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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Soliciting Paid Assistance /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1586013491 Message started by Bokobob on 04/04/20 at 08:18:11 |
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Title: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/04/20 at 08:18:11 Me? In eighties and brain dead with wrenching. My very nice 2009 S40 Thumper runs well, but it starts hard when engine is cold, and there is a nearly imperceptible (choose a word: stuttering, slight hesitation that comes and goes, "stumbling" a tiny bit) when riding above 40 mph or so. It seems to me like it is getting the gas very slightly unevenly. It may be doing it in all gears at all speeds, but I do not pay that much attention when accelerating from a stop light up to 4th and 5th gears because my attention is on getting up to highway speed. The phenomenon mentioned is constant...It kind of flutters, but again, almost imperceptibly... Starting hard seems to be that I have to fidget with the choke until the engine "catches" well. Once started and running generally ok, I keep the choke to medium and keep the throttle partly open until I have gone a mile or so when starting out with a cold start. I note there are quite a few members of the Savage forum in North Carolina, and of these a good number are in the vicinity of Charlotte, NC...I live 20 miles west of Charlotte in Gastonia NC.. I wonder if anyone with expertise and within a reasonable would be willing to assist me in replacing the carburetor? (either that or rehabbing the one installed.). I will pay generously for competent help. Alternatively, if you know of a good and trustworthy mechanic in the greater Charlotte area (radius of 50 miles or so) that you recommend, please do so. I am thinking of replacing carb with the top-rated one in the recent posting about "carburetor shootout" in which the author tried out four different carbs on his thumper. Thank you. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by SoC on 04/04/20 at 08:39:43 Bokobob, To answer your second question of day, before messing with the carb, replace the original petcock in gas tank with one for a Yamaha Raptor. Buy an original OEM from a Yamaha dealer, not a cheap knock-off from online. Many of the issues you describe can be attributed to the vacuum problems that can occur with the original petcocks when they get older. The install of the raptor unit is a straight up fit, just unbolt the original and put in the new one. You remove the vacuum hose for the original and plug the inlet for it on carb with a screw protector from the hardware store. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by verslagen1 on 04/04/20 at 08:44:17 try a new sparkplug. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by LANCER on 04/04/20 at 09:58:56 293A2D2C333E383A316E5F0 wrote:
I have found this helpful from time to time. [ch128527] |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/04/20 at 10:02:15 Thank you all. I will order the OEM petcock and put in a new spark plug. I am already using seafoam in the gas tank regularly... Stay tuned.. [edit] Edit: I will order the Yamaha Raptor petcock as suggested...There is a part number somewhere in forum..I'll hunt it down so I get the right one.. :) |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/20 at 10:06:38 Starting with the cheapest, easiest problem to solve is a great plan. The petcock is a common issue, thirty bux,, ish. Not even physically challenging for old crippled up guys like me. Spilling some Sea Foam in the tank is easy and MIGHT change the way things are.. Low odds, but If it helps,, its so cheap and easy, I think its worth tryine first. Just saw your last post,, scratch my Sea Foam suggestion. OEM petcock Is the weak link. Yamaha Raptor is what most of us use. Genuine Yamaha part,, |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/04/20 at 10:12:38 674A4E4A474A47250 wrote:
To be clear, you DONT want to order an OEM peacock, you want to order an OEM Yamaha Raptor Petcock. Sparkplug, sure why not. Seafoam, sure why not. But the problem you are describing is lean surge and that can be fixed only by cleaning the inside of the carb and most likely raising the needle. Can someone help this 80 year young man out? |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/20 at 10:27:27 If I was one of the sites carb Guru types I just might be willing to do the carb on my bench after UPS dropped it off to me..But before we go that way,, lets try the petcock.. Heck, Put your petcock on Prime and see if it runs better.. That bypasses the vacuum diaphragm. Also, petcock failures Sometimes allow fuel to get in the oil. If youre seeing more oil when you check it,, you may not be hallucinating. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by jcstokes on 04/04/20 at 11:26:47 Do you crack the throttle open when you start? |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by zipidachimp on 04/04/20 at 11:46:27 Boko: there is order in the universe and it is this for S40 owners: 1..Yamaha Raptor petcock replacement 2..Cap the vacuum port on the carb 3..White spacer mod on carb 4..Re-jet the carb 52.5/150 and test 5..Shell Rotella 15w/40 oil 6..Fresh rubber, not from 2009 7..Ride the darn thing ! From a 76 yr old with a few grey cells and an inquiring mind/sense of adventure Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by IslandRoad on 04/04/20 at 13:24:22 Tis is the Yamaha part number for the petcock: 5LP-24500-01-00 |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/04/20 at 13:27:34 Quote: Do you crack the throttle when you start? Not sure what you mean. When I first start the bike or when I start from a stoplight? If when I first start the bike up cold, I use the throttle a bit to "help" coax the engine to run smoother; if from a stoplight, I ride very easy going. I am gonna go for a ride in a moment...I will try the petcock on "prime" after it warms up. I will also rev the engine up after the ride when in neutral and stopped to see if I can tell any difference... Also thank you for the part number...…:-) |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by bobert_FSO on 04/04/20 at 13:52:42 My suggestions would be issues with either the petcock or the carb white spacer mod. Modifying the needle spacer really made a difference for me. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by jcstokes on 04/04/20 at 13:53:04 According to the handbook cold starts should be done with full choke and completely closed throttle. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by srinath on 04/04/20 at 14:30:22 You have clean carbs ? Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/04/20 at 15:39:46 18223D303F35033E3035510 wrote:
I just ordered the Yamaha oem part 5LP-24500-01-00 from Ebay. It was $32 plus a bit of shipping and tax... I have not cleaned the carb...I am not handy enough to do that...I am elderly. Took 35 mile ride just now. Seems to run a bit smoother when engine is warm and with choke pulled out slightly. Maybe 3/8th of an inch out. (Very little difference if any from no choke. More or less a hunch.) I tried it on prime setting on petcock...I could not tell if it was more or less smooth. Thing is, with earplugs and helmet wind noise and riding on road not the smoothest, I could not tell...I'll do this tests again on a newly paved road soon. I will look into the "white" carburetor whatever...Don't know what it is. I use motorcycle specific oil. Next change I'll try the Shell oil suggested. Will change sparkplug after installing the Raptor petcock. On my latest ride, I stopped after 20 miles and put the bike in neutral an revved engine to roughly 35% or so of throttle an did not notice any difference in the way the engine sounded (slight hesitation as said in opening post.) Thank you all for your good suggestions... :) |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by srinath on 04/04/20 at 16:37:38 No all those other carbs are all just going to make more work for you and not work as well as the stock. BTW I am not too far - north side of Charlotte just off 485 and know my way round these bikes well with the 7th one as my sons bike that I did a carb clean on just 3 weeks ago. But quarantine and working at home makes me reluctant to venture the 100+ miles to fix it in 10 mins. Its pretty easy to slightly harder to fix this. You can fix this sight unseen. You likely have a dirty pilot jet, its all that clogs, its the smallest in the lot and it is the one that's active a lot. And idle and low throttle use only pilot. Its partially clogged, like it was in my son's bike. It wont take throttle and cold starting was a pain, but it would idle forever. However if you managed to get it upper throttle it would run decently. Cos its running off the mains. The only part I cleaned was the pilot jet, without even a real cleaning tool, and it worked like a charm. The sequence is this. Take out phillips head screws holding the bowl in, and have allen head bolts to replace them. Find pilot jet, take a wire tie that has vinyl on it, and pull the vinyl off with your finger nail. Shove it in the pilot jet holes a few times to get it all the way clean. Re fit the float bowl with allen bolts. Start the bike. Your problems will have disappeared by now. Conversely - you can ride it few hours and may disappear. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/20 at 18:17:38 Take out phillips head screws holding the bowl in. Not to be a pedantic jerk, but those are JIS screws, not phillips. Phillips tips will strip them. Or, you can grind the tip a bit flat until it fits into the X completely. Ditch the petcock If your oil looks like its growing, change it.. Heck,, Oil is cheap enough.. If I condemned the petcock, Id just dump the oil,, and start over. Rotella isnt that expensive, Aslong as the exhaust is stock. Im paying attention to your age and physical abilities and doing my best to ADVISE YOU, KEEPING THAT IN MIND. Sorry,, hit the blasted caplock button,, I say, lets be patient, go slow and do the least physically challenging things first. Check the oil. If you think it the least bit higher than it hshould be Park it until the petcock is replaced Then change the oil. Then see how it runs. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by IslandRoad on 04/05/20 at 02:07:42 The symptoms sound like the classic 'lean surge' that the Savage is known for. I think Bokobob's original intuition was correct. The solution is to solicit some help to adjust the carb. But ... swap the Petcock first. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/05/20 at 04:41:19 Bokobob If you are able to remove and reinstall the carb, you can send it to me to be cleaned and evaluated. I refuse to take any money for doing this. I can adjust the needle with the washer mod as all LS650’s benefit from this mod. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by srinath on 04/05/20 at 07:05:14 594640475A5D6C5C6C54464A01330 wrote:
Oh not being pedantic or jerk - but yes they are JIS. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/07/20 at 05:14:33 Thank you for the additional replies..You guys know your stuff....I am daunted at removing the carb to send it off for repair. However, I will check out video tutorials and make notes of key steps and remove the carb. The bike is now starting right up with choke pulled all the way out and throttle not open..It only will run for a few seconds that way and then I push the choke half way in and leave it there for maybe the first two miles of riding. Also, I crack the throttle by intuition to help keep it running...I also have now changed to Shell T4 oil. Please note that I have two thumpers. The one I am wanting to fix is a 2009...the other one is a 1996 Savage 650. Today I am gonna take the old one for a spin and see if I detect the same or similar "hesitation" as described in the leadoff post to this thread. So far, my recollection is that the old one runs more smoothly and certainly starts easier than the newer one. (Riding the old one is just for my curiosity.) As always, I really appreciate all the input and suggestions..You guys are great... :) |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by srinath on 04/07/20 at 05:25:24 Take out the battery and battery box. Then the air box side rubber boot come out and the carbs come out with the cable still attached. You can actually put a little cardboard box on top of the motor, rest the carb on that and pull the float off right there. Replace the bolts with allen heads so you can take off the float bowl without removing anything. You need to poke a wire through the pilot. Welding supply issue cleaner works, or I use those wire tie's that are essentially a bit of thin steel wire with a plastic coating. You scrape off that plastic coating and the wire will get in the jet. Of course you can also unhook the cable and hoses and get it onto a bench like a civilized person. I have a video my son shot of us doing this. Let me see if we can find it and we can send it to you. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/20 at 09:34:10 If you question the health of the petcock, use Prime, sometimes that makes it better. If the gas is from last year, change it. Ive had this problem,, |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/07/20 at 09:38:53 Srinath: will try to remove carb soon using your tips.... "Guy" I Will use Prime when riding from now on. I only use non-ethanol gas and have owned the bike for about 2 months now, maybe a bit longer. thank you both. :) |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/20 at 10:13:34 non-ethanol gas Well,, Thats a really good answer.. Check your oil, too. A split diaphragm often allows fuel into the carb, slowly flooding it, if the float valve is leaky, and down the throat and into an open intake,, and drips into oil.. It has been seen several times, and gas cut oil just can't be the best.. Glad you're being patient. takes a while to get through this kinda stuff via a forum. TONS of experience here and everyone wants you riding. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by srinath on 04/07/20 at 10:42:09 To clean a carb - you really want ethanol. All those carb cleaners at their core are ethanol or other alcohol. Heet has methanol. Iso-heet has iso propyl alcohol. They clean better than most anything else on the planet. You would be better off running regular ethanol filled gas with extra alcohol in it. What you can not do is to let it sit over winter with the alcohol rich gas. I'd ride it regularly ride long but run regular gas and extra alcohol in it. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by stewmills on 04/07/20 at 12:05:08 Just remember that it is not suggested that you use the spray carb cleaner and let it sit on plastic or rubber parts, just the metal. Some of these cleaners can be caustic and eat at plastics and rubber making it dry and brittle prematurely. No biggie if you are squirting it in a hole and brushing it clean or such immediately, but don't just soak non-metal stuff in it. If you do get it on anything non-metal, you can douse it with a good helping of WD40 to wash away the cleaner. However, you want to be careful not to soak the diaphragm slide or carb body in WD40 or cleaner and not clean it off with a lint free towel (requires that you remove the diaphragm). Oily substances left on the diaphragm slide or carb body will cause debris to stick here and cause a sticky diaphragm slide. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/20 at 15:50:08 Oily substances left on the diaphragm slide Up to and including something so common as fingerprints.. |
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Title: Re: Soliciting Paid Assistance Post by Bokobob on 04/08/20 at 00:43:35 Many thanks for so much additional info. Guys, I am out of my league and do not understand much of it... I have another major :'( sudden bike problem and will not post on this thread until later on. I will start another thread on a separate problem.. Thank you, |
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