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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> SOS! I have a crack... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1589000451 Message started by so_savage on 05/08/20 at 22:00:49 |
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Title: SOS! I have a crack... Post by so_savage on 05/08/20 at 22:00:49 Hello motorcycle comrades! I have developed quite a problem with my 2003 Savage and figured this would be my best bet to obtain the most honest and accurate answers. To make a long story, short, I am trying to put it back together without really knowing what was done while it was out of my possession... I can fill in the details later, if we can get past this first problem. I was installing the side stand when I noticed a crack on top of the engine block. It starts between the top 2 bolts on the left hand side crank case cover, and runs to the top left corner of where the solenoid sits (hopefully you can see the photo). My main concern is whether or not it is worth continuing the build... Should I take the cover back off and see what happened underneath? Can it be filled with gasket maker? Is it even fixable? What is my next step / where do I go from here? I appreciate any and all feedback. Thank you in advance! |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by Hiko on 05/09/20 at 01:11:43 My condolences with that I think the first thing would be to get that cover off and see what you find inside Finding the cause of this should be a priority Some thing adrift inside? Loose engine mounts perhaps? There are firms around who can repair cracks such as this quite often in place I guess someone on this forum will have more ideas and experience Hope fully it is not as bad as you imagine |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by Dave on 05/09/20 at 03:04:57 Yes, I agree with Hiko and you need to take the cover off and see what is underneath. It could be the washers for the starter idler/torque limiting gear were put in the wrong place. If that is the only thing broken, you could use JB Weld and epoxy the crack on the inside of the engine.....and try to get some inside the crack. With a little paint it may not be real noticeable. JB Weld will hold up better than gasket maker - it works very well on engine blocks. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/09/20 at 04:00:39 That’s just the visible part of the crack. It appears to continue along the flange and across the area of the starter motor. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by batman on 05/09/20 at 07:25:44 Being a 95 this may be damage caused by the motor 's kickback , though not what we're use to seeing ,normally damage to the gears or side case. but a agree you'll need to disassemble the side case, starter gears and motor to be able to see the complete extent of the damage. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by srinath on 05/09/20 at 08:37:34 Oh yea but its the easier side to repair IMHO. Take it to a tig welder, you need to grind a 1/4 wide" trench on both sides of that crack with a metal bit not an abrasive bit. And have the welder weld it up. That section of the motor is lower stress. You may get away with just welding it up, BTW those tig jobs are very strong, the high stress area like the starter pivot also held up well on the ones I did before. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by so_savage on 05/09/20 at 09:34:23 Now I know where to start. Thank you kindly. I will update as I proceed. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/20 at 10:35:21 Do I see a slight gap between the cover and engine at the rearmost edge? |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by Keifer on 05/09/20 at 11:04:01 2122372E222D777B430 wrote:
How often does that happen? Is it as big an issue as the cam chain tensioner check? |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by verslagen1 on 05/09/20 at 11:33:53 58767A757661252623130 wrote:
How often does that happen? Is it as big an issue as the cam chain tensioner check?[/quote] You said this was a 2003, so no this does not happen. I think it would be easier to get a bottom end and swap it with yours. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by batman on 05/09/20 at 13:46:57 OOPS sorry I missed that it was a 2003 |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by DragBikeMike on 05/09/20 at 15:12:16 Good observation JOG. There is a gap. Can you see, are the two bolts that mount the starter on the right side still in place? If it was operated with those bolts missing or loose, it may have resulted in excessive load on your left-side case. That would be the two bolts shown in this picture. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/20 at 18:02:24 Might not have gotten a shaft in the recess in the cover, something held it out,, and the bolts being tightened bowed it till it cracked. Thats why All Bolts go up finger tight before any get tightened. And gaps are checked, to see its coming up evenly and flat. Once All bolts are up finger tight, say, nut driver, yes, you can borrow Stanleys nut driver handle,, and dont make a fist grip, get every bolt in, spin them up.. Before ya even spin them up, press the part into position and make sure it is going. Then a quick snug on opposite sides and its gonna stay there. If youre using bigger than 1/4" drive stuff, youre beggin for trouble. A 1/4" drive ratchet with a thumb on the head and opened fingers, using the closing of the fingers to bring the bolts tight, is enough. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by batman on 05/10/20 at 06:35:54 I think JOG is on to something, there does seem to be a gap between the starter and the case that shouldn't be there, the starter and O-ring should have fit inside flush to the case an the parts sticker shows that the starter has been replaced. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the two bolt that hold the starter motor are what caused the crack in the case. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by Hiko on 05/10/20 at 14:31:40 Long distance forensic analysis Awesome! :) |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/20 at 15:06:56 WE put enuff detectives on it to Crack the case.. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by Hiko on 05/10/20 at 16:14:24 ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by ohiomoto on 05/11/20 at 20:10:02 243B3D3A2720112111293B377C4E0 wrote:
------------------------ Classic JOG right there! ;) |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by so_savage on 05/19/20 at 09:22:37 Sorry for the wait. I had to dig out a broken bolt on the cylinder head. Now, back to the crack.... I took the starter out and am able to get a better look. How do you feel about JB Weld now? |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by DragBikeMike on 05/19/20 at 12:19:50 SS, we really need to see more pictures. I suspect that if you look at the case a bit closer you will find the crack more extensive than you think. Earlier comments about the starter idler gear are important. That gear is NOT supposed to have washer on each side. The washers go on the special kick-back limiter. If the washers are installed on the idler gear, it causes the cover to pinch the gear. When the washers are installed on the idler gear it typically causes the starter system to bind. I suspect it could also result in the case cracking (like yours). Take pictures of this area. It might be cracked also. Based on your prior photos, it seems likely to me that this area will be cracked too. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by DragBikeMike on 05/19/20 at 12:30:35 You need to understand why the crack is there. Were there washers on the starter idler gear? The idler gear and shaft are installed on this boss. There should NOT have been any washers on either side of the gear. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by DragBikeMike on 05/19/20 at 12:36:17 You also need to be concerned about case bolts. If the wrong bolt is installed, it can go all the way through the case and contact the starter. Then as you continue to tighten the bolt, something most likely will break (like the case). See how a bolt that is too long may protrude and hit the starter. This is the left hand side. Also note how the idler shaft bosses are a fixed distance from each other. Put washers in there along with the gear and you have a metal sandwich. Something has to give. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by DragBikeMike on 05/19/20 at 12:37:41 Same thing can happen on the right hand cover. Install a bolt that is too long and it will push on the starter motor. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by DragBikeMike on 05/19/20 at 12:42:31 The starter drive is high-stress. I don't think it is a good candidate for a JB-Weld repair. The epoxy would probably be OK for simply plugging up a leak, but it doesn't have adequate strength to keep things rigid and aligned in the starter drive. Post some more pictures. Tell us what you found on the starter idler gear/shaft. Check out the case bolts that attach the alternator cover and clutch cover. Tell us if there's a chance that a long bolt was installed in the locations I pointed out. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/20 at 08:49:01 Avoid the puzzle Cardboard with a sketch, Slots at each bolt location Put them in as they come out. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by so_savage on 05/20/20 at 18:08:12 Hello again. Thank you for the feedback! It appears that all bolts on the case covers are original, so I don't think one would be too long... unless it was installed in the wrong position. This could be possible since I got it back in pieces and not sure what was done to it while out of my possession (long story). I will double check when putting the cover back on. I didn't come across any extra washers either. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by so_savage on 05/20/20 at 18:08:47 I did notice that on the starter motor itself, one of the bolts are protruding while the other is slightly below the surface. |
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Title: Re: SOS! I have a crack... Post by so_savage on 05/22/20 at 10:01:38 Looking at the starter motor... there are indents where bolts could have possibly been too long. Also, there seems to be an o-ring missing on the left side. Maybe this is why the bolts were not sitting correctly? |
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