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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> The Ratchet Effect /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1587126515 Message started by WebsterMark on 04/17/20 at 05:28:35 |
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Title: The Ratchet Effect Post by WebsterMark on 04/17/20 at 05:28:35 From an article I read this morning that’s spot on. “The first is that government authority is programmed to grow, never shrink. “ “....the ratchet effect, which holds that the state gains powers during a crisis, then surrenders only some of them afterwards, yielding a net growth in government.” |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/17/20 at 05:38:19 https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-dont-need-to-live-in-a-post-coronavirus-world/ Unless you get someone like Trump in office who is willing to make cuts. I know there's a ton of backlash when X-Agency has a funding cut, like the EPA, or the CDC, but on the other side we can't continually add, add, add and maintain an efficient program. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by oldNslow on 04/17/20 at 06:54:12 7454565E4354310 wrote:
Of course, you are only correct if the actual intent is to maintain an "efficient program," It isn't. “Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.” [ch8213] George Orwell, 1984 . capiche ? |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by srinath on 04/17/20 at 07:09:01 The annoying thing is Bush expanded govt a lot even while paying lip service to small govt under the umbrella of 9/11. Obama expanded it more. Trump started cutting it, some of it seemed indiscriminate - because well, it was, and it also was probabilistic and hence can always be blamed for not considering a .001% of this or that - never mind some expert always says its freaking 100%. Yea 3 yrs of cutting around the edges of the previous 24 yrs of expansion can always be claimed to be cut too deep etc etc crap. When both sides are against the tax payer it seems like an indiscriminate butcher may be the only one for LOL. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/17/20 at 07:10:26 The more I see complaints about over-regulation the less I think Orwell was on to something. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/17/20 at 09:01:46 In my experience, George Orwell words, especially in the book 1984. Are spot on. And the more that people quote him, the more they learn, what is happening. It is my experience that the people that complain that George Orwell’s words are not relevant in today's society. Are the architects of, or the beneficiaries of, that warning. Just a few in point. (Their are so many more) Used to have FSTC in the local school, wanted to keep that option open. School board said NO because someone else said no. It had to be explained to them they DID have the authority to say yes to Firearms in Schools for a FST Class. A City, telling a developer they HAD to have a Codicil or a Homeowners agreement in place, when in that City/State, their is NO SUCH requirement. (No Virginia a ‘Codicil' is NOT just a adjustment to a will) A Police man, saying he was going to confiscate a Firearm, sitting in the front seat of a car, (Unloaded, In a Case, case fully closed). Which was perfectly, and completely Legal. AND the State law, said, "Notwithstanding Local Regulations” (Again for Virginia, Notwithstanding, means in spite of). His excuse was, ‘well we do things differently here’. Employees at a Court House, saying ‘Well the County Planning Commission has denied the request for the CUP, (Conditional Use Permit), so you have no more resources for that project". When the TRUTH is, according to the law in that place, it is the ELECTED Commissioners of that County that make the final decision, NOT the appointed, administrators. And as handy as a ratchet wrench is. It CAN, be undone. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/17/20 at 18:05:56 These words, "...if Janet can call in a SWAT team on her coughing neighbor who just so happens to have ditched her at the prom back in 1973...." From this site: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-dont-need-to-live-in-a-post-coronavirus-world/ As troubling as those words are, concerning the new strain of virus. They are exactaly what the UL DFI FDS Gun Grabbing Socialists want any, 'red law', to become. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by WebsterMark on 04/19/20 at 04:39:04 My name for the ratchet the fact is the stop sign phenomenon. How often have you seen stop signs come down after they’ve gone up? Sure it happens but it’s very rare. Even if the traffic patterns change, doesn’t matter the stop sign remains. Very annoying and is all motorcyclist know, intersections are dangerous. Interestingly enough, I was in Germany and noticed that driving through Frankfurt in the neighborhoods many of the four-way streets did not have stop signs. It was customary for all the drivers to slow and see if there was traffic coming as opposed to always stopping at a four-way even if there’s absolutely no traffic around. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/20 at 06:03:51 It was customary for all the drivers to slow and see if there was traffic coming as opposed to always stopping at a four-way even if there’s absolutely no traffic around. What? You mean allowing the unwashed to think and decide is safe? |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by WebsterMark on 04/20/20 at 06:03:53 Exactly. Much of this is about determining your level of risk. We all ride motorcycles which means we’ve all decided to accept a level of risk. Some ride only with ATGATT, some don’t. Again, we all determine the level of risks we’re comfortable with. I’ve tried to find detailed demographics on the severely ill and those who have died from COVID-19 in the St. Louis area to no avail. I want to know how many of those had one of the six or seven underlying health conditions. I want to know how many were living in group retirement home settings/communities. I want to know the ages, I want to know if they were traveling to work everyday or mostly staying at home. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/20/20 at 10:21:22 526067767160774864776E050 wrote:
Always wondered what happens to those people that need immediate bypass Heart surgery, who die because the beds are needed ? Or how many cancers are not cut out, then the cancer spreads and affects all other organs. To save the beds ? How many hip surgeries are canceled, that the people that badly need them, fall and smash their head on something. Because beds have to be reserved ? One would think that would be the CDC’s, and other medical recording entities, job to sort that out. Perhaps they are to busy telling all the doctors how to record every possible death as C-19’s fault. (and of coarse telling the rest of us, they May, at Some time, in the Future, change those numbers) Any graph of COVID-19, positive tests, which if you had a Flu shot sometime, depending on what kind of test, are not a accurate number. Nether is deaths by C-19. Unless you are a next of kin, and have a hard copy of the death certificate, you will never know if the death is due to, lung disease, stroke, Alzheimer's, diabetes, flu, pneumonia, kidney, heart, cancer, etc. Or C-19. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/20/20 at 10:30:46 "I’ve tried to find detailed demographics on the severely ill and those who have died from COVID-19 in the St. Louis area to no avail. I want to know how many of those had one of the six or seven underlying health conditions. I want to know how many were living in group retirement home settings/communities. I want to know the ages, I want to know if they were traveling to work everyday or mostly staying at home. " I don't know about where you live but in CO this information isn't exactly easy to verify. I have the privilege of seeing some information not released to the public, like the cellphone metadata, and it's useful but not a "go-to" for verification. For instance we couldn't prove the owner of the phone was the one with it. As for some of the other information it just takes time to compile. I'd like detailed demographics too, but there's not a lot of people allocated to this detail, at this time. Reminds me of getting a team into NY for 9/11. People wanted "identification" but the first steps were to just find a safe (contamination free) way to house the bodies. I was already sent overseas when the team arrived in NY so I didn't experience it first hand, but the briefings when I got back showed areas that scrambled for DNA/Dental/Fingerprint ID's actually had lower accuracy. I didn't expect that, but I see how it happened. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/20/20 at 10:38:50 "Always wondered what happens to those people that need immediate bypass Heart surgery, who die because the beds are needed ?" All of them receive surgery. Or how many cancers are not cut out, then the cancer spreads and affects all other organs. To save the beds ? Cancer care is not to be cancelled, in any form, including non-invasive consultations. Cancer is considered life-threatening at all stages. "How many hip surgeries are canceled, that the people that badly need them, fall and smash their head on something. Because beds have to be reserved ?" They should receive surgery. Orthopedic surgeries are rarely cancelled, none where I am have been cancelled, unless insurance has pulled out and the patient elects to cancel. All of those are continued care and would not be canceled. None of those patients should be denied surgery by law. Hip surgery might not be covered, but if it is a mobility or safety issue, it's approved unless insurance denies it. I would be interested in any verifiable information indicating that people needing emergency surgeries, and cancer care are denied. Anyone you know that this has happened to I have resources for as the denial is illegal and they should be allowed representation. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/20/20 at 10:49:23 1030323A2730550 wrote:
Please Prove that is happening. Because, 'Whistle-blower', Doctors say otherwise. (Wait, forgot, only some, 'Whistle-blower's', are to be believed. While others are Not !) |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/20/20 at 10:55:00 "Please Prove that is happening. Because, 'Whistle-blower', Doctors say otherwise." Can you provide reference for this? I have not seen any information that heart surgeries are being cancelled for bed space. At most I could see a lack of staff, or surgical equipment, but not bed space being an issue. Even at that all attempts should, legally, be made to transfer the patient to appropriate care. If they are being denied emergency surgery for any patient that "might" come in, that is illegal. I can't prove every human in the US is getting emergency bypass surgery when needed, so I should have phrased it "They should by law be receiving emergency bypass surgery." |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/24/20 at 16:18:49 1434363E2334510 wrote:
The below is just the tip of the iceberg. And a simple search gained multiple page's full of examples. “… New York state just issued a drastic new guideline urging emergency services workers not to bother trying to revive anyone without a pulse when they get to a scene, amid an overload of coronavirus patients …” “… The state Health Department insists that its new guideline has been in use “in many areas of the US as well as other locations throughout the world” …" https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/?utm_source=NYPFacebook&sr_share=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&fbclid=IwAR0Cb1fb31FavyU9nT9KnGKfiKsDelejXaQTLdz8hKgIqGRT0g7sj45fkFg “ ...San Francisco Bay Area surgeon Mary Cardoza is juggling multiple breast cancer patients. But she can’t operate on any of them. Breast cancer surgery, it turns out, is considered an elective procedure — now put on hold as hospitals focus on COVID-19 cases….” “ … Cancer Surgeries and Organ Transplants Are Being Put Off for Coronavirus. …” https://www.propublica.org/article/cancer-surgeries-and-open-transplants-are-being-put-off-for-coronavirus-can-they-wait “… Ontario hospitals warn COVID-19 trumps cancer care in event of outbreak …” “… At the Princess Margaret Cancer Centre, Canada’s largest, oncologists are already combing through their files, searching for appointments that can be postponed…." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-hospitals-warn-covid-19-trumps-cancer-care-in-event-of/ "... Alison Krupnick had surgery scheduled to remove early stage cervical cancer, but because of the ongoing coronavirus outbreak, her surgery was being postponed indefinitely to keep hospital beds open. ..." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/us/coronavirus-covid-surgeries-canceled.html |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/24/20 at 17:08:36 Other than some of the cancer patients, which is not happening where I am thankfully, are not what you described when I responded. "Always wondered what happens to those people that need immediate bypass Heart surgery, who die because the beds are needed ?" To me, you describe a surgery that is required now, as in immediately and not later. I don't see examples of people with immediate requirements for surgery being denied and left to die in a waiting room because they might have SARS-COV-2 patients show up. I can't say this has not happened, but I see no evidence of it happening. "In hospitals with heavy COVID-19 caseloads — those with no spare ventilators or ICU capacity — it urges that all surgical procedures be avoided unless the patient is likely to die within the next few hours or days." Requires no availability, not cancellation based off of patients that might arrive at a later time. Your links repeat what I already said when I responded the first time: "At most I could see a lack of staff, or surgical equipment" This is happening, but denials of care based off of potential patients I do not see evidence of. Canada's health care and legal system is not similar enough to ours for me to comment on. The cancer care issue does need addressed. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/27/20 at 09:11:43 4B6B69617C6B0E0 wrote:
"... Newsom also announced plans Wednesday to allow hospitals and health systems to resume delayed medical care such as heart valve replacements, angioplasty and tumor removals, which were deferred as the health care system prepared for a surge of COVID-19 patients..." https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494242-newsom-wants-to-train-10000-contact-tracers-in-california |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/27/20 at 09:44:19 "To me, you describe a surgery that is required now, as in immediately and not later." You present another example of surgeries that did not require immediate intervention. You do know "elective" surgery means any surgery that is scheduled right? You present a concern about people who will die without immediate care, then reference people who are alive. Alive. "immediate bypass Heart surgery" = Your words. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/27/20 at 12:43:58 5474767E6374110 wrote:
Again: "elective" surgery means any surgery that is scheduled So little Johnny’s gramps, has a Heart Attack late one afternoon, he is taken to the ER, he is stabilized, and surgery is, ‘Scheduled’ for first thing the next morning. Little Johnny’s mother has a Lump on her breast, Test came back, and she is, ‘Scheduled’, for surgery the next day. Could do a whole bunch more. Point is in this case, that word, ‘Scheduled’, is sure a convent word ! |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/27/20 at 17:36:45 "So little Johnny’s gramps, has a Heart Attack late one afternoon, he is taken to the ER, he is stabilized, and surgery is, ‘Scheduled’ for first thing the next morning." You provided no examples in your links of anything like this happening. By your logic EMS calling Central Supply indicating a pacemaker is failing and to prepare replacement is "scheduled" and therefore elective. That is clearly imminent and life-saving. Nothing like that is in the material you presented. An ED doctor calls a cardiac surgeon and requests they meet a patient in 15 minutes inside the OR is "scheduled". Two CPR certified people come up on a car wreck, they get out and one says to the other, "meet me by the driver side door" that is "scheduled". Again nothing like that is in the material you presented. "Little Johnny’s mother has a Lump on her breast, Test came back, and she is, ‘Scheduled’, for surgery the next day." Yeah. I said the cancer situation is being poorly managed in some locations. Are some policies implemented poorly? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean we need to exaggerate things to the point of saying someone in need of "immediate bypass Heart surgery" - your words, is being denied and left to die in a waiting room because SARS-COV-2 patients might show up. |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by MnSpring on 04/27/20 at 18:06:04 6F4F4D45584F2A0 wrote:
Just so I have this correct; ALL Surgery is Scheduled. ALL Scheduled Surgery is Elective. ALL Elective Surgery, can be dropped, at any time, for any reason. OK Got it. I'll just make sure all the hospital Administrators, and the Governors of many States also have it. Oh Wait, they already do ! "... her surgery was being postponed indefinitely to keep hospital beds open. ..." |
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Title: Re: The Ratchet Effect Post by Eegore on 04/27/20 at 18:17:58 "ALL Surgery is Scheduled. ALL Scheduled Surgery is Elective. ALL Elective Surgery, can be dropped, at any time, for any reason." Wrong. What I am saying is anything that isn't a spontaneous reflex can be called "scheduled" and none of that applies to what you originally posted. This is how you exaggerate so you can complain. Some might call it "spin". You provide links with zero examples of the situation you presented, and that is someone needing "Immediate" surgery because SARS-COV-2 patients might show up. Again, policies aren't being applied universally in the best way, but to claim what you are above is very obviously an over-statement to somehow prove your point. |
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