the new law, state and local law enforcement will be prohibited from honoring immigration detainers, or requests by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to hold a criminal alien already in custody for up to 48 hours, unless they’re accompanied by a judicial warrant (which is not something federal law provides for, meaning in practice the new state law forbids ever honoring them). It could also make it impossible for law enforcement officials to cooperate with ICE under federal immigration enforcement cooperation initiatives like the 287(g) program or the new Warrant Service Officer (WSO) program.
Additionally, probation officers will be restricted from sharing information with ICE about illegal aliens they supervise, including information about release dates, court dates or their place of residence. Law enforcement officials will even be required to provide an “advisement of rights” to suspected illegal aliens before they’re released or prior to any interviews with ICE …”

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/20 at 10:49:37

If a state disavows federal law enforcement, why not ust finish it and secede?

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/26/20 at 12:23:03

"If a state disavows federal law enforcement, why not ust finish it and secede?"

I imagine the time it would take to negotiate international airspace alone would be a nightmare and not worth it. Anyone choosing to stay in CO would need a new passport, all military, Federal prison staff/inmates would have to leave etc. Restructure international trade agreements, interstate travel, create a new medical care system, all social security gone.

I'd rather use the system that's worked for years than create a new country.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by srinath on 05/26/20 at 12:23:19

706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:

If a state disavows federal law enforcement, why not ust finish it and secede?

That's cos they want to secede without taking up their share of the debt and want to use the rest of the infrastructure etc etc.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by MnSpring on 05/26/20 at 16:15:50

4C6C6E667B6C090 wrote:

I imagine the time it would take to negotiate international airspace alone would be a nightmare and not worth it. Anyone choosing to stay in CO would need a new passport, all military, Federal prison staff/inmates would have to leave etc. Restructure international trade agreements, interstate travel, create a new medical care system, all social security gone. I'd rather use the system that's worked for years than create a new country.

negotiate international airspace
Gee, no international flights fly across CO now ?
No flights from France fly over Germany ?
(ETC/ETC/ETC/...)
Rather easy to do.
(Unless you get paid by the hour to talk)

Anyone choosing to stay in CO would need a new passport,
Anyone choosing to be a Citizen of the new Country would need a new passport. And very easily done.
And this new Country could allow Citizens of the USA to live inside, just like a whole Bunch of other Countries do !

all military, would have to leave etc.
Why ? I guess the USA has NO Military instantiations in ANY OTHER COUNTRY !

Federal prison staff/inmates, would have to leave
Why ? The new Country could not contract to take over that facility.
Or the USA could not move those people out ?

Restructure international trade agreements,
Could be real simple, Goods made in the USA allowed,
goods made in China 200% Teriff.
Yes Virginia, Lots and Lots of other places, and if Mexico can do it, people in the new Country would be able to.

interstate travel,
The same as most of Europe, Ya don't know you are in a different Country, unless the language on the signs changes.

create a new medical care system,
And a newly created one, ANY, newly created one. Would be so much better.
(Well except for those who's paycheck depends on Grants, Foundations, Subsidizes, from another Government)

all social security gone.
Really ? If Bot moves to the UK, ya mean he cannot collect SS ?
(Don't worry bot, you can !)

So this new Country, in the middle of the Nation USA, IS,
totally, absolutely, and clearly possible.

Would it take some work, Sure,
but that is NOT a reason to spread FEAR.

Title: Re: You decide,,
Post by Eegore on 05/26/20 at 17:23:30

"Gee, no international flights fly across CO now ?"

Not what I said, but going to the extreme example is a good way to attempt to discredit my example. I very specifically said "negotiating" is not "worth it" as in the possibility exists to have international flights, and that process would be negotiated. Just not worth it.

Obviously your definition of easy and mine are different, and my assessment of what's "worth it" is different.

"Would it take some work, Sure,
but that is NOT a reason to spread FEAR."

I'm pretty sure any intentional spreading of FEAR has nothing to do with attempts to keep CO from becoming a sovereign country.