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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Are side rails structural?
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Message started by IslandRoad on 03/21/20 at 00:44:10

Title: Are side rails structural?
Post by IslandRoad on 03/21/20 at 00:44:10

I removed my side rails some time ago (mostly for aesthetic reasons).

I was doing some fiddling with the bike the other day and the side rails crossed my mind. They are hefty! And they bolt into some reinforced areas at the front and middle of the fender. It dawned on me they might be there to reinforce the strength of the frame under the pillion seat. I have carried a passenger many times without the side rails on (with no problem), but I just had one of those 'holy sh!t' moments when I realised it may not be safe!

Anyone know if this is the case, or have thoughts/experience to share?

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by zipidachimp on 03/21/20 at 01:25:38

not likely!
http://blog.leatherup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Cafe-Racer-Suzuki-S40-aka-the-Savage-Red-by-Ryca-Motors-2.jpg
cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/20 at 01:35:55

You Know it's a lot stiffer with them on.
Is it strong enough
Without them?
Worst case scenario
Heavy passenger
Hit a big bump
Might not work out so great..

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by srinath on 03/21/20 at 06:17:25

Categorically - NO.

The side rails are a load on the rear fender, not a stiffener for that fender.
The thick part of the fender is at the bolts to the frame and it continues under the passenger seat. The side rails bolt onto the fender and no part of the frame. The side rails/back rest add to load without adding to stiffness of the rear.

If you had a heavy passenger with or without whole rails, and hit a bump, where do you think the failure will be - right at those bolts on end the frame. That will not be prevented by the rail, and the weight of the rails will add to the shock load.

IMHO removing those rails also makes it look a lot better. Those little turnsignals can be fitted into the holes vacated by the rail so can an 50cal ammo can.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by norm92de on 03/21/20 at 09:30:47

That is one beautiful Cafe Racer. Absolutely gorgeous.!! :)

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by IslandRoad on 03/21/20 at 13:53:16

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm gonna have a good look at the fender/frame connections next time the bikes on a stand, and acquaint myself better with it all sits together.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by bobert_FSO on 03/21/20 at 14:22:07

I remember seeing some earlier posts about this. It was mentioned that without the rails, people have seen the tail of the fender "wag" side to side quite a bit under acceleration. I would consider them structural. If you don't like them chromed, maybe you could scuff them up and paint them the fender color. Or maybe chop the fender and move the tail light assembly elsewhere to get the weight off the tail of the fender.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by IslandRoad on 03/21/20 at 14:34:48

6D606D6A7D7B0F0 wrote:

That's a really interesting point! I've already moved the tail light and turn signals ... but I moved them to the licence plate holder under the fender. I probably added weight with the bracket I made. I, and other members of the forum have had the licence plate crack across the bolt holes. Actually mine once broke right off. I assumed it was due to vibration.

The Savage is essentially a budget bike, so I assume Suzuki wouldn't be putting two big chunks of steel on there for no reason.

Given the comment above from srinath, and what you've just pointed out, perhaps they're there to prevent lateral movement.

Or as JOG put it, so succinctly ... they basically make the fender stiffer.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by SoC on 03/21/20 at 17:14:56

My only experience was with removal of saddlebag supports, where you need to partially unbolt the rails. When reinstalling the bolts to them you could affect fender alignment slightly when you tightened things up. There was some play in the whole that stiffened when it was all tight.

There is re-inforcement in the weld up of the fender, but in the end it's all just overlaid and tweeked sheet metal. I suspect that's pretty strong if you don't have a B-seat, if you do and have a load on the rear of the fender (i.e. passenger) they add a good mount of horizontal support along it's length. That's an awful large amount of steel for looks only.

If you have the sissybar and your pasenger leans back on it, that could be quite some leverage applied to the rear of fender below the high point of the arc of curve. That force could act to bow the sides of fender and cause a failure (collapse). So I suspect it adds strength not only lengthwise to down force but also to stiffen side walls laterally.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/20 at 21:21:35

My daughter accelerated away heavy on the gas. The tag was wagging side to side so hard it was a blur. It eventually cracked..
Rails were on it.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by srinath on 03/22/20 at 04:05:51

The fender bolts to the frame. 1/4" past that, the frame ends. The passenger seat is carried entirely by the fender. The side rails bolt to the fender and no part of the frame In fact the frame is atleast 3" away ending before the back end of the rider seat. If the tail was wagging side to side, rails or no rails its the fender and its thick as Druck inner bracing that has started to give. Rails wont slow it down, and may accelerate its demise.

The rails were presumably originally fitted to allow for a sissy bar which does need to be beefy to keep your passenger from taking an unscheduled dismount. Back in those days those big tall sissy bars were all the rage, with Yamaha even selling an extra tall one for those maxims from 82 to 87 IIRC. I had one and a bunch of maxim people were asking for it.

I've hacked many of these and almost the first thing I do is toss that. Only reason I haven't done it on my sons bike yet, he's learning and if he's not stopping I can use that to provide some "braking" Now however he's slamming on the brake I'll need to get him to feather it, as soo as he figures it out, off this thing goes.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by IslandRoad on 03/22/20 at 13:28:23

@Srinath, I origionally assumed the rails were there to provide support for the optional sissy bar and pack rack. As SoC mentioned, there would be a lot of pressure if the passenger leaned back. What got me thinking more is the fact Suzuki make two kinds of rails (one with sissy bar support, and one without) and both are chunky. But the thickness of the non-sissy option might just be a matter of consistency in tooling for production.

My concerns have been alleviated at this point. Neither I nor my psrtner are particularly heavy,, but I will inspect under there anyway just for peace of mind. :)

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/20 at 17:26:27

Give it a look when you change the tire.
You've proven it's strong enough for what you're doing.
You could have her follow you and accelerate away hard from a stop, run the gears, get on it, and ask her if the fender is going nuts.
Mine shook the license plate to ruin, even with the braces.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by srinath on 03/23/20 at 14:28:26

6359464B444E78454B4E2A0 wrote:

Nope, around 2005 people decided the huge A$$$ looked like shittete on motorcycles, but not on J-Lo, so then Kim Hardashian showed up with the A$$$ that took up 3 zip codes and we all recoiled in horror, and where is Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan when you need to unsee Kim's FaaaatA$$$... sorry, gone, converted to asslam.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Are side rails structural?
Post by IslandRoad on 03/24/20 at 00:53:35

@Srinath .. haha ... I have to admit, as I've been working in slimming the bike down, the biggest stumbling block is ... what to do about that rear end!

Title: Lightening.
Post by srinath on 03/24/20 at 05:19:59

Toss all that crap in the trash, including the bracing of the fender, along with the idiotic muffler and the brace.
Like this - one I did 12 yrs ago.

BTW that is the stock rear fender with the spot welds holding the brace in the fender ground off. The stock airbox and electrics etc etc, only tail light is swapped for that weirdly named one that rhymes with jimpclick.

Take off the muffler and hack off the brace and put a turnout and strap it to the heat shield with a piece of chicken wire. Would add to the "feral" look of the thing.

Cool.
Srinath.